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Thread: This Should End Well: Harley-Davidson Vows to Go All-electric

  1. #1

    This Should End Well: Harley-Davidson Vows to Go All-electric

    This Should End Well: Harley-Davidson Vows to Go All-electric

    The New American
    January 23, 2023


    A 300-pound, hairy wrestler in a pink tutu; ice cream and bacon; doughnuts and seafood. While certain things just don’t go together, all three preceding combinations may work better than what has just been called inevitable: Harley Davidson’s entire line of motorcycles going electric.

    This was proclaimed the future of the storied motorcycle brand by none other than its CEO, Jochen Zeitz. Per the Robb Report (RR):


    “At some point in time, Harley Davidson will be all-electric,” the executive recently told [architecture and design magazine] Dezeen. “But that’s a long-term transition that needs to happen. It’s not something you do overnight.”

    Zeitz’s pronouncement seems guaranteed to make a not-insignificant portion of the manufacturer’s customer base cringe. For many enthusiasts, the thing that really sets a Harley apart from other motorcycles — American-made or otherwise — is a thunderously loud internal combustion engine. But the company knows that no matter how important those large-displacement mills might be change is on the horizon.


    Okay, it’s not quite as crazy as it sounds (but almost), as the RR states that apparently-suicidal Harley plans to “ease its way into” electrocution electrification.

    “It takes decades, right?” Zeitz told Dezeen. “But you have to also think in decades rather than just thinking about what year and the short-termism that everyone is exposed to as a public company. We have to think about the transition, and preparing for that transition is why LiveWire [the name of Harley’s first electric motorcycle, launched in 2018] was born.”

    Alright, so maybe it’s not time to sell short on Harley stock just yet. But some observers certainly aren’t optimistic about Zeitz’s vision for the future. For instance, American Thinker editor-in-chief Thomas Lifson has the company on “corporate suicide watch” and asks, “what does Harley-Davidson really have to offer aside from a bad boy image connected to loud exhaust pipes and the buy-American preferences of some motorcycle gangs clubs?”

    “I am not a biker nor an expert on motorcycles, but I spent a lot of time as a consultant to two of the world’s biggest auto manufacturers and talked to a lot of engineers about manufacturing tolerances and other arcana of internal combustion engines, and I know that Harleys are not exactly pushing the frontier of excellence,” Lifson continues. “In fact, one American executive with whom I worked was an enthusiast and drove a BMW machine, while others praised the engine technology of Japanese manufacturers.” Experienced motorcyclist commenters under Lifson’s piece seconded his opinion.

    Lifson also has a theory as to what may be driving Harley’s hara-kiri compulsions. “Perhaps it is just an attempt to pre-empt critics,” he suggests, “possibly including the CEO’s college indoctrinated children, claiming that Harley emissions are making ‘the oceans boil’ as Al Gore recently claimed at Davos, after deplaning from his Gulfstream private jet, the Flying Squirrel.”

    Or maybe it’s ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) pressure from multinational investment management corporation BlackRock, which not only refuses to invest in “un-woke” companies but also pressures other entities to not do so.

    Then again, the explanation could be full-throttle acceptance by Zeitz of our zeitgeist. Mindful that he’s a German businessman, consider that aside from his perhaps not fully understanding the American market, Germans also appear to have greater interest in electric vehicles (EVs) than most any other nationality. This isn’t really surprising, either. With 50 percent of my ancestors hailing from Germany, having spent much time in the nation, and being a keen observer of cultural differences, I’ve noted that Germans are, well, let’s say, an unusual bunch given to embracing fads.

    EVs are a fad, too — and a bad fad. Famed investigative journalist John Stossel reported on this late last year (must-see videos below).








    The bottom line is that, according to many analysts, EVs pollute more on balance than conventional autos do (the former’s production is quite energy intensive and requires the mining and use of rare-earth elements), run on electricity generated mainly with fossil fuels, and could overwhelm a power grid that’s already strained in certain places, such as California. As for the wind and solar “renewables,” they’re unrealistic, low-yield energy sources that simply cannot provide the juice necessary to power civilization.

    Returning to Harley, Zeitz could, again, just being playing to a woke audience with his electric ambitions, much as the Chinese do when humoring us about cooperation on “climate change.” Regardless, planning “decades” down the road is both dubious and quite optimistic. After all, Harley isn’t the only thing that may not exist as we know it in 30 years — there’s the world, too.



    SOURCE:
    https://thenewamerican.com/this-shou...-all-electric/
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  3. #2
    “It takes decades, right?” Zeitz told Dezeen. “But you have to also think in decades rather than just thinking about what year and the short-termism that everyone is exposed to as a public company. We have to think about the transition, and preparing for that transition is why LiveWire [the name of Harley’s first electric motorcycle, launched in 2018] was born.”
    Yeah, and it was such a flop they spun off and sold the electric bike "Live Wire" division in 2022.

    $30,000 for an electric scooter...no thanks.

    But that won't stop the wokesters and eurofags that now apparently run HD.

    Like NASCAR, it's not that they don't know their customers, it is that they know very well who their customers are, and they hate them.

    They were doomed anyways.

    The only thing HD had going for it was it's "bad boy" image and look and sound.

    Your modern American soyboy Gen Z fagggot could not possibly care less about even having an image like that.

    Besides, they can't be bothered to drive a car, let alone figure out how to ride a motorcycle.

    So once the last generation of gray hairs like me die off, that still had a soft spot for a roaring Vtwin heat engine, that'll be it for HD.

    We'll all be riding around on these in the future...

    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    They should go back to steam instead.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So once the last generation of gray hairs like me die off, that still had a soft spot for a roaring Vtwin heat engine, that'll be it for HD.
    Soft spot is right. There's a reason Indian, whose V-twins did not fire both cylinders on the same revolution, went broke, and Harley, whose cylinders both fire at nearly the same moment, and require all their bolts re-tightened regularly, didn't. People may not have figured out that they're big vibrators, or might not say it out loud, but everyone knows that's the machine that makes women... cooperative.

    How are they going to preserve their major selling point? Put a big eccentric weight on the electric motor like an oversized cell phone vibrator?

    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    They should go back to steam instead.
    Not that Harley ever made a steam engine, but yes, they should. It has cylinders, and you can burn veggie oil in a boiler and make the exhaust smell like salad dressing.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 01-24-2023 at 07:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    They should go back to steam instead.
    You ain't fooling.

    I'd pay good money for one of these:



    Or one of these:

    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The only thing HD had going for it was it's "bad boy" image and look and sound.
    Hey, you can still make the "Brub, Bruub, Bruuuub!" sound; it's just that the exhaust won't be accompanying you.



    Maybe you can clothespin some baseball cards to the wheel forks so they slap against the spokes like when we were kids. Who know; an aftermarket for producing electronic engine noise might even spring up.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Hey, you can still make the "Brub, Bruub, Bruuuub!" sound; it's just that the exhaust won't be accompanying you.

    Maybe you can clothespin some baseball cards to the wheel forks so they slap against the spokes like when we were kids. Who know; an aftermarket for producing electronic engine noise might even spring up.
    My stepdaughter has a Honda CRV Hybrid.

    Because it's so quiet, the Hondoo engineers figured they better have it make some noise so people know it's nearby and in motion.





    Then there was some muscle car that was offered in an electric version.

    It made engine noises.

    Wish I could recall who made that idiocy.

    WRT to Brub Brub Brub...I ride a 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500. I put a set of Cobra baffled drag pipes on it, and it makes a bit of a racket, especially when rolling on the throttle. But it doesn't sound the same as an HD, and it was purely mechanical advantage for me. It dropped about 100 pounds off an already overweight bike, gave me a few more inches of ground clearance (nice for cornering) and a few more HP on the top end.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 01-28-2023 at 10:40 AM.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Then there was some muscle car that was offered in an electric version.

    It made engine noises.

    Wish I could recall who made that idiocy.
    It was Dodge; tod evans had posted a video of it on one of your threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    23 min in they cut the BS and show the car.




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  11. #9
    Born to be mild

    Get your motors buzzing
    Scoot out on the Greenway.
    Looking to virtue signal
    To whoever come my way

    Yeah nonbinary nothin's gonna happen
    Rolling blackouts got me trapped in this space
    Walk my bike up to 5 mph
    Coast down a hill to another place.

    I like rules and regulations
    And the system that I'm under


    I don't feel like writing anymore. It's a disgrace what this country has become.
    ...

  12. #10
    Go woke go broke
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  13. #11
    I have 2014 Cadillac Vsport and love the car. Yes, they pump exhaust noise into the cabin but honestly it enhances the experience of driving. Being able to hear allows for a better driver/vehicle relationship when in sport/manual mode. As any of you that drive a manual transmission can tell, the sound of the engine gives you as much information as looking at the RPM’s and gauge's.


    2014 Cadillac CTS pumps engine sound into the cabin using the car’s audio system.

    It’s no secret that connecting to the performance of a car from the cockpit is tied to being able to hear what’s going on under the hood.

    The rocket science behind it all is how a carmaker pulls off enhancing that experience without taking away from the true authenticity of the engine’s unique sounds when driving the vehicle. It’s especially tough with the strict noise limitations mandated by government agencies.

    For the all-new 2014 Cadillac CTS, GM says the process included applying the principles of psychoacoustics, the science of sound and perception. Building on the idea that engine sound communicates throttle response, CTS engineers tuned the car with specific audio properties related to its three distinctive driving modes – Tour, Sport and Track. Then they added in the car’s Bose audio system.

    The Tour mode is intended to produce a sound that evokes the new CTS’s refinement. The Sport mode was tuned for a more powerful soundtrack. The car’s most aggressive sound – and likely the most pleasing to performance enthusiasts – is Track mode, which is only available on the CTS Vsport, which is equipped with Cadillac’s first Twin-Turbo V6 engine that generates 420 horsepower.

    Relying on a bit of human instinct, the CTS engineering team spent considerable time assessing what sounds were pleasing to the ear, then compared them to competitive models before narrowing down the final tones.

    To enhance the sound even more, microphones were strategically placed in the cabin and used an integrated electronic enhancement system to execute the sound designs. The microphones assess the natural sound of the engine and the enhancement system selects preferred tones to come through CTS’s Bose audio system.

    The sound enhancement system acts like a choir conductor, calling forth certain engine sounds to sing the loudest depending on the driving mode,” said Dave Leone, CTS executive chief engineer, Performance Luxury Vehicles, in a press release statement about the technology. “We used our ears to tell us what sounded the best and programmed the system to listen for those tones. It is Cadillac’s Art and Science design philosophy applied to engine sound.”

    It’s all a fitting tribute to the third-generation CTS, which at one inch lower and five inches longer than the previous model, looks a whole lot more menacing than its predecessor. Plus, enhancing the sound inside the car means the actual exterior exhaust not can be more in line with regulations while still giving the driver the needed feedback and aural enjoyment.

    But is it cheating, per se? What car enthusiast doesn’t like to blip the throttle to let those nearby know there’s some menace under the hood? If only the driver can hear it, does it really make a sound?

    If only the driver can hear does it really make a sound? thought that last line was great, lol.
    Last edited by sam1952; 01-24-2023 at 01:21 PM.
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  14. #12
    I am a lifelong rider and Harleys never interested me. I have seen some that look great, but have never enjoyed the sound or the lackluster performance. AF’s Vulcan would easily smoke all but the most Screaming Eagled up Harleys.

    I am where I could afford a Harley, but bought a 200 HP Italian bike instead and it was only the price of a fully kitted sportster. I do have a backup jap bike.

    The Pan America is a nice Harley…unfortunately soy boys don’t ride. Not even electric. There wives or manwives won’t “let” them.

    They have been living off their stored up brand equity for a long time and it’s dying off with its loyal customers.

    I ride tail of the dragon all year and I get an amazing cut of demographics from all over. Gen X dudes see better value in other brands.

  15. #13
    LiveWire Loses Almost $370 Million as Investors Flee, Forcing Harley-Davidson to Pick Up the Tab
    Even after going public, the LiveWire EV spinoff is costing Harley-Davidson millions more than it expected.

    November 3, 2022

    https://jalopnik.com/livewire-loses-...e-f-1849739338
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    I am a lifelong rider and Harleys never interested me. I have seen some that look great, but have never enjoyed the sound or the lackluster performance. AF’s Vulcan would easily smoke all but the most Screaming Eagled up Harleys.

    I am where I could afford a Harley, but bought a 200 HP Italian bike instead and it was only the price of a fully kitted sportster. I do have a backup jap bike.

    The Pan America is a nice Harley…unfortunately soy boys don’t ride. Not even electric. There wives or manwives won’t “let” them.

    They have been living off their stored up brand equity for a long time and it’s dying off with its loyal customers.

    I ride tail of the dragon all year and I get an amazing cut of demographics from all over. Gen X dudes see better value in other brands.

    I have a friend who said once of Harley Davidson: "You're paying to be in a club." They slap that 'harley davidson' name on it and it adds another 10K or usually more to the value of the bike.

    I'm just trying to imagine what that club is going to look like with everyone running around in man-buns and skinny jeans on electric scooters.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I have a friend who said once of Harley Davidson: "You're paying to be in a club." They slap that 'harley davidson' name on it and it adds another 10K or usually more to the value of the bike.

    I'm just trying to imagine what that club is going to look like with everyone running around in man-buns and skinny jeans on electric scooters.
    Your friend is correct. They already bombed hard with the Livewire. There was not enough man bunners to build interest and the Easy Rider guys would't be caught dead on one.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    They have been living off their stored up brand equity for a long time and it’s dying off with its loyal customers.
    I've been saying this for quite a while now.

    Harley's dying base signals to me that they should move into the HD branded casket business.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I've been saying this for quite a while now.

    Harley's dying base signals to me that they should move into the HD branded casket business.
    They wouldn’t be able to keep Harley Davidson mobility scooters in stock.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    They wouldn’t be able to keep Harley Davidson mobility scooters in stock.
    Great idea.

    They could pipe the anti-insecurity fake engine noise directly into the hearing aids.



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