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Thread: The War on Guns Is Lost

  1. #31
    https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/s...81410056372237
    & https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/s...94423178059975
    {Spike Cohen @RealSpikeCohen | 16 December 2023}

    The best part about the gun debate is that it's increasingly just academic.

    Our victory is assured.

    Put aside Bruen, or Heller, or McDonald, or any of the other gun rights victories in courts.

    Put aside the massive increases in gun ownership, in every demographic.

    Right now, there are more guns than people in the US.

    Tomorrow, that gun/people ratio will grow, as it has for years, and shows no sign of stopping.

    Every day, 3D manufacturing technology continues to improve.

    You're already able to make a functioning gun at home, using free, publicly-available printing files.

    As that technology improves, we will reach the gun singularity, wherein you can make a gun at home of the same or better quality than you'd get from a manufacturer.

    Soon after, you'll be able to print better weapons at home than the meandering bureaucracy at the Pentagon can procure.

    We won't need to be terrorist groups or cartels to get machine guns from the CIA and ATF. We'll just make our own, and our stuff will be better than theirs.

    And thanks to Tor nodes, VPNs and other privacy tech, they won't even be able to know who's making them, or where they are.

    Yes, I believe we're winning the academic debate.

    Yes, I think that the court decisions will still largely be in our favor.

    Yes, I think more and more states will repeal their own gun laws, nullify bad federal gun laws, and forbid municipalities from implementing new ones.

    Yes, I think the public is increasingly realizing the futility of trying to ban guns, when criminals don't care if you ban their guns.

    But ultimately, it doesn't matter.

    Recreational drugs that aren't alcohol are still as illegal as they were 50 yeard ago, and tens of billions are spent every year to wage a war against them.

    And they're easier to get than ever before.

    And you can't 3D print your own drugs at home.

    (Yet.)

    Right now, saying you can't own a gun is as effective as saying you can't own a bag of weed.

    Soon enough, it'll be as effective as saying you can't own a paper airplane.

    And when we reach critical mass, guns will become like weed; effectively decriminalized almost everywhere, despite whatever the feds have to say about it at that point.

    Rest assured, we are winning.

    So enjoy the debate, because it's little more than entertainment anyway.

    "But they banned guns in [insert cherry-picked country here] and their murder rate is lower!"

    1. I could cherry-pick countries with strict gun laws, whose murder rates are several times higher than ours. El Salvador, Jamaica, Nigeria. So many cherries to pick.

    2. The country you cherry-picked had a relative handful of guns that were all recorded and easy to confiscate. We have more guns than people.

    3. Going back to my original point, guns will soon be easy to make, at home, everywhere. Including your cherry-picked country.

    4. Read this thread by @MorosKostas about international homicide rate comparisons before bringing the subject up again:



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Signs of Civil Disobedience in Illinois Gun Registration Efforts
    https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2...efforts-n77716
    {Cam Edwards | 27 November 2023}

    [...]
    ↓↓↓

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Report: Only 1% of Illinois Gun Owners Comply with ‘Assault Weapons’ Ban

    https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendm...t-weapons-ban/

    AWR HAWKINS 16 Jan 2024

    WBEZ reported that only one percent of individuals holding Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) cards had complied with Illinois’s “assault weapons” ban registration requirement as of January 11, 2024.

    Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker (D) signed the “assault weapons” ban into law on January 10, 2023, after which his office released a statement that said, in part, “The new law also requires existing owners of semi-automatic rifles to register their ownership, ensuring that law enforcement knows the location of these weapons of war and who to hold accountable if they fall into the wrong hands.”

    Owners of firearms, which Democrats categorize as “assault weapons,” were required to register their guns before January 1, 2024. WBEZ’s report on compliance as of January 11, 2024, shows that there has been little to no additional registration by the deadline, as the Chicago Sun-Times reported that “only 1% of people with firearm owners identification cards in the state had registered.”

    The Sun-Times spoke with Illinois State Police about the non-compliance, who said, “Decisions on how to enforce [the ‘assault weapons’ ban] will be up to each law enforcement and prosecutorial jurisdiction within Illinois.”

    On December 29, 2023, the Courthouse News Service noted that enforcement of the “assault weapons” ban largely falls on the sheriffs of Illinois’s 102 counties. And just days after the “assault weapons” ban was signed, Breitbart News pointed out that 80 sheriffs made it clear that they would not enforce it.



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  5. #33
    https://twitter.com/YZYPrints_/statu...23928428044768

  6. #34
    https://twitter.com/LibertyCappy/sta...76146400071876

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/LibertyCappy/sta...76146400071876

    120 that they know of.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/YZYPrints_/statu...23928428044768
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  9. #37

  10. #38

  11. #39

  12. #40
    THREAD: Trump Bans Bump Stocks [UPDATE: struck down by SCOTUS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://x.com/shannonrwatts/status/1801975437381316721


    They're coping and seething and seething and coping ...

    The Group Helping the Supreme Court Rewrite America’s Gun Laws Is Worse Than the NRA
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...mp-stocks.html
    {Dahlia Lithwick & Mark Joseph Stern | 15 June 2024}

    [bold & underline emphasis added - OB]

    The Supreme Court struck down the federal ban on bump stocks on Friday, legalizing a device that can effectively transform semiautomatic rifles into machine guns. Predictably, the court split 6–3, with the Republican-appointed justices carving a massive loophole in federal law at the behest of the firearms industry. Justice Clarence Thomas’ majority opinion is rooted in historical misrepresentations and utterly implausible manipulations of the statutory text. It enables future mass shooters to equip their AR-15s with an attachment that increases the rate of fire exponentially, to up to 800 rounds per minute.

    Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discussed the decision on Saturday’s episode of Amicus. They were joined by David Pucino, an expert in firearms law and legal director of the Giffords Law Center. Their conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

    Dahlia Lithwick: Justice Thomas makes the claim that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms did a complete 180 on how it viewed bump stocks, suddenly changing their minds after the Las Vegas massacre and deciding that, actually, they are machine guns. That’s just not true, right?

    Mark Joseph Stern: This idea that ATF said bump stocks were 100 percent legal, then turned around in response to political pressure and said they were unlawful all along—that’s a misrepresentation of history. What really happened was that gunmakers were developing various tools to help make semiautomatic rifles fire at a higher rate. ATF looked at these and said some were potentially legal while others were not, on a case-by-case basis, without making a formal determination at the agency level. Some were snuck through under false pretenses as an accommodation for disability. And when ATF decided to take a holistic look at this issue after the Las Vegas shooting, it decided that, when bump stocks operate a certain way—basically, enabling automatic fire—they are illegal.

    That, to me, is doing exactly what an agency is supposed to do. ATF looked at the facts on the ground. It looked at its mandate from Congress. It looked at its own past decisions. And it harmonized them as best it could in accordance with what experts at the agency say the facts are. To see Thomas slander ATF as caving to political pressure, then using this charge to overrule the determination of ATF’s own firearm experts—it seemed to me the height of arrogance.

    David Pucino: I think it’s important to remember that there was really careful work going on at ATF to make these determinations on a case-by-case basis. The agency was faced with a problem: Folks in the firearm industry were trying to get around the laws on the books. When an agency comes out and says, “This is what the law is,” the industry is going to try to get around it. And the agency has to decide if they’ll succeed.

    What’s really striking here is that ATF was doing that engagement, and the Supreme Court came in and usurped it here in a way that’s totally unworkable if you apply it beyond the favored political constituency of the gun industry. It’s absurd to have the Supreme Court putting all this work into deciding the mechanics of a firearm and whether it meets the statute and trying to overrule an agency that made those same determinations. That’s not a workable way to do government. If every difficult regulatory decision made in this country that might’ve gone one way or another goes up to the Supreme Court, that’s all the justices would ever be doing. You’d need a thousand Supreme Courts to handle it.

    The volume of work that comes out of the administrative state is not something that the Supreme Court can analyze in this way, at least not in any sort of reasonable manner, and I don’t think they would ever even pretend to. But what you have here is a particular, favored constituency that is bringing these questions. And then, all of a sudden, the court decides to drop everything and figure out how this gun works. Now, the way ATF does that is to sit down and actually look at the firearm. They’re going to bring in their experts and make those determinations. But the way the Supreme Court does it is they look at an amicus brief by the Firearms Policy Coalition and co-sign it.

    Lithwick: That’s the group that created the six graphics and a gif that Justice Thomas used to illustrate how semiautomatic rifles work. Why was it notable that he copied and pasted their material into a Supreme Court opinion?

    Pucino: The National Rifle Association is not what it used to be, and that’s created a gap. And what has gone into the gap are a bunch of further-right organizations that are trying to take the mantle of the NRA by being as extreme as possible. Foremost among them is the Firearms Policy Coalition. Friday was a real moment for them. It’s one of the most extreme groups; it uses extraordinarily violent rhetoric. And it’s putting out material that’s getting blessed by a majority opinion of the Supreme Court. You have to take a step back and look at where we are—I don’t think that’s anything you could imagine happening even 10 years ago.

    Lithwick: You’re both hitting on a big theme of this term, which is the Supreme Court making it impossible for agencies to do pretty much anything. And it seems awfully important when you have Clarence Thomas substituting his judgment for ATF’s with what Justice Sotomayor pointedly calls “six diagrams and an animation.” The majority was just like, I know everything, here’s a Peanuts comic strip. It seems as if Thomas was trying to explain his tortured interpretation to the public, to make it accessible, but eliding the agency’s own expert views in the process.

    Pucino: The idea that you can get the amount of expertise that goes into technical determinations made by ATF by simply looking at briefs and diagrams—I mean, just, no. Obviously not. The amount of time that even clerks, let alone justices, require to do a deep dive on these issues, the depth of understanding they’re going to need—it won’t come anywhere near that of an expert who’s working on this full time. This is their whole job. It’s what they’re trained to do.

    Stern: You can really only justify Thomas’ reading, in my view, if you start from the conclusion that the bump stock ban is unlawful and work your way backward, butchering the text to mean something it just doesn’t. This isn’t how ordinary people use the English language and, as Sotomayor showed, it isn’t how members of Congress who voted on this law used English when they wrote it in 1934. If “textualism” can be deployed in such an underhanded and cynical way, I don’t think it’s really getting us anywhere. It’s just another pretext for the Supreme Court to reach whatever result it wants.



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  14. #41
    That is good that it got shot down.

    This is a good example of the downside of Trump not knowing the Constitution if it hit him upside the head. It makes him too easily led astray in an emergency, because he doesn’t have those constitutional principles to rely on when pressed. One of the many reasons he needs Rand in his ear.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    That is good that it got shot down.

    This is a good example of the downside of Trump not knowing the Constitution if it hit him upside the head. It makes him too easily led astray in an emergency, because he doesn’t have those constitutional principles to rely on when pressed. One of the many reasons he needs Rand in his ear.
    What, 24/7/365? Will he have that amount of time to listen to him? And/or will he take Rand's advice 100% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 30% of the time?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    That is good that it got shot down.

    This is a good example of the downside of Trump not knowing the Constitution if it hit him upside the head. It makes him too easily led astray in an emergency, because he doesn’t have those constitutional principles to rely on when pressed. One of the many reasons he needs Rand in his ear.
    You give Trump way too much credit.

    It isn't that he's ignorant of the Constitution. He hates the Constitution. He sees it as an impediment to his authority. And anyone who wants him to limit his actions to what's constitutional is his enemy.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You give Trump way too much credit.

    It isn't that he's ignorant of the Constitution. He hates the Constitution. He sees it as an impediment to his authority. And anyone who wants him to limit his actions to what's constitutional is his enemy.

    Not only did Trump want to suspend the Constitution when Tom Massie wanted a roll count on that Covid Cares Act, he wanted to suspend the Constitution yet again over the election.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Not only did Trump want to suspend the Constitution when Tom Massie wanted a roll count on that Covid Cares Act, he wanted to suspend the Constitution yet again over the election.
    That is a lie.
    Even Massie didn't claim Trump wanted to suspend the Constitution, and what Massie did say about CoG was provably false on the basis of logic and the facts.

    And he was 100% right about the stolen election, the usurpers suspended the Constitution by stealing it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You give Trump way too much credit.

    It isn't that he's ignorant of the Constitution. He hates the Constitution. He sees it as an impediment to his authority. And anyone who wants him to limit his actions to what's constitutional is his enemy.
    Utter hogwash.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Utter hogwash.
    Gee, thanks for the suggestion. But none of us could do that as well as you do.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is a lie.
    Even Massie didn't claim Trump wanted to suspend the Constitution, and what Massie did say about CoG was provably false on the basis of logic and the facts.

    And he was 100% right about the stolen election, the usurpers suspended the Constitution by stealing it.

    More credible:

    1. Trump and @Swordsmyth

    or

    2. Tom Massie
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    More credible:

    1. Trump and @Swordsmyth

    or

    2. Tom Massie
    Facts and logic.
    If they wanted to declare CoG they would have said they couldn't pass a necessary bill with Congress out of town and unable to return due to lockdowns.
    If they wanted to declare CoG they would have used Massie's obstruction of the plan to pass the bill without a quorum to declare Congress was unable to function because of Massie's actions.

    And It's simply a lie that even Massie claimed what you said he claimed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Facts and logic.
    If they wanted to declare CoG they would have said they couldn't pass a necessary bill with Congress out of town and unable to return due to lockdowns.
    If they wanted to declare CoG they would have used Massie's obstruction of the plan to pass the bill without a quorum to declare Congress was unable to function because of Massie's actions.

    And It's simply a lie that even Massie claimed what you said he claimed.
    Where are the facts and logic? All I see are conjecture, suppositions and a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Congressional rules work.

    Massie showed up, preventing the Speaker from passing anything without a quorum, and she could have done Trump's will and suspended the Constitution because he acted and did the one thing that could prevent it?

    But of course...
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-17-2024 at 07:39 AM.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Where are the facts and logic? All I see are conjecture, suppositions and a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Congressional rules work.

    Massie showed up, preventing the Speaker from passing anything without a quorum, and she could have done Trump's will and suspended the Constitution because he acted and did the one thing that could prevent it?

    But of course...
    His action couldn't prevent CoG, his action either didn't affect it at all (proving Trump didn't want it because he didn't call for it and only he could) or it actually set up the conditions for it by making Congress "unable to function in an emergency". (proving Trump didn't want it because he didn't call for it and only he could)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Somebody's getting overtime this morning.

    Pity nobody's paying for original material, rather than repetitious spam.

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