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Thread: FBI 'raided' Mar-a-Lago

  1. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Oh? So every department with classified materials sent someone to help him pack?

    They knew what was carted out was declassified, but they knew not what was carried out. Therefore, they didn't know any of the things I suggested they just might need to know. Einstein.

    You're not even trying to think this through. You're just grasping at excuses for your golden calf.
    No, I'm following the Constitution and allowing the duly elected representative of the people to decide. You are trying to insinuate that un-elected bureaucrats should have more power than an elected official, which is a deep state, leftist talking point.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  3. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, I'm following the Constitution and allowing the duly elected representative of the people to decide. You are trying to insinuate that un-elected bureaucrats should have more power than an elected official, which is a deep state, leftist talking point.
    No, dannno, I'm not. It's a ridiculous straw man.

    I'm not questioning whether the president can declassify material, nor whether he (or she) should be able to. I'm merely asking a tree-falls-in-the-woods question. If he declassifies something and doesn't tell anyone, is it declassified?

    Do you believe in the rule of law or don't you? I hope you don't go around self-identifying as a libertarian, because you love power much too much. Either everyone in government goes on treating it as secret, which is yet another terrible waste of taxpayer money, or they try to guess what he declassified and let him choose who gets prosecuted or not. Why? Because he's the only person in the world who knows what is, and what is not.

    And what about historic research? Yes, you may research this history, and keep the citizenry informed. Only you can't, because no one knows that, and won't let you see it.

    There is no other point I can see to secretly making something not secret but to selectively entrap people. None. So, why are you fervently defending Trump's right to engage in entrapment?

    Will what you say get him off scot-free in the end? Probably. Does he deserve what he's getting in the meantime? Damned right he does. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    You keep taking contradictory positions in your zeal to defend this clown. He does something you don't like and can't defend? This isn't a one-man government. There are other people who must be considered, purely as a practical matter. He needs to be excused for acting unilaterally when that's clearly inappropriate (again, as a practical matter, because people shouldn't be put in that unjust position)? Suddenly this is a one-man government.

    I can't believe you have been here fifteen years and still think we would let you get away with that. Pick a side and stick to it.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-18-2022 at 12:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.



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  5. #393
    It's unclear whether the President can unilaterally declassify material dealing with nuclear weapons:

    For Restricted Data, the power of the president to declassify is even less clear. The updated version of the Atomic Energy Act that is currently on the books has detailed descriptions of how to remove information from the Restricted Data category. That process is initiated by the Department of Energy (as successor to the Atomic Energy Commission), not the president. The only explicit role the president has in this process is that if the Department of Energy and Department of Defense disagree on whether something should be declassified, the president acts as the tie-breaker. The president is given other explicit powers regarding Restricted Data, like the ability to direct the Department of Defense to share it with allied nations under certain circumstances (like planning for mutual defense, such as with NATO), but not declassification. The fact that the law does not explicitly give presidents the power to blanket declassify things, but does give them a role in declassification and other matters regarding Restricted Data, suggests that Congress’s intent was not to allow the president to declassify Restricted Data at will.

    Unlike National Defense Information, the procedures for identifying and declassifying Restricted Data are defined in statute, not in executive order. Whatever assumptions one might make about whether presidents need to follow their own executive orders (or the executive orders of previous presidents) or not thus get thrown out the window here as well. That doesn’t totally resolve the constitutional situation: maybe you could try to argue that Congress doesn’t have the power to punish a president for releasing Restricted Data, because that might interfere with his operations as commander-in-chief. Or, one could argue whether the Restricted Data clause is inherently unconstitutional, which as we’ve seen is not a new argument. Either way, it is a different issue at heart with Restricted Data than it is with National Defense Information.

    Of course, there may not be any Restricted Data in the documents from Mar-a-Lago. The category of “documents related to nuclear weapons” is vast, and not all such things would necessarily contain Restricted Data. For example, information about the North Korean, Iranian, or Israeli nuclear programs might be classified because of what they reveal about American intelligence sources or foreign intentions, not because they contain “nuclear secrets,” per se. And, of course, there may be no nuclear secrets of any sort in the seized documents at all: the tip might be a false one.

    One interesting consequence, though, of Trump’s current defense is that if he did truly declassify these documents, then they ought to be obtainable, at least in part, under the Freedom of Information Act. Are Trump, his lawyers, and his defenders suggesting that these documents should be publishable? That documents that the military, justice, and intelligence communities appear to think are important enough to keep controlled should just be released? (There are potential work-arounds here, like applying controlled-but-unclassified categorizations to them, but that’s another can of worms.)

    It does lead to the complicated question of “graymail” though: if Trump were to be prosecuted for these documents, and did claim that he had declassified them, and was successful in this claim, would this not mean the documents were truly declassified and thus could be compelled to release? Depending on the sensitivity of the documents, would that be enough to convince the government to avoid prosecution by itself? Without knowing more about the contents of the documents, this is all very idle speculation, but they do raise a lot of genuinely thorny and genuinely novel legal problems.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trum...s-unclassified

    The term "Restricted Data" refers to all data concerning the manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons, the production of fissionable material, or the use of fissionable material in the production of power. The referenced article discusses certain issues with the scope of this definition.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  6. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    It's unclear whether the President can unilaterally declassify material dealing with nuclear weapons:


    https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trum...s-unclassified

    The term "Restricted Data" refers to all data concerning the manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons, the production of fissionable material, or the use of fissionable material in the production of power. The referenced article discusses certain issues with the scope of this definition.
    These apologists don't seem to care about Congress. They don't even adhere to Nixon's, "If the president does it, then it's not illegal.". They figure that does apply, but only to Republican presidents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  7. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    These apologists don't seem to care about Congress. They don't even adhere to Nixon's, "If the president does it, then it's not illegal.". They figure that does apply, but only to Republican presidents.
    Has anyone's home ever been raided over possession of classified material? President or otherwise.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  8. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post


    Have to give the ringmasters credit, America is talking about this rather than "our side" Ukraine, shelling Nuclear Power Plant.

    HOCUS POCUS BITCHES
    Yep- just more Kabuki Theatre to keep your eye off what's really going on.
    There is no spoon.

  9. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm not questioning whether the president can declassify material, nor whether he (or she) should be able to. I'm merely asking a tree-falls-in-the-woods question. If he declassifies something and doesn't tell anyone, is it declassified?
    Trump didn't do that, but yes, he could. He said anything he took to his house was de-facto declassified. So he told people. But he didn't even have to do that. He went above an beyond what was required.

    Patel told Fox News' "Sunday Morning Futures" that, as president, Trump had the power to "literally stand over a set of documents and say, 'These are now declassified,'" as can be seen in a clip shared by Mediaite.

    "This is a key fact that most Americans are missing: President Trump, as a sitting president, is a unilateral authority for declassification," Patel said.

    In other words, if anybody has any question as to whether something was declassified or not, one simply only needs to ask Trump himself.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  10. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  11. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    In other words, if anybody has any question as to whether something was declassified or not, one simply only needs to ask Trump himself.
    Trump is no longer president, so he no longer has the authority to declassify anything. So he would have to claim that he declassified them when he was president. But he could just lie about that, unless declassifying things involves more than just some former president claiming that he declassified things back when he was president without telling anyone.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  12. #400
    Yeah, good luck.

    Ever see Inherit the Wind?

    Matthew Harrison Brady:
    I do not think about things I do not think about.

    Henry Drummond:
    Do you ever think about things that you do think about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.



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  14. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Trump is no longer president, so he no longer has the authority to declassify anything. So he would have to claim that he declassified them when he was president. But he could just lie about that, unless declassifying things involves more than just some former president claiming that he declassified things back when he was president without telling anyone.
    He declassified them while he was President. The President doesn't have to tell anybody. For example, if they are negotiating with a foreign leader, they may have to discuss classified information. For that purpose, the information is temporarily declassified so that he can discuss it with the foreign leader. Then it is reclassified for all intents and purposes. That all happens in the President's noggin, and nobody else needs to know. That is in the Constitution.

    I'm not really sure I've heard a strong argument for having information in the government classified in the first place. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I also like the idea that the government be fully transparent.

    So you may be arguing with the wrong person.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-18-2022 at 03:27 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He declassified them while he was President. The President doesn't have to tell anybody. For example, if they are negotiating with a foreign leader, they may have to discuss classified information. For that purpose, the information is temporarily declassified so that he can discuss it with the foreign leader. Then it is reclassified for all intents and purposes. That all happens in the President's noggin, and nobody else needs to know. That is in the Constitution.

    I'm not really sure I've heard a strong argument for having information in the government classified in the first place. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I also like the idea that the government be fully transparent.

    So you may be arguing with the wrong person.
    There is a video in this thread that has Robert Barnes the attorney in it and he states that Trump can declassify documents.

  16. #403
    Last edited by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged; 08-18-2022 at 03:47 PM.

  17. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    There is a video in this thread that has Robert Barnes the attorney in it and he states that Trump can declassify documents.
    Kash Patel said the same thing I said - what I like to call the Michael Scott "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!!" theory on the President declassifying documents. He can literally just stand over a bunch of documents and declassify them, without doing anything else. He doesn't have to tell anybody, he doesn't have to re-label anything.

    These people attacking Trump are trying to promote the idea that un-elected bureaucrats have more power over classification than the duly elected President.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He declassified them while he was President. The President doesn't have to tell anybody.
    Then how are people supposed to know whether or not any given document is classified?

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    For example, if they are negotiating with a foreign leader, they may have to discuss classified information. For that purpose, the information is temporarily declassified so that he can discuss it with the foreign leader. Then it is reclassified for all intents and purposes. That all happens in the President's noggin, and nobody else needs to know. That is in the Constitution.
    But that's not what you're saying happened here is it?

    And if that is what happened, and these documents, as you just said, got re-classified, then that would mean that they were still classified after Trump left office, when he kept them in his home and was no longer president.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I'm not really sure I've heard a strong argument for having information in the government classified in the first place. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I also like the idea that the government be fully transparent.
    But that's not what you've been saying this whole time.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  19. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    If he declassifies something and doesn't tell anyone, is it declassified?
    Yes, absolutely.

    Please don't take this response to be an agreement of your premise. I think it's very likely some / many / all of the documents seized were declassified either in writing or otherwise witnessed.

    Anyway, the issue of classification is just a red-herring and a way to justify the usage of a general warrant.

    If it were truly about classified documents, why seize so many documents with no classification markings? This is the deep state at work.

  20. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    And if that is what happened, and these documents, as you just said, got re-classified, then that would mean that they were still classified after Trump left office, when he kept them in his home and was no longer president.
    The Constitution doesn't take very kindly to ex post facto "crimes"... would love to see them run with kind of argument. Would expose them even more.

  21. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    The Constitution doesn't take very kindly to ex post facto "crimes"... would love to see them run with kind of argument. Would expose them even more.
    This wouldn't be an ex post facto crime.

    But which part of the Constitution are you referring to?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  23. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    This wouldn't be an ex post facto crime.
    So let me get this straight.

    Taking documents that are not classified and already in the possession of someone, then classifying them and sending the police to arrest anyone who is already in possession of them, is not creating a crime out of a legal action previously committed?

    Weird...

    Actions like these were deep grievances of our founding fathers. The United States has a rich history of rejecting such nonsense.

  24. #410
    President Trump declassified a number of documents related to the Deep State’s attempted coup of his administration only days before he left office. More than a foot-high pile of documents were declassified by President Trump at this time. The Deep State FBI reportedly held on to these documents and would not release them up to that time. This was reported by Lou Dobbs on FOX Business on January 14, 2021. (Note that The Gateway Pundit was noted in this segment as well for its reporting on the Jan 6 Capitol protests where we already knew that there were bad actors involved.)
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/08/exclusive-trump-rico-case-clinton-appointed-judge-allowed-government-insert-trump-rico-case-place-comey-mccabe-strzok-page-clinesmith/

  25. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Then how are people supposed to know whether or not any given document is classified?
    Check the classification. Then if you are still unsure, ask the President.


    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    But that's not what you're saying happened here is it?
    No, I'm using it as an example of why the President has complete discretion over classification, period, according to the Constitution, and there is no other entity that has more power in this particular arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    But that's not what you've been saying this whole time.
    My point is I'm arguing against people who seem believe that the government and classified documents are some sacred institution. I'm just letting you know I don't feel that way, but I'm still right about the law, and you aren't.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #412
    What it comes down to is, Trump and some of his people, including Kash Patel (Patel has joined the board of directors for the former president’s media company, Trump Media & Technology Group), were going to publish info on declassified documents so the public could easily see what was really going on during all of those past "investigations" etc... then the FBI stepped in and made sure that didn't happen.


    https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/t...ied-documents/
    If the stampman tells you to kiss his ass, shall he get away with it and live? Don't let your courage cool, or a few bullies scare you. We've nothing to fear but slavery. Love your liberty, and fight for it like men who know its value. Once lost it will never, never be regained.
    -Hugh Ledlie, 1774.

  27. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Check the classification. Then if you are still unsure, ask the President.
    The current president, right? Not a former one.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  28. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    What it comes down to is, Trump and some of his people, including Kash Patel (Patel has joined the board of directors for the former president’s media company, Trump Media & Technology Group), were going to publish info on declassified documents so the public could easily see what was really going on during all of those past "investigations" etc... then the FBI stepped in and made sure that didn't happen.


    https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/t...ied-documents/
    That would certainly play well in Peoria. One wonders why Chessmaster Trump didn't come right out and say it, if it were true.

    One would also wonder why we haven't seen one page of it in nineteen months. If you're going to do something like that, procrastination just gives your enemies time to do what was allegedly done--devise a strategy to stop you, and carry it out. I can't imagine a reason to delay, unless one were less interested in turning up the heat and boiling off the swamp, and more interested in convincing someone to pay you not to do it.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-18-2022 at 05:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  29. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Taking documents that are not classified and already in the possession of someone, then classifying them and sending the police to arrest anyone who is already in possession of them, is not creating a crime out of a legal action previously committed?
    Huh?

    Are you trying to pretend that you're saying the same thing dannno said in the post I was replying to?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  30. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    My point is I'm arguing against people who seem believe that the government and classified documents are some sacred institution. I'm just letting you know I don't feel that way, but I'm still right about the law, and you aren't.
    Classification is an abusive tool used to protect those in power and to weaponize information against the public.

    It's really weird seeing libertarians argue that unelected bureaucrats can usurp the power of the people by denying the executive branch's sole authority over this issue. Despite any problems folks here have with the Orange Man, he spent 4 years declassifying and trying to get that declassified material released to the public - information that has been weaponized against them.

    Unfortunately he failed in doing so, and now the deep state intends on completing the goal of making an example out of the man. The people will be made to understand that they do not have permission to form a government challenging the status quo.



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  32. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Are you trying to pretend that you're saying the same thing dannno said in the post I was replying to?
    Huh?

    Are you going to answer the question?

  33. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Huh?

    Are you going to answer the question?
    I didn't intend to, since it had nothing to do with anything we were talking about.

    But to answer it, yes of course the story you made up would be creating a crime out of a legal action previously committed.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  34. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    denying the executive branch's sole authority over this issue.
    Can you quote any libertarians denying that?

    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Despite any problems folks here have with the Orange Man, he spent 4 years declassifying and trying to get that declassified material released to the public
    Riiiiiiiiighht.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  35. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    It's really weird seeing libertarians argue that unelected bureaucrats can usurp the power of the people by denying the executive branch's sole authority over this issue.
    I dare you to come up with a single quote from this thread that could make that charge stick, that could breathe life into that strawman. There is a process, and it's necessary. You and certain others want everyone to believe Trump can change engine oil without taking out the drain plug, can make an omelet without bothering to break an egg.

    I hope you'll pardon me for being dubious that the right to cook an omelet means one can wave their hands over three eggs, and get one without so much as touching a whisk.

    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Despite any problems folks here have with the Orange Man, he spent 4 years declassifying and trying to get that declassified material released to the public - information that has been weaponized against them.

    Unfortunately he failed in doing so...
    Why? What kept him?

    I still say the gaping hole in this theory is, there's no possible reason why not one single page came out, not one hint was given that they might come out, except that the person holding all this lovely stuff was, like a blackmailer, still taking bids for his silence.

    I am so sick of hearing all about how our beloved high-energy go-getter Alpha woulda and was a gonna, but got stopped. He could have done it in a seventeen part monthly serial by now.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-18-2022 at 06:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Dems cheat.
    Trump stopped them cheating.

    A clear case of Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

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