Ok, so Trump supporters are a bunch of idiots.Originally Posted by vita3
My point to 69360 was that they have not gone away and Trump, for good or bad, is still a potent political force to be dealt with.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
As you pointed out, Ron and Massie had to play ball because they were beholden to the Speaker as members of the house. Trump is not. Trump's political cache is in being the rogue... the outsider committed to "draining the swamp". Simply put, what message does it send to his base - a base that is practically on the edge of outright rebellion - that he is endorsing the second highest ranking establishment Republican (after McConnell) on Capitol Hill? These are the very people who stood in direct opposition to him during his presidency. They're uniparty.
And the idea that he's going to "drain the swamp" if he wins in 2024 is laughable. He didn't do it in his first term, having surrounded himself with every manner of swamp creature including one of the worst in Bolton... and now his endorsement of McCarthy? He's telling his base that not only did he not learn from his mistakes, he's doubling down on them.
I don't know what the exact probability is that Trump will drain the swamp, but I know it isn't zero. Past behavior isn't always indicative of future behavior.
Do you have any better options?
As far as being beholden to the party, he hasn't been elected yet. I think Trump knows his base is pretty strong, they know he has to play politics. He might figure he gets a bigger swing from not rocking the boat too much in DC. At least until he is elected, hopefully.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Do we really care who they select to lead these cretins?
I mean, I want to see Massie get some nice committee assignments, but other than that, I don't care who organizes the fundraising or cracks the party whip.
"And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
I wouldn't say that his base is strong anymore... maybe, maybe not, but after the vax position and now this one, it has to be in question. From a strict political calculus evaluation, I don't see this as a good move on his part - the hardline of the conservative base is lined up behind the quote-unquote Rebels against McCarthy. Trump throwing in on behalf of him doesn't seem like a smart move to me, just as his continued persistence on his vax position. Meanwhile DeSantis (and I'm not saying I'm supporting him) is quietly building a strong case to be the insurgent candidate.
As to whether I could suggest better options... yep - Rand, Thomas Massie, Dave Smith, Spike Cohen. Yeah, I know none of them would win because none of them are darlings of the party. But that's precisely the problem. DC is captured. It's game over when it comes to Uncle Sugar. There's no turning back from that. The ONLY solution is secession. Period. And that's kind of my point with Trump - he's either stupid (he's not) or he's playing the game... and once you start playing the game, the only way to win is to play by their rules. And "win" doesn't mean that we the people win, it means that he doesn't get his head blown off within the 4 years he's in office.
And frankly dude, I don't get how you don't get this at this point.
If someone is still falling for that conman after all evidence shows he's a conman then yes absolutely that person is an idiot. Whether there are still a lot of idiots around is somewhat irrelevant (and debatable since I don't see much enthusiasm online that doesn't reek of paid astroturf) since there's always been a lot of idiots around. Now, can Donald interest you in a $150 t-shirt? It's only available to 100 of his yugest supporters and you've been lucky enough to be selected! Act now before they're all gone!
Not really. Perhaps you forgot that nearly every candidate, if not every one, he endorsed in 2022 lost? Though I guess that could be considered politically relevant since he could just effectively sabotage Republican candidates with his endorsement.....hmmm.My point to 69360 was that they have not gone away and Trump, for good or bad, is still a potent political force to be dealt with.
Any way, so tired of talking about Trump and seeing him popping up in (injected into) every damn thread. He's only sticking around to provide more distraction, more division and to continue his grift for as long as possible.
Last edited by devil21; 01-05-2023 at 11:56 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
I'll be surprised (and this is not a prediction, just a speculation) if he even bothers to make a 2024 run, at this point.
The problem with listening to you is that you believe a lot of the mainstream media hoaxes. Trump's record in 2022 was actually VERY good. At least 80-90%.
It makes me wonder how many of the other hoaxes you believe that affect your decision.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I didn't forget that, because it didn't happen.
In 2022 Trump endorsed a total of 495 candidates.
241 he endorsed in the primaries. 94 percent won.
254 he endorsed in the general election. 83 percent won.
This is the point I was making to 69360.
Love him or hate him, you cannot address whatever issue you have with him by just making $#@! up.
ETA - And you won't get very far calling them Trumpkins or Trump-humpers or whatever other insult you want to throw at them that you picked up from the Marxist media organs.
The fact of the matter is that the majority of people at a Trump rally, politically, want the same thing all of us here want.
Save your insults for the demons of the Marxist left who really are on a campaign to bring about a new dark age of death.
And are currently way ahead in the game.
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 01-05-2023 at 12:09 PM.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
Look at the trend. Trump's numbers are falling fast there is no denying it. DeSantis will lead all the polls soon.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...tion-7548.html
Fair enough on the raw statistics but if you look at a random sampling of the "wins" at the link you'll see that very few of them were in closely contested races. Endorsing a Republican in a R+25 district in a general election or is already polling at 70% in the primary isn't going to make or break a Republican candidate's campaign. Nor is it a risk to endorse incumbents. I should have been more specific that his endorsements didn't equate to wins in contested races in most cases.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
Maybe he will, I hope that he does.
But the fact is that Trump is still almost 20 points ahead of everybody else, that makes him still relevant and his supporters as well.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
You are wrong again. Trump voters have a long history of disagreeing with him. Trump voters aren't just cult members that do whatever Trump tells them to. Trump gets support when he taps into the frustrations that voters care about. Trump gets told to $#@! off when goes against those same voters.
Its funny to me how some people want Republicans to act just like Democrats and do what they are told.
On the left, AOC and others pretended they were going to stand up to Pelosi, only to fall in line and do what they were told to do.
On the right, we see 20 Congressmen standing strong against the GOP establishment regardless of the coordinated efforts by McCarthy, Trump, the MSM, Hannity, the NY Times, etc.
All McCarthy needs to do is make a deal with the 20 conservatives and yet he refuses and fails. Not impressive leadership.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
Trump supporters apparently want what Trump doesn't want, which is to say a speaker other than Kevin McCarthy. I think that is the broader issue at hand.
Meanwhile, in Ohio, ‘Moderate’ Republican Jason Stephens snatches Ohio House Speaker position in surprise upset. Could never happen in the US House of Representatives though.
Moderately conservative Republican Jason Stephens, with the help of the Democratic Party, snatched the coveted Ohio House Speaker job Tuesday from a far-right lawmaker who was already elected speaker in a non-official party vote.
In the surprise upset, Stephens, R-Kitts Hill, who is allegedly pledging to stop far-right policies and act as a full moderate, is chosen as one of the most significant and influential leaders in the state.
“I pledge to respect and to work with each and every one of you,” Stephens said in his acceptance speech.
But just a few weeks ago the GOP had another candidate in mind.
“Our caucus actually met three weeks ago and unanimously selected him,” Rep. James Hoops, R-Napoleon, said of state Rep. Derek Merrin.
Back in December, the GOP caucus voted for Merrin to be speaker, a surprise to his two other challengers – one of whom was Stephens.
Stephens decided to fight, and he fought in collaboration with the Democrats.
“They needed our votes and we took the opportunity to make sure that we were going to be working with the speaker who we felt at the end of the day would work with us on the issues we could agree on,” Democratic Minority Leader Allison Russo said.
All that matters is what the 20 holdouts want, whether they are Trump supporters or not. Kevin McCarthy could win this vote if he would make a deal with the 20, but he is too stubborn to do so.
McCarthy is failing to communicate with the 20 holdouts, so you get the same failed votes over and over and over again.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I have no doubt that McCarthy could get the votes to win if he were a better negotiator.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
Theoretically, Liz Cheney could easily become Speaker of the House. She would get enough support from the establishment of both parties to win, if they decided they needed to do that.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
(I already posted this podcast in Massie's own forum, but maybe it belongs here?)
He remembers all the tricks he's seen them use in the past. The man is always thinking!
(Also some comments about Ray Epps and the J6 committee towards the end.)
The Tom Roten Morning Show
Thomas Massie: Speaker race is good. "We're supposed to debate"
January 5, 2023 • 25 min
US Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) discusses the historic effort to elect a new Speaker in the GOP-led House.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-t...?autoplay=true
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
I think we found the circus...
(NSFW)
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
Give it up Kevin McCarthy. You have been rejected 10 times. Let it go.
McCarthy appears to suffer a historic defeat in 10th speaker ballot
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...-23/index.html
The John Birch Society is a grassroots education and action organization to return the Republic to the principles found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. -- Join the Fight!
Last edited by acptulsa; 01-05-2023 at 06:17 PM.
i contacted my congress person Beth Van Duyne and spoke to a staffer and told her to stop voting for Kevin McCarthy, stop supporting him and move on to someone else.
I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.
McCarthy might want to start using Dominion voting machines. Maybe then he'll finally get the votes he's looking for.
"Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."
Calvin Coolidge
Looks like Gaetz kept his promise and did just that.
"Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."
Calvin Coolidge
A nice win for the ruling class.
What the $#@! is a "moderate" Republican these days anyway?
No drag queeer grooming events on Sunday?
No infanticide unless the infant has milk and cookies first?
We'll send Ukraine $100 billion, but we'll do it in $20 billion increments?
We're in a fight for our $#@!ing lives against a genocidal Marxist mob of revolutionary Bolsheviks, and these $#@!s are talking about "moderates".
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 01-05-2023 at 06:59 PM.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again
"Moderate Republican" in 2023 means "hardline globalist depopulation Marxist, but gradually and with lots of oil and MIC subsidies along the way"
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
Moderate republican these days just means someone who is too cowardly to take a position and hold firm on it.
I have an aunt who supported Romney for the nomination in 2012 because "he had nice hair". That's about all the moderate republicans have to offer. They exist only to sit there and look pretty.
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 01-05-2023 at 09:15 PM.
This is getting silly.T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
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