Biden Administration Considers Banning Gas Stoves over Health Concerns

[Snowball]

You want to be part of that?

Whatever the truth is, I'd like to see no more than enough natural gas produced for our own domestic use, and for select but NOT widespread exporting.

Exporting billions of square feet of NG and other gases to China, Europe and wherever does nothing but raise our prices AND add risk to the environment and potentially human health, because oil and gas exploration and drilling must expand therefore into hithero non-producing areas. Some of those areas are sensitive in the natural world, formerly or even currently procted. I value our natural world much more than I value corporate profits. I also object to the cynical and ideologically-driven axoim that the best way to stop prices from getting out of hand is to drive more production. Wrong. Just stop selling overseas. The situation is worsened by the push by corrupt politicians to ship LNG out to Europe because of the war that caused to happen. Cui Bono. Always. You remember the "peak oil" and shale boom and the Alberta tar sands, North Dakota and probably New York and Penn. before there was a drill everywhere. We're producing so much so that fat pigs on Wall Street can become bilionaires, while Americans prices only go up, despite the fracking. Of course I don't want to ban gas of any kind, but I also realize that the harder and more chemical-based you have to go with the fracking, the more toxic the environment and the product. All so they can overproduce as the sole method to lower prices. Not for OUR demand, but to export so a small number of financiers can get rich. This model they seek to command over the entire world.

[A Son of Liberty]

Whatever the truth is, I'd like to see no more than enough natural gas produced for our own domestic use, and for select but NOT widespread exporting.

Exporting billions of square feet of NG and other gases to China, Europe and wherever does nothing but raise our prices AND add risk to the environment and potentially human health, because oil and gas exploration and drilling must expand therefore into hithero non-producing areas. Some of those areas are sensitive in the natural world, formerly or even currently procted. I value our natural world much more than I value corporate profits. I also object to the cynical and ideologically-driven axoim that the best way to stop prices from getting out of hand is to drive more production. Wrong. Just stop selling overseas. The situation is worsened by the push by corrupt politicians to ship LNG out to Europe because of the war that caused to happen. Cui Bono. Always. You remember the "peak oil" and shale boom and the Alberta tar sands, North Dakota and probably New York and Penn. before there was a drill everywhere. We're producing so much so that fat pigs on Wall Street can become bilionaires, while Americans prices only go up, despite the fracking. Of course I don't want to ban gas of any kind, but I also realize that the harder and more chemical-based you have to go with the fracking, the more toxic the environment and the product. All so they can overproduce as the sole method to lower prices. Not for OUR demand, but to export so a small number of financiers can get rich. This model they seek to command over the entire world.

Congrats on this mostly incoherent rant.

[A Son of Liberty]

Those are not chemicals pumped into the well, those are naturally occurring hydrocarbon compounds that are part of untreated and unprocessed natural gas and oil.

Did you read the study that your last link referenced?

The presence of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in unprocessed natural gas (NG) is well documented; however, the degree to which VOCs are present in NG at the point of end use is largely uncharacterized. We collected 234 whole NG samples across 69 unique residential locations across the Greater Boston metropolitan area, Massachusetts. NG samples were measured for methane (CH4), ethane (C2H6), and nonmethane VOC (NMVOC) content (including tentatively identified compounds) using commercially available USEPA analytical methods. Results revealed 296 unique NMVOC constituents in end use NG, of which 21 (or approximately 7%) were designated as hazardous air pollutants. Benzene (bootstrapped mean = 164 ppbv; SD = 16; 95% CI: 134–196) was detected in 95% of samples along with hexane (98% detection), toluene (94%), heptane (94%), and cyclohexane (89%), contributing to a mean total concentration of NMVOCs in distribution-grade NG of 6.0 ppmv (95% CI: 5.5–6.6). While total VOCs exhibited significant spatial variability, over twice as much temporal variability was observed, with a wintertime NG benzene concentration nearly eight-fold greater than summertime. By using previous NG leakage data, we estimated that 120–356 kg/yr of annual NG benzene emissions throughout Greater Boston are not currently accounted for in emissions inventories, along with an unaccounted-for indoor portion. NG-odorant content (tert-butyl mercaptan and isopropyl mercaptan) was used to estimate that a mean NG-CH4 concentration of 21.3 ppmv (95% CI: 16.7–25.9) could persist undetected in ambient air given known odor detection thresholds. This implies that indoor NG leakage may be an underappreciated source of both CH4 and associated VOCs.

These amounts are almost undetectable.

The sensitivity of modern spectrometers is staggering, now being able to detect not parts per billion but parts per trillion.

One hour of spray painting will expose you to more VOCs (volatile organic compounds like benzene) than a whole lifetime of living and using natural gas appliances, based on these numbers.

Furthermore, according to the National Fire Prevention Association, you are 3.4 times more likely to die in a house fire cause by electric cooking devices than in home with gas cooking devices.

Cheap, clean, energy dense fuel is the bedrock of modern civilization, it is why we (were) living so much longer than our ancestors.

Look, there's no question what the long range plan of our oppressors are:

Step One - Ban these lifesaving and life enhancing devices like gas appliances, cars, refrigerators, air conditioning, fertilizers and modern farming.

Step Two - Put everybody on a "green grid" like they did in Sri Lanka for instance or Holland.

Step Three - Watch food shortages and starvation increase, heat and cold related deaths rise and diseases sweep entire nations.

Step Four - Proclaim that "well, we did all we could do", declare there is nothing left to try but a Global Green Final Solution.

Step Five - Release COVID 23 from the Chinese Communist bio-weapon lab where it is now being researched and tested.

Step Six - Watch 7 to 8 billion people die of choking, stinking man made plague.

Step Seven - Bask in the sunshine of a new day on a planet all to yourselves.

You want to be part of that?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

No offense to him or you, but you're legitimately arguing with a mental patient. Dude is just ignoring facts and spouting nonsense, and thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is somehow in on the the plot. It's best to just walk away. He's proving the opposite of his point by his ravings.

[Bryan]

Some great discussion here. Great to have some experts. Let's do please keep it civil however. Facts & logic are enough to win.



Here's a good website that discloses what chemicals have been used for all modern wells:
https://fracfocus.org/

From my limited experience, the anti-fracking points based on acquirer issues are completely unfounded.

Improper handling of waste could be more of an issue. Don't know, but:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...racking-waste/

[A Son of Liberty]

Some great discussion here. Great to have some experts. Let's do please keep it civil however. Facts & logic are enough to win.



Here's a good website that discloses what chemicals have been used for all modern wells:
https://fracfocus.org/

From my limited experience, the anti-fracking points based on acquirer issues are completely unfounded.

Improper handling of waste could be more of an issue. Don't know, but:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...racking-waste/

Fracfocus is a great site - you can actually look up any well in the country, and what chemicals were used during completions (completions is the "fracking" part of the well lifecycle).

[Anti Federalist]

Whatever the truth is, I'd like to see no more than enough natural gas produced for our own domestic use, and for select but NOT widespread exporting.

Ah, here we find common ground.

I happen to agree.

One of the biggest costs to any sort of value added manufacturing, which is what any stable, prosperous and free nation must have, is energy.

Anything that can keep those costs down is to be encouraged.

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/KUSINews/status/1615823141544296449

[Origanalist]

https://twitter.com/KUSINews/status/1615823141544296449

They won't be satisfied until we're all cooking crickets over the fire.

[CCTelander]

They won't be satisfied until we're all cooking crickets over the fire.

What’s that you say? Can’tvhear you over the crunch.

[Origanalist]

What’s that you say? Can’tvhear you over the crunch.

Perfect! Now you can be pray to lesser apex predators and the planet will be so much better off.

[CCTelander]

Perfect! Now you can be pray to lesser apex predators and the planet will be so much better off.

As long as I can eat bugs, own nothing and be happy in my stack-a-prole government provided housing.

[Origanalist]

As long as I can eat bugs, own nothing and be happy in my stack-a-prole government provided housing.

You have just been promoted comrade. You can now own nothing, live in government housing and eat laboratory grown meat. cooperation has it's rewards.

[CCTelander]

You have just been promoted comrade. You can now own nothing, live in government housing and eat laboratory grown meat. cooperation has it's rewards.

Ah, the good life. How simple life can be when we surrender to Big Bro .. oops, almost forgot, “Differently Sized Gender Non-Specific Creche Comoanion!” (H/t to @Occam’s_Banana)

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfR2vPyuagM

[Occam's Banana]

Gas stove controversy heats up again as second U.S. agency proposes limits
https://seekingalpha.com/news/393095...roposes-limits
Carl Surran (01 February 2023)

Gas stoves are coming under renewed scrutiny as the U.S. Department of Energy published a proposal Wednesday for new regulations for the appliances, some of which have never been subject to federal efficiency standards.

The proposed rule-making would set new efficiency standards for both electric and gas cooking tops, preventing them from exceeding set levels of energy use per year.

The DoE proposal represents a standard that "today's more efficient gas stove designs can meet," according to Andrew deLaski, executive director of the Appliance Standards Awareness Project.

"We are concerned that this is another attempt by the federal government to use regulations to remove viable and efficient natural gas products from the market," American Gas Association President Karen Harbertsaid.

Groups representing makers of ranges from companies such as Whirlpool also aid they were alarmed by the proposal.

Florida governor Ron DeSantis, a potential 2024 presidential candidate, has included an exemption from state sales taxes for all gas appliances as part of his budget for the new fiscal year.

The DoE proposal comes just three weeks after an official with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission floated a potential ban on gas stoves, prompting sharp criticism that forced the Biden administration to disavow the idea.

[johnwk]

The Marxists love the idea of electrifying everything.

The electric grid is easy to control, thus making people easy to control.

No more "prepping"...can't save five gallons of electrons in a jug.

Almost everything this Administration is doing is an outright attack on the general welfare of the United States and her citizens, e.g.:

• Flooding the United States with millions upon millions of poverty-stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled, and criminal foreign nationals;
• Allowing deadly drugs to pour across our border which is killing our nation's youth;
• Hollowing out our military’s seasoned and well-trained officers, troops, seamen and pilots by discharging them for not being injected with an ineffective and experimental “vaccine”;
• Depleting our militaries' weapons of defense by transferring them into the hands of foreign nationals;
• Emptying out our strategic oil reserve which is specifically intended for use in a national emergency such as war;
• Shutting down our nation’s ability to produce cheap fuel needed for our nation’s manufacturing competitiveness;
• Imposing unrealistic regulations upon our nation’s businesses and industries which in turn is destroying our manufacturing capabilities and global competitiveness;
• Flooding our country with a worthless paper currency causing consumer goods to double and even triple in price;
• Working to transfer our nation’s technology to hostile foreign countries . . . etc., and etc, ...

Indeed! And the list goes on and on and provides sufficient evidence to conclude this Administration and the Democrat Party Leadership is engaged in traitorous policies, and intentionally working to bring the United States to its knees.

JWK

I never thought I would live to see the day when American Citizens would stand idle and allow the United States to be invaded by millions upon millions of foreign nationals without a shot being fired.

[Anti Federalist]

I never thought I would live to see the day when American Citizens would stand idle and allow the United States to be invaded by millions upon millions of foreign nationals without a shot being fired.

Based on so much they already tolerate from our oppressors, I'm not.

[Anti Federalist]

The proposed rule-making would set new efficiency standards for both electric and gas cooking tops, preventing them from exceeding set levels of energy use per year.

Who are these people that claim to have the power that they can just announce "rules" that we must obey?

(purely rhetorical question, I know)

So, now we can look forward to stoves that don't cook, to go right along side our washers that don't wash, lights that don't light, toilets that don't flush, cars that don't go, furnaces that don't heat and paints that don't paint, to name just a few.

Just an aside...this little cold snap up here has got some folks furious.

Seems they are finding out that those new fangled second generation "green" electric heat pumps for home heating and cooling do not work when it's a gozillion degrees below zero, like it was last night and like it usually is for at least a few weeks every winter.

So, on the night you need it the most, (seriously, cold like last night is life threatening if you lose your heat source), your new green, whiz bang, super efficient heat pump doesn't work, because outside of a lab with a liquid nitrogen heat exchanger you cannot "pump" any heat from out of doors when it's minus 20 out.

(Mt. Washington is about an hour away. It set a national all time record low wind chill reading last night of -109 below zero.)

[Occam's Banana]

Internal Biden admin memo shows it was serious about banning gas stoves before public uproar
Internal Biden administration memo said need for aggressive gas stove regulations 'has reached a boiling point'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/int...-public-uproar
Thomas Catenacci (02 February 2023)

The Biden administration seriously considered banning natural gas-powered stoves before it received widespread criticism for considering such a move, according to an internal memo obtained by Fox News Digital.

In the memo dated Oct. 25, 2022, Richard Trumka Jr. — whom President Biden appointed to serve on the five-person Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) — wrote to a fellow commissioner that there was sufficient evidence for the agency to move forward with a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPR) to ban gas stoves in the near future. Trumka's memo was titled, "NPR Proposing Ban on Gas Stoves (Indoor Air Quality)."

"The need for gas stove regulation has reached a boiling point," the CPSC commissioner wrote in the October memo. "CPSC has the responsibility to ban consumer products that emit hazardous substances, particularly, when those emissions harm children, under the Federal Hazardous Substances Act."

"Emerging evidence is sufficient to conclude that gas stoves in homes emit toxic gasses that cause illness and that lower-cost, safer alternatives are available," Trumka added.

DEMOCRAT-LED CITIES ARE ALREADY MOVING FORWARD WITH GAS STOVE BANS THAT WILL AFFECT MILLIONS

Trumka noted that the two largest U.S. cities, New York City and Los Angeles, had already banned gas stoves in new construction "for health and inequity reasons" and because gas stoves "strongly contribute to climate change through greenhouse gas emissions."

"There is sufficient information available for CPSC to issue an NPR in FY 2023 proposing to ban gas stoves in homes," he concluded. "The additional work needed to complete an NPR is primarily economic; the available health and scientific evidence on illnesses caused by the relevant gasses at the concentrations present in homes with gas stoves already exists."

BIDEN AGENCY REFUSES TO CITE RESEARCH SUPPORTING POTENTIAL NATURAL GAS STOVE BAN

Trumka's internal memo shows that plans to restrict gas stoves were set in motion months earlier than previously reported. It also casts doubts on comments made recently by Trumka and other administration officials that such a ban would not be considered.

Months after the memo, Trumka made headlines when he told Bloomberg in January that "any option is on the table" regarding gas stove regulation.

His comments sparked a furor from energy groups, Republican lawmakers and some Democrats who blasted the CPSC for targeting gas stoves, which are used by millions of Americans. Critics also said alternatives to natural gas power would increase costs for consumers.

In response to the widespread criticism, the White House was forced to walk back Trumka's comments, saying Biden was not in favor of banning gas stoves, and CPSC Chairman Alexander Hoehn-Saric stated he was not "looking to ban gas stoves."

"CPSC is researching gas emissions in stoves and exploring new ways to address any health risks," the chairman added. "CPSC also is actively engaged in strengthening voluntary safety standards for gas stoves."

Deputy Energy Secretary David Turk reiterated during a hearing Thursday that the administration would not ban gas stoves after Senate Energy and Natural Resources Ranking Member John Barrasso, R-Wyo., asked him about Trumka's memo.

On Wednesday, the Department of Energy (DOE) introduced a series of strict gas stove standards that would mandate higher efficiency levels. A DOE spokesperson told FOX Business that the agency wasn't considering a ban.

Additionally, Sens. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., introduced legislation that would block the CPSC from banning gas stoves.

"Make no mistake, radical environmentalists want to stop Americans from using natural gas," Cruz said. "The Consumer Product Safety Commission’s proposed ban on gas stoves is the latest egregious scaremongering by the far left and their Biden administration allies."

[Occam's Banana]

h/t Noam Blum: "It's not going to happen but we want it to happen and it'll be good if it happens but it's not happening so stop complaining about it happening you nutty conspiracy theorist."

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/stat...57481452498945

[Occam's Banana]

THREAD: San Francisco Bay Area Bans Gas Furnaces and Water Heaters

[Anti Federalist]

THREAD: San Francisco Bay Area Bans Gas Furnaces and Water Heaters

THIS IS NOT AN ASSAULT!!!

[Occam's Banana]

THIS IS NOT AN ASSAULT!!!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, it's real: Joe Biden's Department of Energy just moved to ban nearly all gas stoves

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/r...ban-gas-stoves

By Rep. Debbie Lesko March 14, 2023 07:30 AM

Yes, the Biden administration is coming for your gas stove.

The legacy media and the Left attempted to brush off the initial gas stove controversy and outcry from the Right as nothing more than an unsubstantiated, irrational conspiracy theory. The White House even insisted that President Joe Biden does not support a ban on gas stoves after one of his federal consumer safety officials suggested that such a ban was on the table.

But, as we are seeing in so many other instances, Republicans were right all along. President Joe Biden’s Department of Energy is, in fact, pushing an extreme regulation that would effectively eliminate nearly all gas stoves.

The Department of Energy is conducting this gas stove grab through a rule that would impose extreme energy performance standards on residential cooktops. The department’s proposed rule sets requirements for gas cooktops at the maximum technologically feasible or "max-tech" level. Based on the Department of Energy's own analysis, gas cooktops at the max-tech level represent just 4% of current market share and exclude all conventional free-stand ranges.

Any rule that causes 96% of the products available today to be eliminated from the market is an extreme regulation. In fact, it is essentially an outright ban on gas stoves.

With this latest rush-to-green policy, the Department of Energy has also failed to take consumer preference into consideration when it comes to gas stove design. To accommodate the DOE’s proposed standards, manufacturers are going to have to make dramatic design changes that result in smaller burners and longer cooking times, as well as smaller grates that could be less stable. Consumers in the kitchen are unlikely to approve of these changes.

Comically, Biden’s Department of Energy is justifying this proposed requirement based on estimated savings to the consumer for gas cooktops of $21.89 over the next 14.5 years, which equates to a savings of just $1.50 per year. People are not willing to trade such substantially decreased functionality and features for minuscule savings.

Once again, the Biden administration proves it is out of touch with the average American.

This radical proposal from the Department of Energy is open for public comment. The public should tell the Biden administration to keep their hands off gas stoves. Comments can be submitted via Regulations.gov through April 3, 2023.

[Anti Federalist]

[Occam's Banana]

THREAD: "All remaining airports close" ... "All shipping declines to zero"

[Occam's Banana]

THREAD: New fedgov restrictions coming on window air conditioners and air cleaners

[Anti Federalist]

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/DunedainRanger9/...73286782005274

[Occam's Banana]

The elites don't want you rubes to have gas stoves but they'll make exceptions for their favorite celebrity chefs
https://notthebee.com/article/the-el...elebrity-chefs
Wolfgang Ramsay (19 May 2023)

[all emphasis in the original - OB]

If it seems to you like the rich, moneyed, well-connected progressives who control our society want to deny you everything enjoyable in your life while greedily holding onto those same enjoyable things themselves, well, I've got news for you: You are correct.

https://twitter.com/katiadoyl/status...58788959232005


A California city will make an exception to its natural gas ban for world-famous chef José Andrés, after the landlords for the chef's planned restaurant warned Andrés may pull out over the regulation.

After the owners of the mall where Andrés is set to open the restaurant threatened to sue the city, Palo Alto administrators will allow Andrés's Mediterranean restaurant Zaytinya to use natural gas lines, despite a new law this year that bans them in construction.

A lawyer for the controlling real estate firm says the restaurant depends on "traditional cooking methods that require gas appliances to achieve its signature, complex flavors."

Which, sure, that's fair. Mediterranean cooking is some of the most technically complex and intensive food on the planet. It needs high-end equipment and techniques to come out good. You can't blame them for wanting the best.

It's just...can't the rest of us have the best, too? Can't we all just have the best? Can't everybody have the best stuff instead of it being limited to just a small cabal of elites?

The city, meanwhile, said the restaurant "should be able to proceed with gas service consistent with the long-established project plans" which began in 2019. They dubbed the exception a "one-off" bending of the rules.

Somehow I doubt this is the last time this will happen.