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Thread: I got a speeding ticket.

  1. #1

    I got a speeding ticket.

    I had to go to NJ to see the situation with 88 year old mom and stepfather who is in late stage-4 spinal cancer. Cluster$#@! stress amplifier that I will not go into, suffice to say that as usual, my parents leave me and my good wife with gratuitous poo on my plate that could so easily have been avoided. All relating to a story too long and boring to mention any further.

    On my way back home, a WV state cop yanks me for 77 in a 70. He was sarcastic and issued the summons. I'm considering taking it to court, if for no other reason to be heard... have to think on that and any feedback would be appreciated. I have less than zero expectation of anything even remotely resembling fair treatment.

    The hypocrisy of these scum - and I mean ALL "government" filth - is just too much. Firstly, I've never seen a WV cop bother anyone going under 80 on the interstate. They sit in their little median spaces as traffic flies by and do nothing. Then out of nowhere this rent-seeking scumbag breaks the trend and gives me snark on top of it. And they wonder why nobody respects them. FTP.

    I have several points to make in having my say. So far as I know, and I will have to seek this information, cops are not allowed to break speed limits any more than are the rest of us, at least in non-emergency situations. If the purpose of the statutes is safety, then why write a citation if there is no demonstrably manifest danger?

    If 70 mph is "safe", but 77 is not, that directly and unavoidable implies a line. Where is it? How is it determined? How do we know we can trust that determination when we cannot even trust a cop to consistently apply the statutes?

    I have a list of questions for a cross examination of the cop, again asked with no expectation of actual justice, but to expose these vermin for what they are.


    1. Are you a sworn law officer?
    2. What is the oath you swear?
    3. Do you blindly apply the law, or do you employ discretion
    4. If discretion, on what basis do you so apply
    5. Do your duties require an understanding of the relevant statutes
    6. What is the overarching purpose of traffic statutes?
    7. Why did you issue the summons?
    8. Under non-emergency conditions, are you allowed to speed? How fast were you going? Do you ever speed?
    9. Did my speed cause a clear and present danger to become manifest? If so, then articulate it in every detail.
    10. if you cannot articulate a definite and immediate danger to life, limb, and other property, how do you justify issuing the citation in the context of the admitted purpose of the statutes as being that of safety?
    11. if an immediate danger is claimed, I will nail him down to the least details and show how he lies or is at least showing incompetence of assessment


    My purpose is not to escape the fine, but to force them to admit their perfidy, errors, and rank hypocrisy.

    I would record the entire proceeding sub-rosa and post it to the network.

    I'm über-stressed at the moment and am in no humor for these bastards and their felonious, tyrannical antics.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  3. #2
    The only reason I can think of to bite your tongue is that there's a possibility you'll be traveling through his/their territory under similar duress in the near future.

  4. #3
    There is such discrimination when it comes to traffic citations. My wife has a group of girlfriends she hangs out with and just the other day one was saying how she was pulled over and got a warning. I know my wife has been stopped and given warnings. I know my wife drives faster than I do. I know if I get pulled over, I wouldn't get a warning.

    Sometimes insurance rates increase for years from a ticket.

    I know you said the goal is not to avoid the fine but to make a point. My guess is your point will fall on deaf ears and possibly backfire on you. Then you have to ask yourself one question. Is it worth it?

    I know from personal experience that a properly worded letter can get a ticket thrown out. You could say something like, To whom it may concern.... I am a 70 year old man that never speeds. I was not speeding when I got pulled over. This might be a calibration issue with the police officers radar and or my speedometer. A short time ago I had four new tires installed because I know the importance of having good tires especially with winter approaching. I am not a physicist but I do know I had my speed control set at 70mph and that is the speed I was going according to my speedometer when I got pulled over. Because of this incident I intend to check my speedometer for its accuracy. Are radar devices calibrated? Was the one used on my vehicle recently calibrated to meet proper specifications? Is there an allowable +or - error factor on a newly calibrated radar device? Anyway, I pride myself with my ticket free driving and ask you to please drop the citation. Sincerely....

  5. #4
    Maybe try one of those cheap legal services that specialize in speeding tickets. Seems like a 77 in 70 could easily be thrown out on something like calibration error, assuming you didn't, ahem, admit anything to the cop.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I'm considering taking it to court, if for no other reason to be heard
    I can appreciate that. If you go through with it, I look forward to hearing the results (not optimistic about it though), and either way you have my respect.

    I just recently had to make the same decision. I was given a parking ticket for backing my car into the parking space, rather than driving into it front first. I was visiting a place I had never been before and had never heard of any place having such a ridiculous law. It's actually safer to back in as a rule. Supposedly there were signs posted with lists of parking rules that included that in the list. I don't doubt that those signs were there. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect every visitor to notice such a ludicrous rule and actually fine them for being more safe without a warning.

    I wanted to fight it. But in the end, I figured it just wasn't going to be worth the trouble. So I paid the ticket.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  7. #6
    The judge probably won't let you ask that many questions. And will just likely rule you guilty after the 2nd or 3rd question. They don't like people wasting their time. Also, it's WV, so the outcome is likely predetermined anyway unless you find an error in the process which you can show that will get it thrown out.

    One of those law firms that handles tickets will cost pretty much the same as the ticket and might be able to get it thrown out. Hint: the lawyers and the judges all know each other and likely golf together on the weekends.

    Watch some of the scenes in the TV show Better Call Saul to understand how the defense will negotiate with the prosecutors on case outcomes.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #7
    In my opinion, the best that you can do to prove a point is to hire a lawyer from that jurisdiction and hire him to fight/negotiate the ticket.

    Most likely, the lawyer will not fight the ticket, but negotiate it into something else. Around here, courts will readily turn speeding tickets into "improper safety equipment" violations.

    No one in the kangaroo courts care about hearing about their hypocrisy and corruption. Telling them will just enrage and humor them.

    Getting them to bust the ticket down to something clearly not relevant lets their hypocrisy speak for itself.

  9. #8
    On my way back home, a WV state cop yanks me for 77 in a 70. He was sarcastic and issued the summons. I'm considering taking it to court, if for no other reason to be heard... have to think on that and any feedback would be appreciated. I have less than zero expectation of anything even remotely resembling fair treatment.

    The hypocrisy of these scum - and I mean ALL "government" filth - is just too much. Firstly, I've never seen a WV cop bother anyone going under 80 on the interstate. They sit in their little median spaces as traffic flies by and do nothing. Then out of nowhere this rent-seeking scumbag breaks the trend and gives me snark on top of it. And they wonder why nobody respects them. FTP.
    If you had an out of state license plate, you are a prime target for “rent-seeking”.

    They expect most people to just pay the money by mail out of convenience. In my experience, it takes two trips to the court to fight a ticket. One trip to plead not guilty, another trip to actually fight the ticket in front of the judge with the officer there.

    Also in my experience, pleading not guilty and fighting it by yourself has a low probability of success. They run people through as fast as possible, and guilty is almost always the outcome.

    I have had success at the first hearing. I noticed that they sometimes just dismiss the case. I have plead “no contest with explanation”, gave my explanation, and the case was dropped. No actual “trial” required. If someone is concerned about insurance, that first meeting is an opportunity to plead guilty or no contest, and request traffic school.

    I tend to agree with those who think that they won’t take kindly to trying to make a point or make them look foolish.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    If you had an out of state license plate, you are a prime target for “rent-seeking”.

    They expect most people to just pay the money by mail out of convenience. In my experience, it takes two trips to the court to fight a ticket. One trip to plead not guilty, another trip to actually fight the ticket in front of the judge with the officer there.

    Also in my experience, pleading not guilty and fighting it by yourself has a low probability of success. They run people through as fast as possible, and guilty is almost always the outcome.

    I have had success at the first hearing. I noticed that they sometimes just dismiss the case. I have plead “no contest with explanation”, gave my explanation, and the case was dropped. No actual “trial” required. If someone is concerned about insurance, that first meeting is an opportunity to plead guilty or no contest, and request traffic school.

    I tend to agree with those who think that they won’t take kindly to trying to make a point or make them look foolish.
    I have had success by just mailing a letter. Received a reply that the ticket was thrown out.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    I have had success by just mailing a letter. Received a reply that the ticket was thrown out.
    Yep. Probably the easiest option.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yep. Probably the easiest option.
    An older guy with a clean driving record would probably get ticket thrown out for 77 in 70 especially if they say they weren't speeding and just got new tires....

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    In my experience, it takes two trips to the court to fight a ticket. One trip to plead not guilty, another trip to actually fight the ticket in front of the judge with the officer there.
    Many years ago, a friend of my was given a ticket for open container. He showed up for the court date to plead not guilty, so the persecutor and judge conspired to make him come back to court two more times without intention of arguing the case against him. On the fourth court date, the persecutor pulled him aside into the hallway and asked him what he wanted. He said that he wanted the charges dropped. The chik persecutor conferred with the cop, who was not at the previous court dates, and he whined and lied about the facts and the persecutor finally dropped it. Cop was a lying dick.

    Long story short: it was a college town and they wrote tickets like crazy and nobody fought them. The judge and persecutor would harass non guilty pleas with endless trips to court until people just gave up.

    With that said, hiring a local attorney MIGHT allow you to get out of a court appearance. I believe that he can appear for you in some cases. It is also very possible that he can cut a deal before the court date.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I can appreciate that. If you go through with it, I look forward to hearing the results (not optimistic about it though), and either way you have my respect.

    I just recently had to make the same decision. I was given a parking ticket for backing my car into the parking space, rather than driving into it front first. I was visiting a place I had never been before and had never heard of any place having such a ridiculous law. It's actually safer to back in as a rule. Supposedly there were signs posted with lists of parking rules that included that in the list. I don't doubt that those signs were there. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect every visitor to notice such a ludicrous rule and actually fine them for being more safe without a warning.

    I wanted to fight it. But in the end, I figured it just wasn't going to be worth the trouble. So I paid the ticket.


    I don't know law, but if that was a private parking lot then you were breaking company policy, not a law.
    FJB

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I don't know law, but if that was a private parking lot then you were breaking company policy, not a law.
    It was public.

    This was a locality that had that law. I looked it up afterwards and learned that it's just a weird law that locality has.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It was public.

    This was a locality that had that law. I looked it up afterwards and learned that it's just a weird law that locality has.
    Taxpayers pay to have private companies parking lot customers ticketed... kickback!
    FJB

  18. #16



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    @osan
    What is the outcome?
    Nothing yet - don't even have a court date. I will let you all know when I do.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Nothing yet - don't even have a court date. I will let you all know when I do.
    Be very careful to make sure that they haven't placed you on the docket without you knowing it.

    Keep bugging the court clerks every few days if you have to.

    The court would much rather f you by getting you for failure to appear than have you fight the ticket.

    They know that you will give up on fighting the ticket in exchange for keeping out of jail.

    Remember, they WANT you to have a criminal record and they need to keep customers in jail and the system.
    Last edited by sparebulb; 09-05-2022 at 08:04 AM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Be very careful to make sure that they haven't placed you on the docket without you knowing it.

    Keep bugging the court clerks every few days if you have to.

    The court would much rather f you by getting you for failure to appear than have you fight the ticket.

    They know that you will give up on fighting the ticket in exchange for keeping out of jail.

    Remember, they WANT you to have a criminal record and they need to keep customers in jail and the system.

    Thanks for the words. I don't trust those filth to the end of my own nose.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  23. #20
    I represented myself pro se for a traffic ticket. As I was questioning the cop, the judge was reading something. The procecutor would object to something and the judge would look up and ask the procecutor what I asked, then the judge would uphold the objection and go back to reading. He completely ignored me. I also thought the cop would be more civil under questioning but he was more of a jackass on the stand then when he pulled me over.

    Anyway, the trail went was nothing compared to what all the videos show. After realizing this, I sighed and rested my case. The judge asked me if I had anything else to add, I gave a smile and joked about, "You guys beat me," I asked for mercy and said something to the effect of, "trust me, you'll never see me in here again."

    It was off the cuff humor but I got a laugh out of the judge, the procecutor and even the cop. The judge found me guilty and fined me $25 (this was back in 2000) he waved the court fees.

    I talked to some cops in the back afterwards. They told me I didn't do too bad and I should be a lawyer, but if I can help it, I am never stepping foot in a court house again. I prefer dealing with honest people.
    ...

  24. #21

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    @osan, how did this turn out?
    Goipng Wed. I'm sure they will find me "guilty", but I will be heard. Screw all tyrants, petty and grand.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    The only reason I can think of to bite your tongue is that there's a possibility you'll be traveling through his/their territory under similar duress in the near future.

    Well, funny you mention that.

    My mother is a narcissist. I could go into a long, horrible, and ultimately very boring story of my childhood, but I'm not so cruel as to put any of you good folks through such gratuitous torment.

    For a month all she did was bitch and moan about EVERYTHING. About 2 weeks in, Bibi had had it. Were I to detail everything my good wife has done for mom and John, you might be tempted to call me a liar, but that is really how fine a human being Bibi is. So the fact that my wife of near-infinite patience and forbearance blew a fuse at mom is saying something you just would not be able to quite fully appreciate.

    Well, this Friday past mom did it again, but this time the fur really flew. So we packed her up with as much as we could fit into her Civic and I drove her back to the grand $#@! hole called "New Jersey". I unloaded her car and Pinky, Bibi's eldest daughter and her mother's child by all outward qualities, drove me to EWR. I spent the night at the Hilton at ORD and got home last night.

    Bottom line: the next time I go to NJ, it will be for mom's funeral. I've endured her abuses for the last time. Don't care what she does with her estate. Give it away, burn it, send it to the cousins in Euroland. Makes no matter to me for I will not taint myself with her remnants. She chose, said she wanted nothing to do with our family, and we take her on her word. God riddance, sad as it might be in the broadest consideration, but that is how it's been all my life and I'm done, stick a fork in me.

    I don't expect to be up in Braxton county any time again soon, save for Wed. when I go to court. I will state my case, try to record if I can get away with it, and they can all $#@! off if they are going to show me dishonor, which I suspect shall be the case.

    I will let you all know how it goes.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Well, funny you mention that.

    My mother is a narcissist. I could go into a long, horrible, and ultimately very boring story of my childhood, but I'm not so cruel as to put any of you good folks through such gratuitous torment.

    For a month all she did was bitch and moan about EVERYTHING. About 2 weeks in, Bibi had had it. Were I to detail everything my good wife has done for mom and John, you might be tempted to call me a liar, but that is really how fine a human being Bibi is. So the fact that my wife of near-infinite patience and forbearance blew a fuse at mom is saying something you just would not be able to quite fully appreciate.

    Well, this Friday past mom did it again, but this time the fur really flew. So we packed her up with as much as we could fit into her Civic and I drove her back to the grand $#@! hole called "New Jersey". I unloaded her car and Pinky, Bibi's eldest daughter and her mother's child by all outward qualities, drove me to EWR. I spent the night at the Hilton at ORD and got home last night.

    Bottom line: the next time I go to NJ, it will be for mom's funeral. I've endured her abuses for the last time. Don't care what she does with her estate. Give it away, burn it, send it to the cousins in Euroland. Makes no matter to me for I will not taint myself with her remnants. She chose, said she wanted nothing to do with our family, and we take her on her word. God riddance, sad as it might be in the broadest consideration, but that is how it's been all my life and I'm done, stick a fork in me.

    I don't expect to be up in Braxton county any time again soon, save for Wed. when I go to court. I will state my case, try to record if I can get away with it, and they can all $#@! off if they are going to show me dishonor, which I suspect shall be the case.

    I will let you all know how it goes.
    Well then............Lay into them with both barrels.
    You're suitably eloquent to make your point without running afoul of courtroom decorum.



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  29. #25
    Good luck.

    You might consider freezing the other side by asking for a continuance, especially if you see that the officer has showed up for court. If you don't see the officer hanging around, you might luck out and he didn't show. If he isn't there and the persecutor asks for a continuance, strongly disagree. Do not make your objections primarily on your inconvenience of having to travel/expense, etc, because that is what they want to inflict upon you. Object on grounds of speedy trial, responsibility of the prosecutor to do his job, and demand to know if the officer is here NOW for trial and that you should not suffer for their irresponsibility and disrespect to the court. Do not be afraid to ask the judge for a dismissal citing your respect for the court and their taking the court for granted in not being prepared.

    Be sure to check in the hallway just before court starts to see if the kop is hanging out there. Good sign if he is no where to be found.
    Last edited by sparebulb; 11-14-2022 at 08:34 AM.

  30. #26
    60 yrs old,,and got my first and only (so far).

    nice little speed trap,,and I was slightly. Paid the damn fine.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Well then............Lay into them with both barrels.
    You're suitably eloquent to make your point without running afoul of courtroom decorum.
    That is my intention. I will at least attempt to get the trooper to run himself face-first into a contradiction. If that doesn't get the judge's attention, then of course I will have demonstrated a prima facie case of corruption.

    Either way, I win even if I lose, and I fully expect to lose.

    Addressing another point: if perchance the cop doesn't show, I will immediately forestall the prosecutor by moving for dismissal. I've done it before with success.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  32. #28
    I have emerged victorious. Dismissed on all charges.

    Moral: always fight.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I have emerged victorious. Dismissed on all charges.

    Moral: always fight.
    Congrats!

    How did it play out?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Congrats!

    How did it play out?
    I was civil and I made my points clearly and they dismissed all charges.

    Sutton is a tiny town where everyone knows everyone. They had no sticks in their backsides and were amenable to the points I made, which of course were eminently well reasoned. Unlike large municipalities where you have ladder climbers and empire builders seeking to notch their belts as much as possible, the smaller towns in places not polluted with the taint of the regressive world view tend to be less $#@!-ish.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

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