Trump Wants Revenge — That’s Why He’s the Man for 2024

[Ender]

Ron's treatment by the media, compared to say, a Donald Trump, was a political decoder ring for many of us and can never be unseen. There is no such thing as bad publicity in Hollywood nor in Hollywood East, aka DC.

Yep.

I was saying that way back in 2015 when it was obvious that Trump was getting all the PR from MSM while Rand was thrown under the bus.

Got called all kinds of names for pointing out that there is no "bad publicity".

[PAF]

But if you intend on holding your grudge forever, you're going to miss the forest for the trees.

EDIT: Actually it's not so much that you hold a grudge. I too detest Boehner and would like to see many more neocons held to account for how they treated Ron Paul. It's just that you're a little much too broad-sweeping with it.

I take it you weren't present during all of the corruption.

Grudge, perhaps, but more importantly, I don't forget, and I learn from the past. Further, Committees today are no different than they were in 2012, when they chanted Romney USA USA, and Trump MAGA today. In fact, it's worse, because nowadays any mention of budgets and deficits is deer in headlights, TSA is accepted and the norm, and the call for more police to enforce unjust laws is more prevalent among so-called "conservatives" than I can ever remember.

Forest for the trees?

[nobody's_hero]

I take it you weren't present during all of the corruption.

Grudge, perhaps, but more importantly, I don't forget, and I learn from the past. Further, Committees today are no different than they were in 2012, when they chanted Romney USA USA, and Trump MAGA today. In fact, it's worse, because nowadays any mention of budgets and deficits is deer in headlights, TSA is accepted and the norm, and the call for more police to enforce unjust laws is more prevalent among so-called "conservatives" than I can ever remember.

Forest for the trees?

So then, who forced Boehner out? It wasn't a bunch of agorists who have given up on the system, I can tell you that. I'll work with anyone to get these establishment jokers out because until they're gone, NO ONE, especially no one liberty-oriented, is going to be able to take their place.

[PAF]

So then, who forced Boehner out? It wasn't a bunch of agorists who have given up on the system, I can tell you that. I'll work with anyone to get these establishment jokers out because until they're gone, NO ONE, especially no one liberty-oriented, is going to be able to take their place.

lol you have a lot to learn about Agorists.

Back in the day I like to think that I had a lot, or at least some, to do with getting him out. I and others in my circle did a tremendous amount of activism over in Ohio, we blanketed everywhere we could to get the truth out about Boehner. The problem was, when he got ousted as speaker, they put Paul Ryan into that position.

You are absolutely right - no one liberty-oriented will take their place, because you and most others have that attitude and prevents it from happening. I see that at every single committee meeting I attend, so it’s nothing new to me.

[nobody's_hero]

lol you have a lot to learn about Agorists.

Back in the day I like to think that I had a lot, or at least some, to do with getting him out. I and others in my circle did a tremendous amount of activism over in Ohio, we blanketed everywhere we could to get the truth out about Boehner. The problem was, when he got ousted as speaker, they put Paul Ryan into that position.

You are absolutely right - no one liberty-oriented will take their place, because you and most others have that attitude and prevents it from happening. I see that at every single committee meeting I attend, so it’s nothing new to me.

Do you ever start out by trying to find common ground at these committee meetings or do you just go for the biggest hot-button issue you can think of and then throw your hands up when you can't seem to get anywhere? Because, my experience is different, but I'm guessing I'm a bit more tactful.

For example I'll start out by saying that medical procedures are the sole and final decision of patients. I get republicans who have, and have not, been vaccinated in agreement. Something like that, as opposed to, 'well your candidate sucks because . . . '

[PAF]

Do you ever start out by trying to find common ground at these committee meetings or do you just go for the biggest hot-button issue you can think of and then throw your hands up when you can't seem to get anywhere? Because, my experience is different, but I'm guessing I'm a bit more tactful.

lol you are certainly a hoot, nobody's_hero lol

Suit and tie, we all know each other personally, we can shoot the $#@! over any topic and get along and laugh. When it comes to politics, they are die-hard neocons, and truly believe liberty, Ron Paul, any sense of individualism and personal responsibility, etc. is an “extremist nut job” philosophy. They are thrilled to have leaders and hierarchy, at the expense of liberty and freedom.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Say what you want about Ron Paul, but he won his supporters with reason and a proven record of integrity. Trump was given his followers by the idiot tube, and has all the integrity of a sand castle just before high-tide.

There are so many better political leaders.

I just don't think the person who shut down the world by using a cold and turning it into a fraudulent pandemic with 'the words just two weeks to flatten the curve, deserves to be anywhere close to being president. He came closer than any other president in destroying America and the free west just with that one unconstitutional and illegal act.

[CCTelander]

Any strategy that relies upon removing the "bad guys" from positions of power and replacing them with good guys" is doomed to failure before it's even begun. That's not how real liberty works.

Want to be free? We already have the strength. We have the numbers. What we lack, apparently, to our everlasting shame, is the will. Until we manage to manifest that will, we'll be slaves.

[PAF]

Any strategy that relies upon removing the "bad guys" from positions of power and replacing them with good guys" is doomed to failure before it's even begun. That's not how real liberty works.

Want to be free? We already have the strength. We have the numbers. What we lack, apparently, to our everlasting shame, is the will. Until we manage to manifest that will, we'll be slaves.

^^^ This times a thousand ^^^

[nobody's_hero]

lol you are certainly a hoot, nobody's_hero lol

Suit and tie, we all know each other personally, we can shoot the $#@! over any topic and get along and laugh. When it comes to politics, they are die-hard neocons, and truly believe liberty, Ron Paul, any sense of individualism and personal responsibility, etc. is an “extremist nut job” philosophy. They are thrilled to have leaders and hierarchy, at the expense of liberty and freedom.

All I can say man is that I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Which says a lot since I live in GA and if anyone has any reason to complain about country-club republicans, it's Georgians. But today there's a real fight against the establishment that just didn't exist outside of Ron Paul circles in 2012. Maybe it just isn't happening in Ohio.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

All I can say man is that I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Which says a lot since I live in GA and if anyone has any reason to complain about country-club republicans, it's Georgians. But today there's a real fight against the establishment that just didn't exist outside of Ron Paul circles in 2012. Maybe it just isn't happening in Ohio.

I wonder if you two (as types) could get together and convince the current gop politicians (even though they aren't ron paul type republicans) to come together with some sort of strong commitment on a list of items, seeing the country (and world) is in a shambles. Something like a newt gingrinch deal but lead this time by a freedom type.

There doesn't seem to be any strong leadership type, and the congressional gop are pretty much running solitaire. A lot of times primaries are more important than elections, but here I think this time might be more important than 2024. The benefit is assuming the (I know gag) gingrinch mantle, (he gained a lot by it anyway), which may be more beneficial for the liberty movement than early 2024 primary wins, and not just that, but for the whole country.

What is needed is a list of principles of freedom and points the whole country needs, and something that they all can be talked into being on board of. I can think of endless things, but maybe something short like five items. Then the person / persons to sell it who have enough clout, common sense, and diplomacy to do it.

[nobody's_hero]

I wonder if you two (as types) could get together and convince the current gop politicians (even though they aren't ron paul type republicans) to come together with some sort of strong commitment on a list of items, seeing the country (and world) is in a shambles. Something like a newt gingrinch deal but lead this time by a freedom type.

There doesn't seem to be any strong leadership type, and the congressional gop are pretty much running solitaire. A lot of times primaries are more important than elections, but here I think this time might be more important than 2024. The benefit is assuming the (I know gag) gingrinch mantle, (he gained a lot by it anyway), which may be more beneficial for the liberty movement than early 2024 primary wins, and not just that, but for the whole country.

What is needed is a list of principles of freedom and points the whole country needs, and something that they all can be talked into being on board of. I can think of endless things, but maybe something short like five items. Then the person / persons to sell it who have enough clout, common sense, and diplomacy to do it.

Well the problem is that most liberty types don't really want to be leaders. But anyone can see what happened to this place after Ron Paul retired. We think we get by just fine without leaders . . . but in actuality I'm not so sure. Sadly, "alpha" libertarians are in short supply.

If I were suggesting that we work with the liberals on the few things we have in common (if we still have them in common, like, not policing the world), I would be heralded as some great reasonable uniter of men. But I suggest we do the very same thing among republicans and I'm met with 'OMG That'll never happen. They're all neocons and the GOP is a lost cause.'

This, to me, speaks volumes about the size of the chip on our shoulders for how we were treated in 2008/2012. I'm gonna be brutally honest: No one cares about that except us. They will care, though, when it happens to them. And it is happening to them. And that is our opening.

-------------------------
When Ron Paul managed to get everyone to come together for that 3rd party press conference in 2008, there was really only about 4 principles that he could get everyone to agree on:

Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan, Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda, threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia [today: Ukraine]. We must be willing to talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear first strike against all nations.

Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. [<-----I bet that one would be really popular with the GOP voters today especially]. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar. We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden on a future generation.

The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the banking, corporate, and other financial institutions.

(I wonder what the reception would be if you read that same list of principles to a voter (Foreign policy tweaked a bit for more current events), perhaps without mentioning the author. My guess is you'd be surprised at the response. Then you can tell them the author after they agree )

[LibertyEagle]

I take it you weren't present during all of the corruption.

Grudge, perhaps, but more importantly, I don't forget, and I learn from the past. Further, Committees today are no different than they were in 2012, when they chanted Romney USA USA, and Trump MAGA today. In fact, it's worse, because nowadays any mention of budgets and deficits is deer in headlights, TSA is accepted and the norm, and the call for more police to enforce unjust laws is more prevalent among so-called "conservatives" than I can ever remember.

Forest for the trees?

It would be a good idea to lay off of the all-encompassing conservative slams. You do realize that the same broad brush you applied can also be used on libertarians, right?

[TheTexan]

When Ron Paul managed to get everyone to come together for that 3rd party press conference in 2008, there was really only about 4 principles that he could get everyone to agree on:

The importance of secession/nullification was not as clear then as it is now, but with age comes wisdom.

[nobody's_hero]

What is needed is a list of principles of freedom and points the whole country needs, and something that they all can be talked into being on board of. I can think of endless things, but maybe something short like five items. Then the person / persons to sell it who have enough clout, common sense, and diplomacy to do it.

Something like that would be much needed today.

And lastly I'm going to pull an excerpt from one of my all-time favorite posts here on RPF:
@PAF @acptulsa @CCTelander @devil21 @Awholebunchofpeopleonthisforum

At this point, spreading the light of pure libertarianism to the average American is already like proselytizing for a strange alien religion with orange and blue morality in an unknown and unpleasant-sounding language, with vaguely threatening hand gestures. Our education strategy thus far has been, "Let's start with Libertarianism 710 with Ron Paul and proceed to Libertarianism 896 with Walter Block." Our audience is not remotely ready for that yet. We need to focus on the preschool basics here like "Stop stabbing each other with scissors," because that's where everyone else is at.

I would suggest that they're more ready for it now than they were even just a few years ago when Mini Me posted that dissertation. But they're still stabbing each other with scissors, so yeah.

[Swordsmyth]

Been on that bandwagon. It's like a NASCAR stocker. It keeps turning left.

It's not going roughly our direction. It's going roughly their direction. And you've admitted that, and said the reason you're constantly trying to shove everyone on that bandwagon like a Tokyo subway people packer is because it's only roughly going their direction.



You had better save that grease for your own goalposts.

You were never on the MAGA bandwagon and MAGA doesn't turn left.
We are doing to the GOP what Ron told us all to do, taking it over and changing it permanently.
Trump and MAGA are the only hope of stopping the fall into a century of communism and starting to reverse the damage don in the last century.

[Swordsmyth]

If the are irrelevant and impotent, then they cannot help defeat the fraud.

If they can help defeat the fraud, then they cannot be irrelevant and impotent.

You do not get to have it both ways. The Law of Non-Contradiction is a thing.

It is their choices and actions that make them both or end their current status.
It's not a contradiction, it's a choice.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump connected with people better than Ron because more people wanted what Trump was offering than what Ron Paul was.

Ron Paul didn't want to hand out more freebies to people and corporations, didn't want to run people's lives, and didn't want to run the economy. Trump did want to do all those things and made a big point about promising to, and the voting public liked that about him.

LOL

Trump was far from perfect but he did not promise those things.
He promised much of what Ron promised and sold it better.

[Swordsmyth]

So then, who forced Boehner out? It wasn't a bunch of agorists who have given up on the system, I can tell you that. I'll work with anyone to get these establishment jokers out because until they're gone, NO ONE, especially no one liberty-oriented, is going to be able to take their place.

Giving up is exactly what the establishment wants us to do.
They would prefer to be "divine right" hereditary nobility ruling over passive peasants.

[Swordsmyth]

Well the problem is that most liberty types don't really want to be leaders. But anyone can see what happened to this place after Ron Paul retired. We think we get by just fine without leaders . . . but in actuality I'm not so sure. Sadly, "alpha" libertarians are in short supply.

If I were suggesting that we work with the liberals on the few things we have in common (if we still have them in common, like, not policing the world), I would be heralded as some great reasonable uniter of men. But I suggest we do the very same thing among republicans and I'm met with 'OMG That'll never happen. They're all neocons and the GOP is a lost cause.'

This, to me, speaks volumes about the size of the chip on our shoulders for how we were treated in 2008/2012. I'm gonna be brutally honest: No one cares about that except us. They will care, though, when it happens to them. And it is happening to them. And that is our opening.

-------------------------
When Ron Paul managed to get everyone to come together for that 3rd party press conference in 2008, there was really only about 4 principles that he could get everyone to agree on:



(I wonder what the reception would be if you read that same list of principles to a voter (Foreign policy tweaked a bit for more current events), perhaps without mentioning the author. My guess is you'd be surprised at the response. Then you can tell them the author after they agree )

It's not just the grudge, many people who entered the movement were leftists first, last, and always.
They have done everything they can to prevent a liberty alliance with the liberty oriented conservatives from the very beginning.
Many of them aggravated the allergic reaction by some Republicans that helped get Ron shut out by people who were not really our enemies by pushing the leftist side of the libertarian agenda in the faces of the very GOP voters we needed to vote for Ron.

[Occam's Banana]

It is their choices and actions that make them both or end their current status.
It's not a contradiction, it's a choice.

It is a contradiction, and it will continue being a contradiction, no matter how many times you repeat it using different words.

If they are irrelevant and impotent, then their choices cannot be of any significance or consequence.

But if their choices are significant or consequential, then they cannot be irrelevant and impotent.

You do not get to have it both ways.

[acptulsa]

It is a contradiction, and it will continue being a contradiction, no matter how many times you repeat it using different words.

If they are irrelevant and impotent, then their choices cannot be of any significance or consequence.

But if their choices are significant or consequential, then they cannot be irrelevant and impotent.

You do not get to have it both ways.

Hey. Democrats repeat lies over and over until people believe them all the time. Why can't he? Isn't he better than a Democrat? I mean, when he uses their sleazy propaganda tactics he may make it look like conservatives can be just as dishonest manipulative as Democrats. But he's still better than them, right?

[Invisible Man]

Trump was far from perfect but he did not promise those things.

He definitely did. He went out of his way to distinguish himself from the rest of the GOP field by being the pro-big-government alternative. Winning the Iowa caucus by appealing to farmers with a promise to increase the ethanol mandate, and painting Cruz's moderate proposal to phase it out as the dumbest far right wing idea ever, was a case in point.

And that was a formula he used over and over. He loved to paint himself as being not tied down by partisan commitments starting off sentences with something like, "Now this is not a very Republican idea, but...."

I agree that he tempered the Republican party's neoconservative world-policing tendencies better than most other Republicans. But outside of that one issue, he campaigned on a big government platform straight down the line.

[acptulsa]

MAGA doesn't turn left.

You're right.



He doesn't have to. He's just as much a Democrat as he ever was.

[BSWPaulsen]

Trump is not the best man for the job in the sense of being competent. He simply represents the option with the most popular support that is not a complete loss for the average American in comparison to a modern Democrat. At best, he is a Band-Aid on an already gangrenous wound.

His slogan, Maka America Great Again, simply harnessed a feeling that was already prevalent in a large portion of the populace. He rode it to victory without ever really understanding what that feeling actually entailed or what is needed to fix the country. This is reflected in the people he surrounded himself with as president. Simply put, this country is already at war, and he is not the man that will defeat the left. At this time, the identity of that man is not known and may never be known. It is much more likely that this country goes the way of Rome and collapses as a result of decadence and moral degeneration on the part of the founding population, and the invasion of outsiders that will alter the country to their liking.

Whatever his revenge may potentially entail, it sure as hell is not the outright elimination of corrupt institutions, and life sentences in prison for every member of those institutions linked to corruption or abuse of power. The government agencies abolished, and the number of politicians and bureaucrats sent to prison would be of such a scale that it would likely appall the uninformed. That is vital if this country has any hope, and Trump will never be the man that pursues that course of action. Indeed, the man that accomplishes that would also have to step away once the job was done. Donald Trump is not George Washington or Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus.

[Madison320]

That is a really damning list of numbers for the deplorables.

Yeah, as I keep saying I agree with the "Trump is less bad" argument. He's clearly less bad than Biden or any other democrat. My issue is when the Trumpsters claim Trump was actually making the country "better". You would assume better would mean more freedom, more capitalism, less government and less socialism. But that is obviously false. We're are much more socialist after Trump, the spending numbers prove it.

What really bother me the most is the idiotic idea that we wouldn't be having inflation under Trump. That's where it's obvious the Trumpsters don't understand basic economics. Inflation comes directly from printing money to finance government spending. That's it. Trump spent like a drunken sailor. Do the math.

[Anti Globalist]

There's not a single bombshell that Trump can drop two years from now that's going to have the Democrats put their hands in the air and say they're conceding the 2024 election.

[TheTexan]

It is a contradiction, and it will continue being a contradiction, no matter how many times you repeat it using different words.

If they are irrelevant and impotent, then their choices cannot be of any significance or consequence.

But if their choices are significant or consequential, then they cannot be irrelevant and impotent.

You do not get to have it both ways.

Perhaps SS is applying quantum mechanics to the contradiction.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.10701

We never find a physical system which can be both hot and cold at the same time. Here, we show that for a quantum system, it is possible to have superposition of two temperatures which can lead to a situation that it can be found both in hot and cold state.

[Occam's Banana]

Perhaps SS is applying quantum mechanics to the contradiction.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.10701

We never find a physical system which can be both hot and cold at the same time. Here, we show that for a quantum system, it is possible to have superposition of two temperatures which can lead to a situation that it can be found both in hot and cold state.

[Swordsmyth]

You're right.



He doesn't have to. He's just as much a Democrat as he ever was.

You mean the nonMAGA RINO Congress is.