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Thread: EVs can't work, and are just stepping stones to banning all personal transportation

  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It is an amazing transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, isn't it? If you can afford fifty grand despite devaluation making all your other expenses intolerable, then those poor slobs on the bus will pay the rest so Elon and Ford don't lose money on your new vehicle. Such a deal.
    Hey, never say they didn't offer you anything for your children's slavery - you got a shiny cool toy to play with!!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Hey, never say they didn't offer you anything for your children's slavery - you got a shiny cool toy to play with!!
    'Tis the age of they're going to do it anyway so might as well get something out of it. No wonder nobody votes on principle. We're gluttons for our doom.

  4. #663
    I got news for you. Trump convicted in two trials.
    COVID lockdowns for more than a year.
    Cost of gasoline out of your control.
    Biden won presidency with more votes than any other president in the most secure election ever.
    Man made global climate change...
    Southern border.
    Libertarian nominee..

  5. #664
    What's the phrase?

    Embrace the suck.



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  7. #665
    Mercedes C300 Curb, 3,957 lbs.
    Tesla Model Y Curb Weight Long Range Battery, Dual Motor: 4,416 lbs
    F-150 curb weight 5,684 pounds
    Accura Curb Weight (lbs) - SH-AWD, 4,503, 4,529

  8. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Mercedes C300 Curb, 3,957 lbs.
    Tesla Model Y Curb Weight Long Range Battery, Dual Motor: 4,416 lbs
    F-150 curb weight 5,684 pounds
    Accura Curb Weight (lbs) - SH-AWD, 4,503, 4,529
    Well, hell, as long as we're cherry-picking...

    Hummer EV - 9063 pounds
    Tesla Cybertruck - 6843 pounds

    (you know we're talking comparable models, right???)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Well, hell, as long as we're cherry-picking...

    Hummer EV - 9063 pounds
    Tesla Cybertruck - 6843 pounds

    (you know we're talking comparable models, right???)
    What does comparable models have to do with anything?
    I thought we were talking about abuse of the roads due to heavier vehicles.
    If heavy vehicles cause more damage maybe they should pay registration based on their weight.
    A person can drive a huge Pick Up for no other reason than personal transportation.
    What about those Lincoln's and Cadillac's of old. Or old Chevy's? Should they pay more?
    I had a couple of old GM trucks one 1969 K2500 and a C10.

    You would have to tell me the purpose of brining up the weight.
    I see no reason if personal transportation.
    You make it seem like EV's should pay more because they weigh more.
    We have a 2010 Yukon XLS that I am sure is heavier than the Tesla. My wife drove it daily to go to work just like she drives the Tesla.

  10. #668
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  11. #669
    I'm still at a conference, but will try to report back next week... In the mean time:

    Taxpayer subsidies for other people's EVs have reached an insane threshold
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...d=BingNewsSerp


    f you are a U.S. taxpayer, you have probably helped someone else in the United States buy a new or used electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid.

    You have helped many of them and paid a lot for them.

    Hordes of buyers flocking to dealerships to take advantage of the Internal Revenue Service's (IRS) updated rules have run up a hefty tab using their tax credits on shiny new EVs and plug-in hybrids, leaving American taxpayers on the hook for an earth-shattering amount of money.

    According to a statement released by the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the IRS, more than one billion dollars in tax credits have been given to buyers of qualifying EVs and plug-in vehicles since the new rules took effect this year.

    On January 1st, the IRS' updated its Code Section 30D to further incentivize the sale of EVs and plug-in hybrids. Under the new rules, qualifying buyers under certain income thresholds can get up to a $7,500 tax credit directly applied to the purchase price of qualifying EVs that meet certain sticker price restrictions, or up to $4,000 for a used EV priced at or below $25,000 that is at least two model years old.
    This new offer is a much more convenient and enticing offer than in previous years, as buyers had to claim the tax credits on their tax returns the following year.
    The government says that the billion dollars has helped put 150,000 clean vehicles on the road, with more than 90% of new car buyers and 80% of used car buyers opting for tax credits to be applied to their purchase prices at the dealership.

    "President Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act is lowering costs for electric vehicle purchases, with more than $1 billion in upfront savings for American consumers since January," said Secretary of the Treasury Janet L. Yellen. "This discount is increasing consumer choices and creating new opportunities for companies to expand their customer base."

    Not everyone in government is a fan

    On May 2, Senator John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), backed by a coalition of Republican senators including Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), and Rick Scott (R-Fla.) introduced a measure called the Eliminating Lavish Incentives to Electric (ELITE) Vehicles Act, which is set to repeal the $7,500 tax credit for new electric vehicles, as well as the $4,000 tax credit for used EVs.

    In a statement, the senator from Wyoming argued that the EV incentives benefit the "elites," leaving taxpaying Wyomingians footing the bill for what he sees as "lavish" expenditures.

    “The electric vehicle tax credit benefits the wealthiest of Americans and costs hardworking American taxpayers billions of dollars,” Barrasso said. “Working families in Wyoming shouldn’t be footing the bill for the luxuries of Biden’s climate elitists. The federal government has no business pushing Americans into expensive electric cars they don’t want or can’t afford. Repealing these tax credits keeps China out of our markets and lets Americans, not Washington, use their hard-earned money to purchase the vehicles that are best for them.”
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  12. #670
    I guess one could say that the tax credit is worthless for any person that doesn't have the taxable income. In order to get the $7500 Federal Tax Credit you must have $7500 of tax liability in the year you take delivery. You cannot carry forward any unused credit.
    So from that perspective, I guess if you don't pay taxes or that much tax, you wouldn't benefit from the tax break.

    However if you don't pay tax or that much tax, you are not paying for the other guys EV either.

    The person that is getting the tax break is the person that has tax liability. No taxes due, no tax credit for EV.

  13. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Well, hell, as long as we're cherry-picking...

    Hummer EV - 9063 pounds
    Tesla Cybertruck - 6843 pounds

    (you know we're talking comparable models, right???)
    And don't forget that the full size trucks are bigger (and heavier) than ever because the federal government has a rule in place that says mileage has to be commensurate to the size of the vehicle - so since they're not allowed to make 4800lb trucks that get 18mpg, they have to make 5600lb trucks that get 15mpg.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  14. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    And don't forget that the full size trucks are bigger (and heavier) than ever because the federal government has a rule in place that says mileage has to be commensurate to the size of the vehicle - so since they're not allowed to make 4800lb trucks that get 18mpg, they have to make 5600lb trucks that get 15mpg.
    CAFE standards were designed to increase fuel consumption from the beginning, along with safety standards, and in the beginning at least, clean air standards (they had no way to reduce oxides of nitrogen at that moment but to decrease efficiency). The oil companies owned Congress then, and own it now.

    Corporate Average Fuel Economy. Entirely designed to force Americans to use medium duty trucks as cars. They disguise these things well. Consider the electric car debacle. Most electricity is generated by burning natural gas, and electrics are the only cars as heavy as Hummers.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-14-2024 at 07:31 AM.



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  16. #673
    New Study Finds 46% Of EV Buyers In The US Want To Go Back To ICE

    https://www.carscoops.com/2024/06/ne...o-back-to-ice/

    A new survey by McKinsey suggests that 29% of EV buyers globally consider an ICE vehicle for their next purchase
    21% of the participants worldwide don’t ever want to make the switch to EVs.
    Still, 38% of non-EV owners would like a PHEV or an EV for their next car.

    It appears that EV ownership isn’t equally exciting for all buyers, as a great portion of them are considering going back to ICE. According to a new survey by McKinsey & Co., a staggering 46 percent of EV owners in the US will likely opt for a combustion-powered vehicle for their next purchase.

    More than 30,000 participants answered approximately 200 questions for McKinsey’s biennial study. To be more accurate, the survey was handed out to 15 countries, representing more than 80 percent of the global sales volume.

    As reported by Automotive News, the results suggest that 29 percent of EV owners worldwide will likely go back to ICE for their next vehicle. The most crucial factor in abandoning EVs is the state of the public charging infrastructure, followed by the high costs of ownership and the need to find a more suitable car for longer journeys.

    The percentage of EV owners willing to switch back to ICE in the US rises to 46 percent, or almost 1 in 2 current EV owners, as they claim affected by the slow rollout of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure program by the US Department of Energy. In fact, only 9 percent of the total participants in the study are happy with the expansion of the public charging network in their region, showing that this is a global issue.

    Dr. Philipp Kampshoff, leader of McKinsey’s Center for Future Mobility, believes that things will get worse, as the next generation of EV buyers “will rely on public charging much more than the current one”.

    The same survey found that 21 percent of participants don’t want to ever buy an EV, all but confirming recent findings from another study. Another interesting detail is that the minimum range expectations among consumers has grown from 270 miles (435 km) in 2022, to 291.4 miles (469 km) in 2024.

    Despite the concerns, buyers are slightly more prone to electrification compared to the previous study. More specifically, 38 percent of non-EV owners worldwide would consider PHEVs or EVs for their next purchase, representing an increase of 1 percent from two years ago.

    According to Kevin Laczkowski, senior partner and global co-leader of McKinsey’s Automotive & Assembly Practice, the bottom line is that “OEMs and suppliers now have to invest in multiple technologies“, adding that “This is the ultimate uncertainty right now, like almost never before.”
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #674
    https://x.com/PeterSweden7/status/1811404338956308544

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  18. #675
    Lawsuit accuses Hyundai of faking US sales data for electric cars
    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litiga...rs-2024-07-08/
    July 8 (Reuters) - A group of Hyundai Motor dealers has sued the South Korean automobile giant in Chicago federal court for allegedly inflating sales numbers for electric vehicles while punishing franchises that would not participate in the ruse.
    The lawsuit filed on Friday by Napleton Aurora Imports in Illinois and affiliated franchises, said Hyundai Motor America Corp (HMA) pressured dealers to misuse inventory codes meant for "loaner" vehicles to exaggerate their sales figures.

    Dealers that agreed to improperly code the vehicles were rewarded by Hyundai with wholesale and retail price discounts and other incentives, according to the lawsuit.

    The complaint in Chicago accused Hyundai of fraud and violating the Robinson-Patman Act, a federal antitrust law that bars sellers from discriminating on the basis of price.
    Dealers that “played ball,” according to the lawsuit, would receive extra inventory of faster selling Hyundai models. The lawsuit said the scheme put desirable inventory in the hands of fewer dealers, depriving customers of choice, while helping Hyundai tout rosy sales figures to the public and investors.

    It said Hyundai has emphasized its sales-volume growth for electric vehicles, leading the public to believe demand was market driven.
    “Instead of organic growth fueled by desirable vehicles and consumer demand, HMA created a multitiered scheme to cause its dealers to report false sales,” the complaint said.

    The lawsuit cited statements on a phone call from a Hyundai district sales manager who said “we gotta hit a number for the press and for the Koreans.”
    The dealers said they have been denied benefits from Hyundai and asked the court to award an unspecified amount of damages to cover lost sales, revenue and profit.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  19. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Lawsuit accuses Hyundai of faking US sales data for electric cars
    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litiga...rs-2024-07-08/
    Hyundai is obviously doing it so they can keep making and selling what the public actually wants. Why are their dealers stupid enough not to play along?

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