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Thread: Donít Charge that Electric Vehicle: California Braces for Energy Shortage Thru Labor Day

  1. #1

    Donít Charge that Electric Vehicle: California Braces for Energy Shortage Thru Labor Day

    Donít Charge that Electric Vehicle: California Braces for Energy Shortage Thru Labor Day

    https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...hru-labor-day/

    JOEL B. POLLAK 31 Aug 2022

    California will suffer an energy shortage and ďFlex AlertsĒ through Labor Day due to high temperatures, and residents will be asked to conserve electricity during afternoons and evenings, which means refraining from charging electric vehicles, among other uses.

    The Sacramento Bee reported Tuesday (emphasis added):

    Hoping to avoid blackouts, the California Independent System Operator, which manages the stateís power grid, warned Tuesday that it probably will issue a series of Flex Alerts over the next several days. Flex Alerts are voluntary calls for conservation during the afternoon and evening hours, when energy use tends to soar. Residents will be asked to turn up their thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using dishwashers or other large appliances, and hold off on charging their electric vehicles, all during the 4-9 p.m. time frame.

    Already, the grid manager has issues a ďrestricted maintenance operationsĒ notice starting Wednesday ó a directive telling power generators and transmission line operators to delay routine maintenance that would take generating or transmission equipment offline.

    The San Francisco Chronicle explained further:

    The grid is expected to be under the most strain on Monday, with a projected peak load of 48,225 megawatts, [Anne Gonzales of the the California Independent System Operator] said. Peak loads on Sunday, when temperatures in parts of the Bay Area are most likely to reach triple digits, are also expected to reach more than 48,000 megawatts, according to Gonzales.

    Ö

    Because the weekendís heat wave will align with high temperatures throughout the West, Californiaís ability to import power from neighboring states may be limited, according to the grid operator.

    The warnings come just days after the state finalized regulations to ban gasoline-powered vehicles by 2035, as part of Gov. Gavin Newsomís effort to shift the entire passenger fleet to electric vehicles, ostensibly to help fight climate change. Already, Newsom and state legislators are scrambling to save the stateís last remaining active nuclear power plant. The state has been at risk of electricity shortages for the past several years, thanks to a lack of new power plants and the unreliability of energy from wind and solar power.

    Two years ago, Newsom urged Californians to ďsober upĒ about the limitations of solar and wind power, during another late summer energy shortage that resulted in rolling blackouts across much of the state. The state has not expanded its energy sources since then, though it has improved plans for energy shortages and expanded battery capacity.

    Moving to an all-electric vehicle fleet by 2035 would require the energy grid to expand its capacity by 30%, the Chronicle notes ó a goal that officials say feasible within ten years.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire



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  3. #2
    Meanwhile, on the east coast, we are watching a possible hurricane form up.

    Wonder how an evacuation of millions of coastal residents will work with EVs?
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Meanwhile, on the east coast, we are watching a possible hurricane form up.

    Wonder how an evacuation of millions of coastal residents will work with EVs?
    There really aren't that many EVs here in Florida. I see a few Teslas a day and I live in a wealthy coastal city. Not many people evacuate anymore unless it's a bad one like a 4 or 5. Unless you have an old wooden house, a trailer or are on a barrier island you don't have to leave even in a bad one. There are more tnan enough shelters and hotels on the mainland for people off the barrier islands, it's not like the whole state is going to drive to Georgia. FOr what it's worth all the rest areas on the turnpike and 95 have rows of EV chargers. I'm 5 minutes from the beach and not in an evacuation zone. My house is concrete block and has been here since the 50's with shutters on all the window and doors it's not going anywhere.

  5. #4
    Just turn it all off. you know you want to...devils
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  6. #5
    California: Leading the way when it comes to stupidity.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  7. #6

    https://twitter.com/Julia_Morgan_1/s...54199815122944
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    I was there that day...22 Sept 2005



    This was every single road out of Houston...



    What happens to that 800 volt battery when it is submerged, not in rain water, but in conductive salt water.

    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  9. #8
    I wonder if they will Cut Power before Landfall,, or leave it energized to destroy itself like they did in Ivan.

    Nice Light show..
    Spectacular Stupidity.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post

    What happens to that 800 volt battery when it is submerged, not in rain water, but in conductive salt water.

    It would be just as Totaled the Phuck Out as any Gas car.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It would be just as Totaled the Phuck Out as any Gas car.
    Yep, exactly.

    A/F, it's not the tech that's the problem, everything has bugs and needs to be worked out. The consumer should decide whether they want or need to buy a product or not. The problem is with companies being subsidized and government mandates.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

    An Agorist Primer

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Ain't that the truth

    There are many folks who will [and are] go into debt to get the latest fad thing, just like they took the jab.

    Me personally, I'd wait until competition drove the price way way down, most of the kinks worked out and battery swaps a cheap breeze.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

    An Agorist Primer

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    stepson goes through $100 a week, $400+ a month, 4800+ a year,, $48,000 in ten years.

    In ten years he could afford the replacement,, Battery already Paid for itself.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #14
    I just got 100 miles for $20.. 4 gal.

    Tesla will get 300 miles for $10.

    Aptera will charge itself just sitting in Daylight.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 09-26-2022 at 09:45 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I just got 100 miles for $20.. 4 gal.

    Tesla will get 300 miles for $10.

    Aptera will charge itself just sitting in Daylight.
    What is the KW usage of the Tesla?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    A/F, it's not the tech that's the problem, everything has bugs and needs to be worked out. The consumer should decide whether they want or need to buy a product or not. The problem is with companies being subsidized and government mandates.
    This ^

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There are many folks who will [and are] go into debt to get the latest fad thing, just like they took the jab.

    Me personally, I'd wait until competition drove the price way way down, most of the kinks worked out and battery swaps a cheap breeze.
    The issue here is that they're not allowing the market to operate. Which means that the kinks won't be worked out and battery swaps will not become a thing. Those are efficiencies you only get when you have to respond to market forces. This entire industry is not responding to market forces, but government fatwas.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    What is the KW usage of the Tesla?
    Tesla's have the best efficiencies getting almost 4 miles per kWh. When charging at home at a slow speed, you're not really concerned about the kW usage. In Florida, a web search showed the average price per kWh is about 12 cents. So yeah, it'll cost you a little over 9 bucks to move the vehicle 300 miles. However, if you're using fast chargers, the kW can be extremely high - like 250kW high! Now, you can't get that kind of power flow cheaply. With current load factors (how often the stations are being used) the unsubsidized price of charging would be the equivalent of around $14 per gal of gas. Tesla's fast chargers use a combination of subsidies from government/utilities AND from vehicle purchases and Low Carbon Fuel Credits (LCFC's) to offset their losses on charging revenue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    As with everything with EV's, it takes planning to move your car long distances. Most vehicles will already be charged at home, so these drivers will be able to get a couple hundred miles away before they need to charge again. They won't need to worry about the fast chargers near them - they need to worry about the fast chargers hundreds of miles away.

    I suspect most EVacuees (I think I just coined a new term) will opt to leave their EV in the garage and take their family's gas guzzling SUV for the trip.

    EV's have their use cases. Long trips are not one of them. For day-to-day travel, you can't beat the efficiencies of electric vehicles (if you have a garage to charge them in). But if you need to move the vehicle long distances, it'll cost you in time, money, and planning.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This ^



    The issue here is that they're not allowing the market to operate. Which means that the kinks won't be worked out and battery swaps will not become a thing. Those are efficiencies you only get when you have to respond to market forces. This entire industry is not responding to market forces, but government fatwas.



    Tesla's have the best efficiencies getting almost 4 miles per kWh. When charging at home at a slow speed, you're not really concerned about the kW usage. In Florida, a web search showed the average price per kWh is about 12 cents. So yeah, it'll cost you a little over 9 bucks to move the vehicle 300 miles. However, if you're using fast chargers, the kW can be extremely high - like 250kW high! Now, you can't get that kind of power flow cheaply. With current load factors (how often the stations are being used) the unsubsidized price of charging would be the equivalent of around $14 per gal of gas. Tesla's fast chargers use a combination of subsidies from government/utilities AND from vehicle purchases and Low Carbon Fuel Credits (LCFC's) to offset their losses on charging revenue.



    As with everything with EV's, it takes planning to move your car long distances. Most vehicles will already be charged at home, so these drivers will be able to get a couple hundred miles away before they need to charge again. They won't need to worry about the fast chargers near them - they need to worry about the fast chargers hundreds of miles away.

    I suspect most EVacuees (I think I just coined a new term) will opt to leave their EV in the garage and take their family's gas guzzling SUV for the trip.

    EV's have their use cases. Long trips are not one of them. For day-to-day travel, you can't beat the efficiencies of electric vehicles (if you have a garage to charge them in). But if you need to move the vehicle long distances, it'll cost you in time, money, and planning.
    I have a bad distaste whenever people or entities use their price per KW. If I remember correctly when I was a kid the KW price was what a person paid. These days they have delivery charges and other fees. I presently am locked into a $0.13 per KW price but my net cost per KW after all the fees is more like $0.275 per KW. At my current rate with the cheapest charge 36 miles would cost me 9KWH and at my cost would equate to $2.475 without having to be paying any road fees. There are many vehicles today that can get 36MPG.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    I have a bad distaste whenever people or entities use their price per KW. If I remember correctly when I was a kid the KW price was what a person paid. These days they have delivery charges and other fees. I presently am locked into a $0.13 per KW price but my net cost per KW after all the fees is more like $0.275 per KW. At my current rate with the cheapest charge 36 miles would cost me 9KWH and at my cost would equate to $2.475 without having to be paying any road fees. There are many vehicles today that can get 36MPG.
    So, you're conflating kWh and kW... Two different measures. But I think I get what you're trying to say.

    Yes - electric rates are far more complicated than gasoline prices. (just imagine how funky it gets with time-of-use rates, demand charges, and supplier choice compared to monthly diesel contracts)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So, you're conflating kWh and kW... Two different measures. But I think I get what you're trying to say.

    Yes - electric rates are far more complicated than gasoline prices. (just imagine how funky it gets with time-of-use rates, demand charges, and supplier choice compared to monthly diesel contracts)
    Yes. All I know is I pay $0.13 per KW and net cost is $0.275. Way more that what people say a KW costs. I cannot get a KW to my home for anywhere near that price. Furthermore with Gasoline and Diesel there are taxes for road upkeep included. It won't be long before these EV's need to pay a fee to have them on the road. Why should they be able to operate without any road taxes? If I am not mistaken if a Diesel Truck is caught using off road diesel or heating oil they get a huge fine. Why should EV's be able to use roads with no fees?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yep, exactly.

    A/F, it's not the tech that's the problem, everything has bugs and needs to be worked out. The consumer should decide whether they want or need to buy a product or not. The problem is with companies being subsidized and government mandates.
    I understand that.

    Show me the millions of people that demanded Ford to make an electric F150.

    There's no natural demand for these things...never has been...hasn't been for over 100 years.

    The same technological hurdles that hamstrung Baker Electrics still exist today.

    They didn't work then and won't work now and the only reason any of this is happening is not from organic customer demand, but because of government fatwas.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It would be just as Totaled the Phuck Out as any Gas car.
    LOL - Yes, that it would.

    I'm no more a fan of computerized cars (or anything else) than I am of EVs.

    Without 20 computer modules in that car, you or I could salvage that car and make it road worthy again with little difficulty, assuming the engine wasn't running when it sunk.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Yes. All I know is I pay $0.13 per KW and net cost is $0.275. Way more that what people say a KW costs. I cannot get a KW to my home for anywhere near that price. Furthermore with Gasoline and Diesel there are taxes for road upkeep included. It won't be long before these EV's need to pay a fee to have them on the road. Why should they be able to operate without any road taxes? If I am not mistaken if a Diesel Truck is caught using off road diesel or heating oil they get a huge fine. Why should EV's be able to use roads with no fees?
    So, let me help a little...

    kW measures the rate at which you use power (basically, how fast the juice runs through the lines)
    kWh measures the amount of electric you consume - this is what you get billed on*.
    (*Some jurisdictions also bill on kW for residential, but it's usually for commercial customers who have to pay for their impact to the grid. High kW means you need bigger lines to carry the juice. The public fast charging owners pay for the amount of kWh used + the "peak demand", which is the highest kW throughout the month.)

    Also, different jurisdictions have different rules for generation vs. transmission & delivery. Depending on where you are, you'll pay a price for your electric to be generated at a plant plus to have it delivered over the lines. In other places, it's all inclusive (vertically integrated or consolidated). So if you a "price to compare" of 10 cents, that's probably only the generation portion of the bill.

    As for gas taxes, this is an issue that every state is dealing with. Some are instituting higher registration fees, others are trying a VMT (Vehicle Mileage Tax). Some states are keeping those fees low as an incentive to encourage more EV's. Again, another subsidy. BTW, fuel taxes are also lessened with more efficient gas vehicles. If you get better MPG, you put more miles on the road and pay less tax. I've spoken about this before and I advocate for a fuel-agnostic VMT. Meaning, everyone, regardless of what type of fuel they use, will log their annual mileage X the vehicle weight and pay a tax based on the wear and tear you've put on the road. It's politically touchy, but it best represents how much of the road you use.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    As for gas taxes, this is an issue that every state is dealing with. Some are instituting higher registration fees, others are trying a VMT (Vehicle Mileage Tax). Some states are keeping those fees low as an incentive to encourage more EV's. Again, another subsidy. BTW, fuel taxes are also lessened with more efficient gas vehicles. If you get better MPG, you put more miles on the road and pay less tax. I've spoken about this before and I advocate for a fuel-agnostic VMT. Meaning, everyone, regardless of what type of fuel they use, will log their annual mileage X the vehicle weight and pay a tax based on the wear and tear you've put on the road. It's politically touchy, but it best represents how much of the road you use.
    This yet another reason why I am opposed to EVs and am convinced that the big push for them is based on the desire to implement a tax grid like this.

    Tax by mile will not happen with a less intrusive system of logging yearly miles at registration time.

    It will take the form of a very intrusive "track by mile" system, where every mile you travel will be logged and monitored in real time, either by V2V, road side monitors, onboard WiFi or Bluetooth, as you get charged for "congestion" fees, tolls, moving violations, time of day use and so on.

    Granted, ICE vehicles are subject to these schemes as well, but EVs are much better suited to be incorporated into the borg highway hive.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  27. #24
    A brilliant red barchetta, from a better, vanished, time...

    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Granted, ICE vehicles are subject to these schemes as well, but EVs are much better suited to be incorporated into the borg highway hive.
    More to the point, electrics are the "modern development" that makes such real time spying "necessary".

    Fact is, your odometer could just be checked when you renew your tags. But, no. Not intrusive enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    More to the point, electrics are the "modern development" that makes such real time spying "necessary".

    Fact is, your odometer could just be checked when you renew your tags. But, no. Not intrusive enough.
    Exactly.

    Real time monitoring will be required for all the add on fees: congestion fees, construction zone fees, time of use fees, moving violation fees...the list is endless.

    First will be the fees, then the "no go" zones will be added, slowly at first.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This yet another reason why I am opposed to EVs and am convinced that the big push for them is based on the desire to implement a tax grid like this.

    Tax by mile will not happen with a less intrusive system of logging yearly miles at registration time.

    It will take the form of a very intrusive "track by mile" system, where every mile you travel will be logged and monitored in real time, either by V2V, road side monitors, onboard WiFi or Bluetooth, as you get charged for "congestion" fees, tolls, moving violations, time of day use and so on.

    Granted, ICE vehicles are subject to these schemes as well, but EVs are much better suited to be incorporated into the borg highway hive.
    As you mention, this isn't an "EV" problem, this is State Control problem. And yes, I see that as a possibility as well. Some of the reasons they'll use to justify it are some roads more expensive to maintain than others, vehicles cross state lines so they'll want to make sure each state is getting their proper share, they'll want peak pricing to control traffic, etc. But like you said, they'll end up doing this anyway. The saving grace here is that it'd take massive amounts of data to get that granular, so it'll be some time before it's feasible.

    But the alternative in my mind is even worse... That they'll start to tax your electric consumption differently based on what appliances you're using. We've already talked about the smart meter concerns. We really need to get them away from taxing fuel use - regardless of the type - and towards more accurate road user fees.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Why should EV's be able to use roads with no fees?
    Why should Gas customers pay for Roads that are already Paid for?

    are you in favor of Tax now?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post

    Granted, ICE vehicles are subject to these schemes as well, but EVs are much better suited to be incorporated into the borg highway hive.
    Now,,That is my concern as well.. and why I like Home Builds..
    I like Aptera's,, "Right To Repair"..and though they offer the AI package,,it is an Option.

    The agenda is to remove the Human Error from crash data.. and from responsibility.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I understand that.

    Show me the millions of people that demanded Ford to make an electric F150.

    There's no natural demand for these things...never has been...hasn't been for over 100 years.

    The same technological hurdles that hamstrung Baker Electrics still exist today.

    They didn't work then and won't work now and the only reason any of this is happening is not from organic customer demand, but because of government fatwas.

    We're in agreement

    But if you want to "chip in", I'm working on my own IonDrive/NitroMethane/JetPropulsion/WaterPowered craft ;-)

    Sorry bro, just had to throw that in lol
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

    An Agorist Primer

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