Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Libertarian Party Faces State Rebellions

  1. #1

    Libertarian Party Faces State Rebellions

    Upon taking control of the Libertarian Party (L.P.) this May, leaders from the internal bloc known as the Mises Caucus quickly adopted "national divorce" as one of the retooled party's core rallying cries on Twitter. New national Chair Angela McArdle proudly tweeted that she was "organizing the LP like an insurgency and preparing for counter insurgency operations."

    Over the past three weeks, minus the bloody violence part, the state Libertarian affiliates in New Mexico and Virginia have indeed divorced themselves from the party's national leadership. But the Libertarian National Committee (LNC) is not letting them go peacefully without a fight.

    On August 25, the Libertarian Party of New Mexico (LPNM), which achieved major-party ballot-access status in 2018 thanks to the 9 percent presidential showing in 2016 in that state by former two-term Gov. Gary Johnson, announced that it was disaffiliating from the LNC.

    "You have conspired, with a faction inimical to the principles of libertarianism, to impose upon us officers and governing documents foreign to our rules, unchosen by our members, and unacknowledged by the laws of our state," state Chairman Chris Luchini wrote, in a long bill of particulars. "You have adopted messaging and communications hostile to the principles for which the Libertarian Party was founded, serving no purpose other than to antagonize and embarrass."

    At issue was an August 9 LNC letter declaring the New Mexico state party's July 12 Constitutional Convention to be "null and void" due to "multiple" procedural violations, involving the proper advance notice and the manner of the convention (electronic). In a phone interview last week, Luchini theorized that the LNC's real objection was to a bylaw change the LPNM made at that convention limiting the number of annual executive committee personnel changes to not more than two, thereby preventing the Mises Caucus (or any other bloc) from winning complete control of the state party in a single convention.

    While Luchini granted procedural errors over advance notice on an earlier convention prior to the July one, he said the LNC's responses have been unduly and unreasonably punitive and harassing.* "Violate a procedural rule, God forbid, commit heresy against Robert's Rules of Order, they think us making a mistake justified any action on their part." Rather than submit to national discipline, the LPNM chose secession.

    No, we break up with you, the LNC responded in a meeting this past Sunday night. The National Committee refused to recognize the LPNM's right to exit, and instead voted 14–1 (with two abstentions) to disaffiliate itself from the New Mexicans. But this divorce will come with a likely custody battle—over the name.

    "If state parties choose to disaffiliate and operate completely independent of the national LP," McArdle wrote to me this week, "they will need to come up with a new name."

    Luchini, for one, finds it ironic that the LNC is threatening to sue—use state force—to protect its trademark over the term "Libertarian Party,"* especially considering that the LPNM had been in operation for decades before the LNC got around to trademarking the term in 2000.

    The LNC anticipates that a new group of New Mexico Libertarians—the national party bylaws require just 10—will arise to form a new state-level L.P. in New Mexico that the LNC will then recognize as an official affiliate. But the existing ballot access relationship with the state of New Mexico remains with the disaffiliated party for now. According to a special rule of order passed at that same LNC meeting Sunday night, "The petitioners [for such a new party must have] held a public meeting which was open to all current national Party members and immediately previous affiliate Party members," with reasonable notice.

    That same day, the Virginia Libertarian Party's state central committee (SCC) announced that it had dissolved itself after a 7–5 vote (with one abstention), complaining that "the national image of the party" was now "functionally indistinct from other alt-right parties and movements." The party's website and Facebook page disappeared; its email addresses stopped working.

    The move was illegal, LNC Secretary Caryn Ann Harlos says, though the Virginia State Corporation Commission issued a letter Tuesday stating that the dissolution complies "with the requirements of law." A parliamentarian consulted by the LNC countered that the dissolution required a vote of full party membership, while now-former Virginia L.P. chair Holly Ward believes that the SCC itself is the only relevant "members" who needed to approve. McArdle also said in a post to the LNC's business listserv that "corporate dissolution papers do not make or break an affiliate and lots of affiliates don't have corporate status." Technically, in Virginia another legal step known as "termination" must also occur, after the Virginia party's assets have been properly distributed.

    Ward charged in a phone interview that the LNC has become a "fraud," properly backing neither Libertarian candidates nor Libertarian messaging, in a state whose party achieved a remarkable 6.5 percent running Robert Sarvis for governor in 2013 (and another exceptional-for-Libertarians 2.4 percent running Sarvis for Senate in 2014). The national party has made the Libertarian banner toxic to potential candidates, Ward claimed, which she thinks helps explain why there are no L.P. candidates on Virginia ballots this year. In doing candidate outreach, Ward says, she found "interested parties declined to run based on the current image and narrative of the national party."

    Several local and regional Libertarian organizations in Virginia objected to the SCC's abrupt self-destruction, and the conflict is ongoing: Disgruntled Virginia L.P. members are being asked to write letters of complaint to the state government (a move Ward considers a potential use of state force to achieve a political goal, and thus a Libertarian no-no), and the Libertarian Party of Northern Virginia has been decrying the move and vowing to "continue to work with affiliates across the Commonwealth to conduct the business of the party," state party dissolution or not. There are various means for members to call for a new special convention and elect new officers who don't want to dissolve, Harlos says, working on the presumption that the dissolution motion should be considered illegitimate.

    "While the LNC has had to referee some internal party disputes recently," McArdle wrote in her email, "we're still focused on advancing the message of liberty, supporting candidates, and moving the needle in the direction of freedom. I appreciate how level-headed and calm the remaining LPVA officers have been and anticipate they will get their affiliate back in order quickly."

    Virginia and New Mexico are not the only states experiencing Libertarian turmoil. Massachusetts now has two functioning parties using the name Libertarian, only one of which is recognized by the LNC.

    The Bay State fight emanated from a Mises-associated bloc of members from the state party calling for a (bylaw-legal) special convention in December 2021, that the old guard attempted to quash in January 2022 by expelling from the party all who called for it. Competing conventions were then held in April and the newer, Mises-oriented bloc is the one the LNC now recognizes as an affiliate.

    Still, all the Libertarian candidates on the Massachusetts ballot this year are the ones put forward by the older body, doing business as the "Libertarian Association of Massachusetts." Andrew Cordio, chair of the officially recognized "Libertarian Party of Massachusetts," said in a phone interview this week that he's currently more focused on membership and volunteer growth and outreach than candidates and ballot access.

    In 2021, the Mises Caucus faction, then influential but not dominant on the LNC, was on the opposite side of a state-disaffiliation case, successfully blocking a move to break ties with a New Hampshire L.P. that was seen by the old guard as being too "toxic" for the national brand. (Roughly, some accuse the Mises side of hypocrisy, seeing the current New Mexico situation as analogous, except now the Mises crowd are for disaffiliating a state party that displeased them.) The attempted purge of the New Hampshire party, which has since attracted national attention for various inflammatory tweets, led directly in June 2021 to the resignation of then–national Chair Joseph Bishop-Henchman.

    More at: https://reason.com/2022/09/15/libert...te-rebellions/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    This type of infighting within the LP is one of the [handful] of reasons it won't amount to much, with or without the MC.
    Does every party have this? Sure. But, the difference is the LP lacks tens of millions of members (and authority and respectable figures) in which the majority can drown out the pettiness of the smaller factional groups.

    "Getting libertarians to agree on something is like herding cats" so how some of the sayings go.

    Again, I think the MC taking over the LP is great and I will continue to cheer them on, but I think it's a take over 10-20 years too late as we're finally staring down the barrel of tyranny after years of warning about it. Tell me, how many mayors are LP? Governors? State reps? State Sens? Federal Reps? Federal Sens?

    Arguing that we're going to change that now, or in two years, or four years, is simply too late. Arguing that we still just need to "educate" people is a strategy that should have kept up post-2012 when we all tucked our tails between our legs and vanished post-Ron Paul.

    The war is happening now and the LP cannot do anything to help us fight back against the leftist domination of all of our institutions. And while some of us here may still think the MAGA people are... it's no doubt that they are the biggest bloc of active voters right now in the non-leftist sphere. Trying to seek alliances with them in common areas is often tossed aside by libertarians thinking they're better. When Hilary and the MSM refer to the Deplorables, they're not just talking about MAGA people; they're talking about everyone else who doesn't bow to them. That includes us.

    I'm still waiting to hear which governor has been doing a better job for liberty and pushing back against D.C. than DeSantis. I've asked this question multiple times on this forum from the libertarian purists and no one has provided an answer still, yet they lambast DeSantis.
    Last edited by Okie RP fan; 09-16-2022 at 07:18 AM.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  4. #3
    Mutually-Assured Destruction in the LP.

    I hope the MC can overcome this nonsense. Unfortunately, they seem to be spending most of their time defending their rear.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #4
    Kind if an ironic situation.

    LPN adopts a “national divorce” plank, and then turns and tries to stop a succession.

    State LP says they will leave the national party because they don't agree with divorce, and then files for divorce.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 09-16-2022 at 10:09 AM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Mutually-Assured Destruction in the LP.
    The government workers have all the advantage. They don't have to build or maintain anything. They only have to cause enough drama to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

    It's a lot easier to tear down than to build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  7. #6
    Excellent.

    "Our nation's growing ideological self-segregation is proceeding nicely." -- Michael Malice

    These are a bunch of sore-loser sour grapes who resent no longer being "big fish in a little pond" and who are throwing a spoiled-brat hissy fit (and trying to smash and break things as they show themselves out the door) because they are not in charge any more. Good riddance, and may the house cleaning continue apace.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  8. #7
    Impromptu live stream by Caryn Ann Harlos (Libertarian Party National Secretary from 2018 to present):

    @ 3:05 : start / prefatory remarks
    @ 8:40 : disclaimers
    @ 12:10 : technical analysis re: dissolution/disaffiliation
    @ 1:17:15 : criticism of the Reason article

    EVERYTHING THAT REASON GOT WRONG about the LPVA plus dishonest Luchini strikes again!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmBUZYXant0

  9. #8
    On August 25, the Libertarian Party of New Mexico (LPNM), which achieved major-party ballot-access status in 2018 thanks to the 9 percent presidential showing in 2016 in that state by former two-term Gov. Gary Johnson, announced that it was disaffiliating from the LNC.
    Where is Gary Johnson?



    https://twitter.com/LPNH/status/1570573707063758848
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 09-16-2022 at 06:30 PM.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    This type of infighting within the LP is one of the [handful] of reasons it won't amount to much, with or without the MC.
    Does every party have this? Sure. But, the difference is the LP lacks tens of millions of members (and authority and respectable figures) in which the majority can drown out the pettiness of the smaller factional groups.

    "Getting libertarians to agree on something is like herding cats" so how some of the sayings go.

    Again, I think the MC taking over the LP is great and I will continue to cheer them on, but I think it's a take over 10-20 years too late as we're finally staring down the barrel of tyranny after years of warning about it. Tell me, how many mayors are LP? Governors? State reps? State Sens? Federal Reps? Federal Sens?

    Arguing that we're going to change that now, or in two years, or four years, is simply too late. Arguing that we still just need to "educate" people is a strategy that should have kept up post-2012 when we all tucked our tails between our legs and vanished post-Ron Paul.

    The war is happening now and the LP cannot do anything to help us fight back against the leftist domination of all of our institutions. And while some of us here may still think the MAGA people are... it's no doubt that they are the biggest bloc of active voters right now in the non-leftist sphere. Trying to seek alliances with them in common areas is often tossed aside by libertarians thinking they're better. When Hilary and the MSM refer to the Deplorables, they're not just talking about MAGA people; they're talking about everyone else who doesn't bow to them. That includes us.

    I'm still waiting to hear which governor has been doing a better job for liberty and pushing back against D.C. than DeSantis. I've asked this question multiple times on this forum from the libertarian purists and no one has provided an answer still, yet they lambast DeSantis.
    The Libertarian Party is not going to save us.

    Neither is Ron DeSantis.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 09-16-2022 at 02:57 PM.

  12. #10

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The Libertarian Party is not going to save us.

    Neither is Ron DeSantis.
    I think of it a little differently. Clearly DeSantis isn't going to save us, and we are incapable of using the LP to save ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I think of it a little differently. Clearly DeSantis isn't going to save us, and we are incapable of using the LP to save ourselves.
    After all this time, it still amazes me how people don't see that DeSantis is intentionally being set up to be DJT 2.0. Lots of talk, all the media attention but a history that tells a very different story.

    https://www.flgov.com/2019/05/30/pho...min-netanyahu/
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  15. #13
    Would this count as a rebellion?

    Or would the national LP also be willing to state the obvious?




Similar Threads

  1. New Libertarian Party State Representative Expected
    By Keith and stuff in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-26-2017, 09:09 PM
  2. NH State Representative Joins Libertarian Party
    By CaseyJones in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-16-2017, 08:18 PM
  3. McAfee TownHall: The State of the Libertarian Party
    By younglibertarian in forum Liberty Campaigns
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 05-24-2016, 10:48 PM
  4. State GOP leaders crush 'Never Trump’ neocon globalist tinged rebellions
    By RandallFan in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-15-2016, 12:55 PM
  5. Libertarian Party Response to State of Union
    By Matt Collins in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-30-2008, 07:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •