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Thread: Ukraine application to NATO

  1. #1

    Ukraine application to NATO

    Wondering since Ukraine has now submitted an application to NATO. Has there ever been a NATO member accepted into the alliance while engaged in combat?

    Seems, this would immediately commit all members to engage in the same fight. Ane if that's the case. That pits NATO directly against Russia and their allies, no?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...to-russia-war/

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  3. #2
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
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    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    As much as I love Thomas Massie, the results from a poll he posted is not indicative of the overall sentiment of society. I am certain the results from the same poll presented by a progressive liberal would be totally different.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    As much as I love Thomas Massie, the results from a poll he posted is not indicative of the overall sentiment of society. I am certain the results from the same poll presented by a progressive liberal would be totally different.
    What are you talking about?

    Where did he say or imply that the results of his poll are in any way "indicative of the overall sentiment of society"?


  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    What are you talking about?

    Where did he say or imply that the results of his poll are in any way "indicative of the overall sentiment of society"?

    What is the purpose of a poll if it is not to gauge sentiment? What is the purpose of showing the results of the poll?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    What is the purpose of a poll if it is not to gauge sentiment? What is the purpose of showing the results of the poll?
    Again, what are you talking about?

    No one suggested that the purpose of a poll is not to "gauge sentiment". The purpose of Massie's poll was to "gauge [the] sentiment" of his followers (and assorted other Twitter users) who saw it and chose to respond - just as the purpose of polls at RPFs is to "gauge [the] sentiment" of forum members who see them and choose to respond. This is all quite obvious, and it is rather difficult to credit that it even needs to be explicitly spelled out like this. (And the same goes for "the purpose of showing the results of the poll" - which is just as obviously to publicize them.)

    Now that I've answered your question (despite that you didn't answer mine), please answer mine instead of evading it by asking more questions:

    Where did Massie say or imply that the results of his poll are in any way "indicative of the overall sentiment of society"?

  9. #8
    I am perfectly fine with european nations being in nato . I'd like to see us out. Putin is about to announce annexation of about 1/5 of ukraine and would take it all if he thought he could. We dont need any part of that.
    Do something Danke



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am perfectly fine with european nations being in nato . I'd like to see us out. Putin is about to announce annexation of about 1/5 of ukraine and would take it all if he thought he could. We dont need any part of that.
    Agree 100%.

    Let NATO deal with VVPutin without us.

    Something tells me that they would quickly relearn the art of good faith negotiating.

    VVPutin has been reliably reasonable.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am perfectly fine with european nations being in nato . I'd like to see us out. Putin is about to announce annexation of about 1/5 of ukraine and would take it all if he thought he could. We dont need any part of that.
    Why not let Russia and Ukraine into NATO at this point? Two NATO members fighting each other. LOL

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Again, what are you talking about?

    No one suggested that the purpose of a poll is not to "gauge sentiment". The purpose of Massie's poll was to "gauge [the] sentiment" of his followers (and assorted other Twitter users) who saw it and chose to respond - just as the purpose of polls at RPFs is to "gauge [the] sentiment" of forum members who see them and choose to respond. This is all quite obvious, and it is rather difficult to credit that it even needs to be explicitly spelled out like this. (And the same goes for "the purpose of showing the results of the poll" - which is just as obviously to publicize them.)

    Now that I've answered your question (despite that you didn't answer mine), please answer mine instead of evading it by asking more questions:

    Where did Massie say or imply that the results of his poll are in any way "indicative of the overall sentiment of society"?
    Whatever. I guess with that huge percentage against Ukraine joining NATO, they will never get accepted into NATO.

  14. #12
    Kissinger has already said "no"....lol
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  15. #13
    Looks like they won't. Kissinger's vote is a huger percentage than any number of poll respondents, regardless of how scientifically they were chosen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  16. #14
    CLEVELAND, Ohio – Federal attorneys Thursday continued their legal assault on a Ukrainian oligarch who is suspected of laundering tens of millions of dollars through U.S. real estate, including properties in Cleveland.

    Prosecutors sought to seize more than $6 million linked to office towers in Dallas that are tied to Igor Kolomoisky, a billionaire industrialist. The filing in U.S. District Court in Miami is the Justice Department’s fourth attempt to obtain assets tied to Kolomoisky and his associates through forfeiture proceedings. It claims the funds are linked to international money laundering.

    (Kolomosky owned the network that made Zelinsky, & they have some business interests together )

    Press reported on these two questionable relationship, before Z got elected

  17. #15
    What purpose has NATO ever had aside from Phucking with(threatening) Russia?

    I am unaware of any other purpose.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Whatever.
    LOL. I take it you're not going to answer the question, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    I guess with that huge percentage against Ukraine joining NATO, they will never get accepted into NATO.
    So not only are you evading the question, but you're doubling down on the obviously absurd notion that Massie (or anyone else) seriously imagines the results of his poll are somehow "indicative of the overall sentiment of society".

    Alrighty, then.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 10-02-2022 at 11:59 AM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So not only are you evading the question, but you're doubling down on the obviously absurd notion that Massie (or anyone else) seriously imagines the results of his poll are somehow "indicative of the overall sentiment of society".

    Alrighty, then.
    And tossing in the more absurd notion that society has any say in the matter whatsoever.

    What's the movie quote from U571? "This isn't a God damned democracy!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    What purpose has NATO ever had aside from Phucking with(threatening) Russia?

    I am unaware of any other purpose.
    Besides that, it is used as a domination/spy network against Italy, Germany, France, and all the other members. This is why DeGaulle was reluctant and refused American military bases. As defeated enemies, Germany and Italy had no choice. NATO bosses these countries along with the intelligence agencies, although resistance is in the people, especially lately. It also functions as a Military Industrial Complex growth/investment scheme that politicians, ex-military and banks draw public funding from, so they have a constant source of passive individual and institutional income. Just the US taxpayer monies sent to Ukraine this year are greater than the entire 2021 Russian military budget. Russia achieved capability parity because unlike the collective West, it is not corrupt financially.
    Last edited by Snowball; 10-02-2022 at 01:16 PM.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am perfectly fine with european nations being in nato . I'd like to see us out. Putin is about to announce annexation of about 1/5 of ukraine and would take it all if he thought he could. We dont need any part of that.
    I don't think so. I think Russia wants Odessa and the rest of the coast to link up with Transnistria. Them they would have the useful parts, the industrial areas and the ports. I don't think think they want the capital or the rest of the country. It would be too hard to control and bog them down for decades controlling a hostile population.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    LOL. I take it you're not going to answer the question, then?



    So not only are you evading the question, but you're doubling down on the obviously absurd notion that Massie (or anyone else) seriously imagines the results of his poll are somehow "indicative of the overall sentiment of society".

    Alrighty, then.
    I think there is some tendency here to run with, and read too much into, polls, even though we should know better.

    I would personally love to see the actual number of people who are opposed/favorable to Ukraine joining NATO, but we'd never know that. You won't get that from Gallop, and you won't get it from a twitter poll.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I think there is some tendency here to run with, and read too much into, polls, even though we should know better.

    I would personally love to see the actual number of people who are opposed/favorable to Ukraine joining NATO, but we'd never know that. You won't get that from Gallop, and you won't get it from a twitter poll.
    My guess would be pretty high in favor of joining NATO. The propaganda machine is in full motion and its effects are visible even amongst communities who should know better.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Besides that, it is used as a domination/spy network against Italy, Germany, France, and all the other members. This is why DeGaulle was reluctant and refused American military bases. As defeated enemies, Germany and Italy had no choice. NATO bosses these countries along with the intelligence agencies, although resistance is in the people, especially lately. It also functions as a Military Industrial Complex growth/investment scheme that politicians, ex-military and banks draw public funding from, so they have a constant source of passive individual and institutional income. Just the US taxpayer monies sent to Ukraine this year are greater than the entire 2021 Russian military budget. Russia achieved capability parity because unlike the collective West, it is not corrupt financially.
    I had read somewhere the US gov both parties are planning to spend Billions/One billion each month to Ukraine.
    This is absurd how much they care about losing another proxy war than the concerns of their economy and country.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    I had read somewhere the US gov both parties are planning to spend Billions/One billion each month to Ukraine.
    This is absurd how much they care about losing another proxy war than the concerns of their economy and country.
    Yea but Putin is literally Hitler but worse, so if anything we should be sending more billions
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    I had read somewhere the US gov both parties are planning to spend Billions/One billion each month to Ukraine.
    This is absurd how much they care about losing another proxy war than the concerns of their economy and country.
    Not sure what you mean. The monies go to NGO's and Defense Industries and offshore accounts that cycle back to the politicians.

    They are paying themselves.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Not sure what you mean. The monies go to NGO's and Defense Industries and offshore accounts that cycle back to the politicians.

    They are paying themselves.
    Ah NGOs you mean like NED as well? do they realize those such polices arent going to work anymore?
    They should stop doing this and focus more on the economy and southern borders if they ever want to compete with India or China.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Ah NGOs you mean like NED as well? do they realize those such polices arent going to work anymore?
    They should stop doing this and focus more on the economy and southern borders if they ever want to compete with India or China.
    No. NED is an expenditure of the government for foreign regime change. It does not donate to domestic politicians, or allocate slush funds for their accountants to hide.

    It does this in other lands. There could be some indirect financial benefit, if it's done right, but it's risky.

    Not as clean as direct donations, corporate appointments, lobbying, contract rigging, kickbacks, etc.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.



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