Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 226

Thread: The U.S. Constitution: Pro-Freedom?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    And look what the CONstitution did. Commander in Chief ring a little bell?
    and that only upon a Declared War..and only over Military Forces..

    and the Standing Army was to Be Disbanded..


    Violations of the Constitution are Not valid arguments against the Document Violated.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    The same recourse they would have if it didn't exist: the balls to do something about it, to alter or even abolish government. But again that responsibility rests entirely on the people, not a piece of paper. You could sneak into the national archives and replace the Constitution with some kindergartener's first finger-painting, and it wouldn't change much.

    However on my list of priorities of things to change about the federal government, getting rid of the Constitution and the BoR with it, would not make the first thousand pages.

    Especially when there are people who are ALSO calling for the abolition of that 'racist document hatched by white nationalists' because they want to rule uncontested in a vacuum devoid of any common principles. I cannot abide that.

    The constitution, at least, is as Jefferson put it:

    "a text to which those who are watchful may again rally & recall the people: they fix too for the people principles for their political creed."
    You mean like insurrection, like on Jan6? The CONstitution doesn't permit such acts. As it stands, Fed.gov just recently put The People in-their-place. AmIRight?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Simple: The power to TAX, and delegate authority. Try telling Fed.gov you disagree with something on a personal level and that you don't want to pay taxes toward that. And State.gov too for that matter.
    Until The Socialist Coup and the Central Bank,,tax was minimal.. and NONE on Guns.

    and you could order a Machine Gun from Sears,, Mail delivery without Question.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    and that only upon a Declared War..and only over Military Forces..

    and the Standing Army was to Be Disbanded..


    Violations of the Constitution are Not valid arguments against the Document Violated.
    Anytime you "vote" and give your "CENSENT" = unlimited powers to the prez, like GWB did for an example.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You mean like insurrection, like on Jan6? The CONstitution doesn't permit such acts. As it stands, Fed.gov just recently put The People in-their-place. AmIRight?
    If you were standing in front of me,, you wouldn't be.

    Phuck You..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Until The Socialist Coup and the Central Bank,,tax was minimal.. and NONE on Guns.

    and you could order a Machine Gun from Sears,, Mail delivery without Question.
    So "minimal" is good. Got it.

    Tell me, when will there be a time, permitted by the CONstitution, where we won't have to pay any tax if we don't want to, and Fed/State.gov will "allow" people to have machine guns and hand grenades again? You know, to beat up those LEO who like to kill first even when the person isn't harming person or property?
    Last edited by PAF; 09-20-2022 at 01:10 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    If you were standing in front of me,, you wouldn't be.

    Phuck You..
    Well, idle words on a screen, but whateva. I've delt with many in this country and others. I don't fear too easily, prolly cause I'm not afraid to die. I'd much rather spring for a beer ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You mean like insurrection, like on Jan6? The CONstitution doesn't permit such acts. As it stands, Fed.gov just recently put The People in-their-place. AmIRight?
    Well let's not forget that half the people here joined in the chorus of admonishing and ridiculing them, for specifics I'm not going to get into here, because I know how quickly it would derail the thread.

    About that little insurrection . . .
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-20-2022 at 01:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Well, idle words on a screen, but whateva. I've delt with many in this country and others. I don't fear too easily, prolly cause I'm not afraid to die. I'd much rather spring for a beer ;-)
    Give the man credit. Decades ago he took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the thing, and he's still trying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Give the man credit. Decades ago he took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the thing, and he's still trying.
    The CONstitution "made him do it" lol
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I'd much rather spring for a beer ;-)
    save the beer for this one,, you seem so Same Page.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Here is why it is so difficult to reach people who have been indoctrinated, most if not all, of their lives: One provides them with something, such as the truth, hard-evidence, examples, and they immediately And yet they ignore everything that you try to get across to them, and expect you to revert backward and follow their time-proven failed path.

    As to your last sentence, liberty comes from within. I do not have a communist mentality where one "side" is better than the "other" therefore I must choose between the two. If each individual embraces and practices individualism and sets the example for others, maybe it still would not be overwhelming, but certainly would be more accepted, and we would be a little freer.

    @nobody's_hero and @donnay, did you even take the time to listen to the entire short video? I would be more than happy to debate the actual content of what was said in the video, if there are specifics examples that you disagree with.
    I am with @pcosmar. I have heard all the crap before, I listened to the first 5 minutes, I am just not interested.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    save the beer for this one,, you seem so Same Page.
    I tried to be polite and listen to the first couple of minutes, but... a chick with a mask, a bunch of dudes "pledging" to a flag instead of themselves, I lost interest. To me it looks like another version of the commies I can't stand.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I am with @pcosmar. I have heard all the crap before, I listened to the first 5 minutes, I am just not interested.
    not far from him to her.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    The same recourse they would have if it didn't exist: the balls to do something about it, to alter or even abolish government.
    That uncodified, vague sentiment is from the DoI, not the CON. Unlike the state constititions and the AoC, the CON did not respect the states as sovereign entities. The First Amendment was a shot across the bow. The First Amendment prohibits the Congress from making a law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Therefore most state constitutions were made irrelevant to the federal body right form the get-go. To consider how the CON differed in its First Amendment from the states, see these links:
    https://investortimes.com/freedomout...n-state-level/
    http://restore-christian-america.org/statechurches.html
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I am with @pcosmar. I have heard all the crap before, I listened to the first 5 minutes, I am just not interested.
    So, what is exactly that you want me to "Educate and UNITE" about? I lost track.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  20. #47
    Even within the so-called “liberty movement” telling people the truth tends to piss them off, apparently.

    Larkin is right.

    The CONstitution was a Federalist coup. The only part of it worth the parchment it was written on is the Bill of Rights, and even that has been grossly insufficient to the purpose of securing liberty.

    We either seize and hold our liberty as truly free people or we don’t. CONstitutions don’t secure liberty. People determined to be free do that. Clinging to the fantasy of the CONstitution just gets in the way and produces no useful progress toward the goal of being free.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Even within the so-called “liberty movement” telling people the truth tends to piss them off, apparently.

    Larkin is right.

    The CONstitution was a Federalist coup. The only part of it worth the parchment it was written on is the Bill of Rights, and even that has been grossly insufficient to the purpose of securing liberty.

    We either seize and hold our liberty as truly free people or we don’t. CONstitutions don’t secure liberty. People determined to be free do that. Clinging to the fantasy of the CONstitution just gets in the way and produces no useful progress toward the goal of being free.
    So let's get rid of it. See if anything changes.

    I would probably make a copy of it and stash it somewhere first though, just in case things don't work out as wonderfully as advertised.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    CONstitutions don’t secure liberty. People determined to be free do that.
    Do they really though?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    So let's get rid of it. See if anything changes.
    I already did that. I know I keep mentioning it, but An Agorist Primer can really help wake one up to what one can really do ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I already did that. I know I keep mentioning it, but An Agorist Primer can really help wake one up to what one can really do ;-)
    Yeah, and as far as I can tell, you being an agorist has changed nothing about the existence of the United States Government. —Which, incidentally, has been my point this entire thread.

    The moment you use force, particularly any form of organized force, even if only for the purpose to defend your rights, you have formed a de facto government. And you wouldn't even need a constitution to do it.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-20-2022 at 01:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  26. #52
    Those that support (via their vote) a system of governance that doesn't allow for one to opt out of (no longer consent to) and remain on the land of their birth , refuse to recognize they are in part, imposing their collective will on others with no moral foundation from which to do so....Why won't you let me be free?

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    So let's get rid of it. See if anything changes.

    I would probably make a copy of it and stash it somewhere first though, just in case things don't work out as wonderfully as advertised.

    You’re apparently missing the point.

    There’s no need to “get rid of it.” It’s been a dead letter from the word “go” anyway. The ink hadn’t even fully dried on the parchment before the Federalist usurpers started violating their precious CONstitution.

    As Spooner correctly noted it was either intended from the start to produce the monstrosity of a government that we’ve got, or it was powerless to prevent it. Either way it certainly does not deserve the reverence and worship bordering on zealotry that CONstitution lovers so generously heap upon it. We either face reality and act in accordance with it, or we let comforting fantasy render us ineffectual. I choose the former.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Yeah, and as far as I can tell, you being an agorist has changed nothing about the existence of the United States Government. —Which, incidentally, has been my point this entire thread.

    Read @mt4rp and @CCTelander responses above. They get +REP.

    @nobody's_hero, you are thinking and putting too much thought and energy into collectiveness. Think and act as a sovereign individual, perhaps.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Think and act as a sovereign individual, perhaps.
    That won't put Gas in the Tank..

    You need a Corporation and Supply Chain.

    No man is an Island.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Read @mt4rp and @CCTelander responses above. They get +REP.

    @nobody's_hero, you are thinking and putting too much thought and energy into collectiveness. Think and act as a sovereign individual, perhaps.
    We're just talking past each other.

    As the Texan often sarcastically (but correctly) points out, collectivism is unavoidable. If for example, you have a bunch of individuals who all collectively agree that the rights of the individual should not be violated, well that creates somewhat of conundrum doesn't it? It's like, do you want to be part of that group or . . .lol.

    The thing is, you're going to need a group like that if a (usually much larger) collective of people who hold absolute disdain for the rights of the individual shows up at your door, if you have any hope of resistance. And that, kids, is how baby governments are made.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-20-2022 at 02:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    PAF we agree on a lot but agorism and praxeology are not among them. You should consider the ironies of your position. When you have a materialist midset, that is restrictive and not applicable to the human soul in its totality. The human soul is imbued by God with a desire for more than materialism and man cannot be reduced to biological causes. Also, it is inherent in the human nature to collectivise and form groups, not only for the acclimation of basic needs but for comraderie and cultural spirit. Agorism is a self-defeating principle on the macro level. All societies need laws because humans are a fallen creature. There is no absolute freedom in this world except in our hearts as we contemplate and experience the Spirit and long for the restoration of all things.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    We're just talking past each other.

    As the Texan often sarcastically (but correctly) points out, collectivism is unavoidable. If for example, you have a bunch of individuals who all collectively agree that the rights of the individual should not be violated, well that creates somewhat of conundrum doesn't it? It's like, do you want to be part of that group or . . .lol.

    The thing is, you're going to need a group like that if a collective of people who hold absolute disdain for the rights of the individual shows up at your door, if you have any hope of resistance. And that, kids, is how baby governments are made.
    One doesn't need "government" to form groups of voluntarists. I doubt very much a bunch of leftists, or rightists will bang on my door, and if they did, I can defend myself, and if not, I know enough people who would stand by my side.

    But then, like Larken truthfully states, who has Stole, Murdered and Conquered more than all of the individual criminals in this world put together? Yep - Government. So why on earth would I want said Government to solve my problems for me?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    We're just talking past each other.

    As the Texan often sarcastically (but correctly) points out, collectivism is unavoidable. If for example, you have a bunch of individuals who all collectively agree that the rights of the individual should not be violated, well that creates somewhat of conundrum doesn't it? It's like, do you want to be part of that group or . . .lol.

    The thing is, you're going to need a group like that if a (usually much larger) collective of people who hold absolute disdain for the rights of the individual shows up at your door, if you have any hope of resistance. And that, kids, is how baby governments are made.

    No, actually, it isn’t.

    An agreement to VOLUNTARILY cooperate for our mutual defense is the very farthest thing from a government imaginable. For it to become a government a small group of it’s members would have to be given authority to coerce everyone else into or out of certain otherwise allowable behaviors against their will. Since no such thing is necessary or desirable to provide for mutual defense, no government ever need come into being.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    PAF we agree on a lot but agorism and praxeology are not among them. You should consider the ironies of your position. When you have a materialist midset, that is restrictive and not applicable to the human soul in its totality. The human soul is imbued by God with a desire for more than materialism and man cannot be reduced to biological causes. Also, it is inherent in the human nature to collectivise and form groups, not only for the acclimation of basic needs but for comraderie and cultural spirit. Agorism is a self-defeating principle on the macro level. All societies need laws because humans are a fallen creature. There is no absolute freedom in this world except in our hearts as we contemplate and experience the Spirit and long for the restoration of all things.
    I understand some of the points that you make, so respectfully we will agree to disagree. I can only speak for myself, and maybe offer an alternative for what might work for others as well. I can tell you that Agorism isn't an overnight lesson. It takes thought, practice and a willingness to weight Risk-versus-Reward which eventually becomes a way of life. For me personally it has worked out tremendously well and I will never go back. Everybody's life is different, with different sets of circumstances. One thing is certain - truth, NAP (unless in self-defense) and a desire to make ones own path should always be promoted and never stifled. What other people choose to do, that's on them.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 43
    Last Post: 10-19-2011, 08:59 PM
  2. Freedom Watch 01/11/11 Assault On The Constitution
    By CaseyJones in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-11-2011, 09:01 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-03-2010, 02:26 AM
  4. Constitution Worship Undermines the Cause For Freedom
    By powerofreason in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 169
    Last Post: 07-10-2009, 10:24 PM
  5. lobbyist group for the constitution and freedom!?!?!?!
    By mysticgeek in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-13-2008, 10:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •