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Thread: Today's Federal tax on earned wages may violate our Constitution.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    you asked -- "what change?"

    So, now you acknowledge the law. Ok. And perhaps you acknowledge that the law changed.

    What remains to discuss?
    What I acknowledged was the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment as being the law.

    And now you ask "What remains to discuss?" I stated that in the title of the thread "Today's Federal tax on earned wages may violate our Constitution", and in the OP:

    Seems relatively obvious when considering the above stated FACTS, the contention made by some that today's federal tax on a working person's earned wages may very well violate our federal constitution and has great merit for the following reasons:


    Today's federal tax on earned wages is not in harmony with the original objective of adopting the Sixteenth Amendment which was to allow for a federal tax on “unearned” incomes [stocks, bonds, etc.] as can be contrasted from “earned” wages.


    Today’s federal tax on a working person’s earned wages takes the form of a direct tax, is not being apportioned, and thus violates the constitutional protection requiring direct taxes to be apportioned.


    Finally, and in respect of the Sixteenth Amendment and calculating today’s federal tax on earned wages “ . . . it becomes essential to distinguish between what is and what is not "income," as the term is there used; and to apply the distinction, as cases arise, according to truth and substance, without regard to form. Congress cannot by any definition it may adopt conclude the matter, since it cannot by legislation alter the Constitution, from which alone it derives its power to legislate, and within whose limitations alone that power can be lawfully exercised.” EISNER v. MACOMBER , 252 U.S. 189 (1920)


    Today’s federal tax on earned wages does not follow the set rules laid out in EISNER V. MACOMBER to calculate and distinguish what portion, if any, of a working person’s earn wages falls within the definition of “incomes” as the term is used in the Sixteenth Amendment.
    Last edited by johnwk; 03-24-2023 at 11:07 AM.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Yes, you can bury your head in the sand and pretend there hasn't been a Cabal infiltrating this country from before day one. If you want to assert that the 16th Amendment was the product of representation of the American people, please show the historical evidence of the mass public outcry that created the super-majority required to pass that amendment. What was the crisis? What was happening in the US from 1911 to 1913 that was causing main-street Americans to cry out for a direct, unapportioned national income tax?

    The Cabal's retort is, "We played the right chess-moves and we won through technicality, but a win is a win." But that's a two-way street... if we want to get that technical, we can call a Con-con, dissolve the Federal government, convene grand juries, appoint special-prosecutors, and start filing charges against all Federal crooks in State courts, while we re-constitute our national government. Yep, that's a question of distributed coordination and political force. But if the Cabal wants to make this a contest of force, then let it be so. We The People will win that contest!
    The people birthed the Cabal, and the Cabal is birthing the people. It was always a plot. A plot against Altar, Throne and Hearth. We are late in the progress it has made.. and it is coming for the person last - after it was done with the Church, the King, and the Family... it's coming for our very humanity.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    What I acknowledged was the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment as being the law.

    And now you ask "What remains to discuss?" I stated that in the title of the thread "Today's Federal tax on earned wages may violate our Constitution", and in the OP:
    It doesn't violate the Constitution. The Constitution MADE IT HAPPEN.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    It doesn't violate the Constitution. The Constitution MADE IT HAPPEN.
    How do you arrive at that conclusion?


    Today's federal tax on earned wages is not in harmony with the original objective of adopting the Sixteenth Amendment which was to allow for a federal tax on “unearned” incomes [stocks, bonds, etc.] as can be contrasted from “earned” wages.


    Today’s federal tax on a working person’s earned wages takes the form of a direct tax, is not being apportioned, and thus violates the constitutional protection requiring direct taxes to be apportioned.


    Finally, and in respect of the Sixteenth Amendment and calculating today’s federal tax on earned wages “ . . . it becomes essential to distinguish between what is and what is not "income," as the term is there used; and to apply the distinction, as cases arise, according to truth and substance, without regard to form. Congress cannot by any definition it may adopt conclude the matter, since it cannot by legislation alter the Constitution, from which alone it derives its power to legislate, and within whose limitations alone that power can be lawfully exercised.” EISNER v. MACOMBER , 252 U.S. 189 (1920)


    Today’s federal tax on earned wages does not follow the set rules laid out in EISNER V. MACOMBER to calculate and distinguish what portion, if any, of a working person’s earn wages falls within the definition of “incomes” as the term is used in the Sixteenth Amendment.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    How do you arrive at that conclusion?


    Today's federal tax on earned wages is not in harmony with the original objective of adopting the Sixteenth Amendment which was to allow for a federal tax on “unearned” incomes [stocks, bonds, etc.] as can be contrasted from “earned” wages.


    Today’s federal tax on a working person’s earned wages takes the form of a direct tax, is not being apportioned, and thus violates the constitutional protection requiring direct taxes to be apportioned.


    Finally, and in respect of the Sixteenth Amendment and calculating today’s federal tax on earned wages “ . . . it becomes essential to distinguish between what is and what is not "income," as the term is there used; and to apply the distinction, as cases arise, according to truth and substance, without regard to form. Congress cannot by any definition it may adopt conclude the matter, since it cannot by legislation alter the Constitution, from which alone it derives its power to legislate, and within whose limitations alone that power can be lawfully exercised.” EISNER v. MACOMBER , 252 U.S. 189 (1920)


    Today’s federal tax on earned wages does not follow the set rules laid out in EISNER V. MACOMBER to calculate and distinguish what portion, if any, of a working person’s earn wages falls within the definition of “incomes” as the term is used in the Sixteenth Amendment.
    The only reason for the Eisner ruling was the stock divided was not even really a dividend, and it wasn't income either, it was essentially a forward stock split accomplished by issuing new shares to all.
    If there was any real gain in that dividend, including an increase in Macomber's ownership, which didn't happen due to the nature of it, the court would have ruled the other way. So it's totally inapplicable to the 16th Amendment powers. That's the only reason she won, and the only reason she brought the case.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    The only reason for the Eisner ruling was the stock divided was not even really a dividend, and it wasn't income either, it was essentially a forward stock split accomplished by issuing new shares to all.
    If there was any real gain in that dividend, including an increase in Macomber's ownership, which didn't happen due to the nature of it, the court would have ruled the other way. So it's totally inapplicable to the 16th Amendment powers. That's the only reason she won, and the only reason she brought the case.
    Why didn't you answer the question? How do you arrive at the conclusion that the Sixteenth Amendment was intended to allow a tax on earned wages?

    Today's federal tax on earned wages is not in harmony with the original objective of adopting the Sixteenth Amendment which was to allow for a federal tax on “unearned” incomes [stocks, bonds, etc.] as can be contrasted from “earned” wages.


    Today’s federal tax on a working person’s earned wages takes the form of a direct tax, is not being apportioned, and thus violates the constitutional protection requiring direct taxes to be apportioned.


    Finally, and in respect of the Sixteenth Amendment and calculating a federal tax on incomes, “ . . . it becomes essential to distinguish between what is and what is not "income," as the term is there used; and to apply the distinction, as cases arise, according to truth and substance, without regard to form. Congress cannot by any definition it may adopt conclude the matter, since it cannot by legislation alter the Constitution, from which alone it derives its power to legislate, and within whose limitations alone that power can be lawfully exercised.” EISNER v. MACOMBER , 252 U.S. 189 (1920)


    So, how did you arrive at the conclusion that the Sixteenth Amendment was intended to allow a tax on earned wages, and that such a tax would not violate the provisions of our Constitution?

    .

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Why didn't you answer the question? How do you arrive at the conclusion that the Sixteenth Amendment was intended to allow a tax on earned wages?
    .
    Seriously, do you have a crayon stuck in your brain like Homer Simpson or something? It's what it did. It's what is says.

    Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by the legislature of three-fourths of the several States, shall be valid to all intents and purposes as a part of the Constitution:

    "ARTICLE XVI. The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    The people birthed the Cabal,
    Well, yes, the Antichrist and his Whore are made for each other. But We The People should be a righteous people who follow God and reject the Antichrist's Cabal. And I prefer to believe our Founding Fathers were men of faith and were guided by God, rather than to believe they were trapped in the devil's snares. But maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist...

    it's coming for our very humanity.
    Exactly, which is why all of this really is biblical in nature. This really is, as Q put it, GOOD AND EVIL. So, all the "technicalities" of how the 16th Amendment was or was not passed are not interesting to me. The only thing that interests me is THE REAL.

    Judgment Day is coming.

    Many are going to be caught up short, especially the ones who insist on laughing at their imminent Doom...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    Ohio

    never

    ratified
    Even if this were true (and it isn't), 41 other states did. Since only 36 states' ratifications were needed your ignorant claim about Ohio is, like the rest of your posts, garbage.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Even if this were true (and it isn't), 41 other states did. Since only 36 states' ratifications were needed your ignorant claim about Ohio is, like the rest of your posts, garbage.
    It would falsify the claim that it was ratified in Feb. 1913

    Maybe you can help me out on the other thread of discussion -- what was the great national crisis affecting the main-street American in 1911-1913, for which he was raising a nationwide grassroots outcry for a direct, unapportioned, national income tax? I mean, there was a 75% super-majority of Americans who wanted the 16th Amendment to be passed, right?

    Right?
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Seriously, do you have a crayon stuck in your brain like Homer Simpson or something? It's what it did. It's what is says.

    Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by the legislature of three-fourths of the several States, shall be valid to all intents and purposes as a part of the Constitution:

    "ARTICLE XVI. The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
    Well, I see you quoted the amendment correctly and it certainly does not say:


    ”The Congress shall have power to lay and collect direct taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”


    Nor does the Sixteenth Amendment declare:


    “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on earned wages, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”



    So, just what was your point in posting the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment?


    .

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Well, I see you quoted the amendment correctly and it certainly does not say:


    ”The Congress shall have power to lay and collect direct taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”


    Nor does the Sixteenth Amendment declare:


    “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on earned wages, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”



    So, just what was your point in posting the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment?


    .
    without apportionment = direct.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Well, yes, the Antichrist and his Whore are made for each other. But We The People should be a righteous people who follow God and reject the Antichrist's Cabal. And I prefer to believe our Founding Fathers were men of faith and were guided by God, rather than to believe they were trapped in the devil's snares. But maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist...



    Exactly, which is why all of this really is biblical in nature. This really is, as Q put it, GOOD AND EVIL. So, all the "technicalities" of how the 16th Amendment was or was not passed are not interesting to me. The only thing that interests me is THE REAL.

    Judgment Day is coming.

    Many are going to be caught up short, especially the ones who insist on laughing at their imminent Doom...
    Some of them were men of faith, and most felt guided by God (as they understood that) - in the Freemasonic manner... but that is heresy, because only the Church was instituted by Christ Himself with the power from the Holy Spirit to bind and loose, and with His Vicar, the Bishop of Rome, who coronates Kings and Emperors in sacramental rites... this is what was done, and it is what they sought to usurp. It is what preserved righteousness, and the Illuminati, Jews and Masons overthrew it in the American and French revolutions. The door was open to Satan, and He pushed it open gradually... until it is wide open as the road to perdition that is Man deciding for himself what is Right and what is Wrong - the very Original Sin that cursed us all.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    without apportionment = direct.
    Correct. So?

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Correct. So?
    ergo, it has the power to collect ( direct = without apportionment ) taxes on incomes from ( whatever source derived = earned ).

    that is all. If you can't understand that, I refuse to speak to you any further.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    ergo, it has the power to collect ( direct = without apportionment ) taxes on incomes from ( whatever source derived = earned ).

    that is all. If you can't understand that, I refuse to speak to you any further.

    I see you are back to applying the Humpty Dumpty theory of language to the meaning of our Constitution:

    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less.”

    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master-that’s all.”


    But, however hard you try, the words in the Sixteenth Amendment remain the same and do not say:

    ”The Congress shall have power to lay and collect direct taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”


    Nor does the Sixteenth Amendment declare:


    “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on earned wages, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”



  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    It would falsify the claim that it was ratified in Feb. 1913
    Nope. By the end of February 1913 39 states (excluding Ohio) had ratified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixtee...s_Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Maybe you can help me out on the other thread of discussion -- what was the great national crisis affecting the main-street American in 1911-1913, for which he was raising a nationwide grassroots outcry for a direct, unapportioned, national income tax? I mean, there was a 75% super-majority of Americans who wanted the 16th Amendment to be passed, right?

    Right?
    Nope. First of all, a tax on pay-for-work has never been held to be a direct tax. Second, the only time a federal income tax has been held to be a direct tax was the 1895 Pollock case, but even there the Court limited its holding to investment income (e.g., dividends and interest) and noted that a tax on pay-for-work was constitutional.

    The outcry for an amendment was to overturn Pollock and subject investment income to the income tax. Since constitutional amendments aren't put to a popular vote, I have no idea whether a super majority of Americans wanted the amendment, but more than a super majority of state legislatures did.

    President Taft put it this way in his message to Congress:

    The decision of the Supreme Court in the income-tax cases deprived the National Government of a power which, by reason of previous decisions of the court, it was generally supposed that Government had. It is undoubtedly a power the National Government ought to have. It might be indispensable to the nation's life in great crises. Although I have not considered a constitutional amendment as necessary to the exercise of certain phases of this power, a mature consideration has satisfied me that an amendment is the only proper course for its establishment to its full extent. I therefore recommend to the Congress that both Houses, by a two-thirds vote, shall propose an amendment to the Constitution conferring the power to levy an income tax upon the National Government without apportionment among the States in proportion to population...

    It is said the difficulty and delay in securing the approval of three-fourths of the States will destroy all chance of adopting the amendment. Of course, no one can speak with certainty upon this point, but I have become convinced that a great majority of the people of this country are in favor of vesting the National Government with power to levy an income tax, and that they will secure the adoption of the amendment in the States, if proposed to them.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Nor does the Sixteenth Amendment declare:


    “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on earned wages, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”
    Nor does it say "The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived (other than wages), without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    .........:
    Why are taking all this time to post this stuff?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  24. #50

    Harmonizing the 16th Amendment and Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Nor does it say "The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived (other than wages), without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."


    Nor does the Sixteenth Amendment declare:

    ”The Congress shall have power to lay and collect direct taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

    Now, let us keep in mind that on June 17th, 1909, Senator Brown offered the following Joint Resolution (S. J. R. 39) to amend the Constitution relative to TAXES ON INCOMES:

    ”Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of both Houses concurring), That the following section be submitted to the legislatures of the several States, which, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the States, shall be valid and binding as a part of the Constitution of the United States:

    “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect direct taxes on incomes without apportionment among the several States according to population." CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ___ SENATE, June 17, 1909, Page 3377



    But the wording "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect direct taxes on incomes without apportionment", etc., never made it into the final version of the Sixteenth Amendment, nor is there any wording in the Constitution repealing the command that “No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken”

    With the above in mind it is important to note that under the rules which govern constitutional construction, in situations where there appears to be constitutional provisions that are inconsistent with each other, as is the current case in which there is no repeal of the constitutional requirement that "direct" taxes must be apportioned, while Congress is granted power to lay and collect a taxes on incomes without apportionment, the two provisions must be interpreted to harmonize them in such a manner that effect should be given to each.

    In the instant case, harmonizing is to be found in a tax on incomes laid by Congress so long as it does not take the form of a direct tax, which then would require an apportionment.

    And how do we carry out the legislative intent of the Sixteenth Amendment and have those with un-earned income contribute a share to the funding of our federal government while likewise preserving the rule that any direct tax must be apportioned?

    One way is by laying and collecting a tax on incomes realized under a privilege of doing business as an artificial entity created by government ___ a corporation with the advantages which inhere in the corporate capacity which are not enjoyed by private firms or individuals’ ___ and calculating the tax from profits and gains realized under the privilege.

    Taxing “incomes” in this manner, those which are realized under a privilege granted by government and calculated from profits and or gains therefrom, makes the tax indirect and not requiring an apportionment, and thus satisfies the Sixteenth Amendment’s granted power to tax “incomes” without apportionment, while also preserving the constitutional protection requiring any “direct” tax must be apportioned.

    JWK
    Last edited by johnwk; 03-24-2023 at 03:32 PM.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Nope. By the end of February 1913 39 states (excluding Ohio) had ratified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixtee...s_Constitution
    I'm less interested in that point, just clarifying the point that johnwk is trying to make -- the manner in which the 16th Amendment was passed is clearly aberrant... kind of like a recent election we had was clearly aberrant....

    Nope. First of all, a tax on pay-for-work has never been held to be a direct tax.
    Well, first of all, that has nothing to do with the bolded part -- 75% super-majority of the States is absolutely required to pass a constitutional amendment... the Cabal hasn't figured out how to change that one, yet.

    As for the rest of your counter-tax-protestor arguments circus, I'll decline a reprise of that crap-show. You're out to lunch in respect to the clear meaning of the Constitution, which was written for Everyman to understand, it was not some kind of Holy Scrip bequeathed from the Founders to SCOTUS so that SCOTUS may tell us their Papal Pronouncements upon its true meaning.

    I'll not be replying so enjoy arguing with the wind!

    The outcry for an amendment was to overturn Pollock
    75% of Americans were lit on fire to overturn a Supreme Court case finding that a direct tax is unconstitutional unless apportioned?? Prove it! There should be years' worth of daily top-fold stories in every major newspaper throughout the country as Americans were assembling with torches and pitchforks, clamoring for the Federal government to impose a nation-wide income tax on them! Remember, only something like 35% of Americans do not actively oppose Antifa/BLM... and we call that a "major political movement"... Imagine if Antifa/BLM had more than twice the popular support that they do... you wouldn't be able to walk 3 feet down a public sidewalk without being bombarded by posters, pamphleteers, etc. Are you suggesting that, between 1911 and 1913, this is what was happening in America as ordinary Americans clamored and cried out in desperation to have a nation-wide, direct income tax imposed by the Federal government???

    constitutional amendments aren't put to a popular vote,
    Of course, but the States themselves are bound by their own popular constituency. A State governor is not going to move to support something that will get them voted out of office. Even more so for its State congressional members. So, there was surely a major political upwelling of popular support for this all-important 16th-Amendment to resolve the desperate political crisis that was destroying the lives of main-street Americans! It must have been headline news for years, people must have been turning half the nation upside-down.

    I have no idea whether a super majority of Americans wanted the amendment, but more than a super majority of state legislatures did.
    Hmm, yes, and I wonder what usually causes such disconnects between popular support and support among elected representatives? It couldn't possibly be bribery... that's unthinkable!

    The decision of the Supreme Court in the income-tax cases deprived the National Government of a power which, by reason of previous decisions of the court, it was generally supposed that Government had.
    Wow, what a pile of bull$#@!. I thought Slick Willy was the king of bull$#@! but boy was I wrong, Taft makes old Dress-Stain Clinton look like an amateur!

    Translation: "Boo hoo hoo! The SCOTUS -- who is the referee of what the Constitution means and by which we plan to bind our children to the payment of income taxes -- made a ruling and me and my political buddies don't like it because we 'generally supposed' among ourselves that we had pulled the wool over the eyes of the US public with our previous court cases in SCOTUS and the blatantly anti-constitutional verdicts we were able to secure in those cases! BOO HOO HOO!!"

    It is undoubtedly a power the National Government ought to have.
    It is undoubtedly a power that the Framers explicitly denied to the Federal government; the Hamiltonian central-bankers spent more than a century fishing for a way to circumvent it, which goes to demonstrate just how seriously that prohibition was taken. Sadly, the Hamiltonians eventually succeeded and they got their counterfeit banking empire and we are living in the aftermath of that. Hundreds of millions dead, worldwide. Truly incalculable economic devastation. Human development stunted. Spiritual and cultural progress aborted. Apocalypse snatched from the jaws of Paradise. Yay, central banking!

    It might be indispensable to the nation's life in great crises.
    The Statist talking points never change, do they?

    Although I have not considered a constitutional amendment as necessary to the exercise of certain phases of this power, a mature consideration has satisfied me that an amendment is the only proper course for its establishment to its full extent.
    Translation: "My banker buddies have assured me they will open up their counterfeiting operation the day I ensure that the power to impose a direct, unapportioned tax (taxation without representation) is secured. Otherwise, there is no other way to be completely certain the bonds they purchase from the treasury with counterfeit money will be repaid and the banksters do not tolerate delinquency on repayment of 'loans' drawn on their funny-money that they print out of thin-air."

    Thanks for destroying the vast majority of my own economic potential, and completely destroying the economic future of my children, Taft. Hope you're proud of yourself!
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 03-24-2023 at 03:12 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  26. #52
    No one is reading all these blah blah blah posts. Tufts is making a mockery of the site and us while laughing all the way to the bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I'm less interested in that point, just clarifying the point that johnwk is trying to make -- the manner in which the 16th Amendment was passed is clearly aberrant...
    In what way? Did the shape-shifting Illuminati cast a spell over the ratifying legislatures?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    It is undoubtedly a power that the Framers explicitly denied to the Federal government
    Read the Constitution, numbnut. The only thing it says Congress can't tax is exports.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    No one is reading all these blah blah blah posts.
    Apparently you are.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    In what way? Did the shape-shifting Illuminati cast a spell over the ratifying legislatures?
    More believable than Sniffy-Joe "You Ain't Black" Biden getting more black votes than Obama...

    Read the Constitution, numbnut. The only thing it says Congress can't tax is exports.
    Ol' "Brickhead" Tufts strikes again!

    "No ... direct Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the ... Enumeration herein before directed to be taken [in Art. 1 Sec 2]"

    Read it: "NO ... DIRECT TAX"

    The "unless" is an exception that permits a direct tax to be laid ONLY in proportion to the number of representatives. Hence, all DIRECT and UNAPPORTIONED taxes were prohibited by the Constitution, no matter what ol' Howie "Slicker-than-Slick" Taft had to say about the matter!
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    No one is reading all these blah blah blah posts. Tufts is making a mockery of the site and us while laughing all the way to the bank.
    I don't agree -- us old diehards need to occasionally stoop down and do a few rounds in the ring with the paid-propagandists for the benefit of new folks who are just onboarding to the movement. Freshly-minted 19-year-old LPMC members with a summer at Mises U under their belt will have been exposed to a broad palette of Leftist talking-points, but there is a veritable ocean of such talking-points, and so a big part of equipping them to take on the Left is just showing them the ropes, getting out there and showing them how to sail over stormy seas...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  32. #57
    Sixteenth Amendment: "You may eat any fruit in the orchard".

    "johnwk": "But it doesn't say you may eat apples!".

    Nothing more to say.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Sixteenth Amendment: "You may eat any fruit in the orchard".

    "johnwk": "But it doesn't say you may eat apples!".

    Nothing more to say.
    And you eat the lies which you have been feed, and then regurgitate those lies.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    And you eat the lies which you have been feed, and then regurgitate those lies.
    No lies from me here.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    "No ... direct Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the ... Enumeration herein before directed to be taken [in Art. 1 Sec 2]"

    Read it: "NO ... DIRECT TAX"

    The "unless" is an exception that permits a direct tax to be laid ONLY in proportion to the number of representatives. Hence, all DIRECT and UNAPPORTIONED taxes were prohibited by the Constitution, no matter what ol' Howie "Slicker-than-Slick" Taft had to say about the matter!
    You really are terminally ignorant, with a gob of stupidity to boot. No, the Constitution doesn't prohibit unapportioned taxes. Imposts, excises, and duties don't have to be apportioned; they only have to be geographically uniform. In addition, the 16th Amendment makes it clear to all but the illiterate and terminally dense that a tax on income doesn't have to be apportioned regardless of where the income comes from.

    Only direct taxes (other than a tax on income, if you still adhere to the moronic view that an income tax is a direct tax) have to be apportioned.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

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