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Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
The easy way would be elect Massie president, and start even sooner by filling congress with people who want to dismantle it all.
There are a whole selection of other options, of course. Following the same old walking talking Alpha Pacifier around is one. They're all harder, take longer, and don't lead to outcomes as good.
We don't need charismatic alphas to do the actual job. Anyone honest and stubborn can rip that crap apart, if the public would only wake up to the absolute necessity of it.
Hopefully GOP wins majority in House & Massey gets leadership position
Well damn, I was hoping you had something realistic in mind, not our old libertarian pipe dream.
I doubt that Massie will be running for president and if he did, probably wouldn't do any better than Rand did.
I love Thomas Massie, but realistically he doesn't have some huge following that we can use to move the GOP into a new small government, fiscally conservative age.
I had hopes that Rand would beat Trump in 2016 and bring forth our pipe dream, but I saw how that worked out.
I am now more interested in realistic steps. One of the first things that must be recognized is that the DC Machine is a much bigger iceberg than it appears to be. This is so far beyond electing an honest person to rip apart. Literally 95% of the people in DC will fight against the honest person. If their is one thing that unites these government workers, it is the compulsion to protect itself from external threats to reduce their power.
It seems to me that there is an actual movement within Republican voters to fight the DC Machine for this movement, Trump has been a catalyst. You may not like the movement or want or help the movement, but it exists and will continue regardless of you. This movement is far bigger than anything we did in 2008 or 2012 and I don't think Thomas Massie could create something bigger either.
Even if we assume your premise that Trump is a complete fraud, it doesn't matter because the movement is bigger than him and would carry on even if he died today. It now encompasses people like Ron DeSantis and Kristi Noem. Soon it will have new players like Kari Lake and Blake Masters, if their is a fair election here in AZ.
To me, the important thing is that Republican voters are rejecting the liberal establishment Republican politicians and they see the Republican party as part of the problem. That to me is winning and something that can be built on.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
It looks like it'll continue without Trump, too. You think you're actually more realistic than me. But you could stand to put your ear to the ground.
I'm not the only person uninterested in trying to make Trump the Antichrist, and getting screwed for my efforts.
Because this isn't about butthurt, much as you favor sprinkling the word about. This is about abandoning failed strategies and trying something that could actually work. Something you might consider, as Republicans are indeed over Trump. Some actually recognize a failed strategy when they've been screwed by one.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
The GOP might be over him, but the people are far from over him.
I posted 2 videos streamed live from Trumps home in Florida. Might watch and see how much support he has.
any Rallies,, and in every State ,,Trump flags are still Flying Everywhere.
how you gonna turn that? or spin that?
you don't have to be a supporter to Observe it.. Coast to Coast.
you do have to be damn stupid to ignore it.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Don't bother with the TDS trolls here.
They will blame him for everything Congress and the bureaucracy forced through (he vetoed the last NDAA just to prove they would override any vetoes) and deny all the good things he did, they will even make up and repeat garbage like the misinterpretation of what Massie said (when even Massie was provably wrong) to claim he was in league with Pelosi long after it has been proven to be a lie.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
guys you have to support the clear frontrunner that isn't a DEMOCRAT at this point.
If it's Trump, then we woud rather he wins than the DEMOCRATS.
This doesn't mean we won't vote Paul, Massie, even De Santis over Trump, we would, but if Trump wins the primary
and you live in a swing state or Trump state then you have to vote for Trump.
There is no satisfaction in wasting a vote on some 0-2% alternative which only makes it more likely DEMOCRATS win
and could even have been surreptitiously funded by pro-DEMOCRAT operatives to siphon off votes from GOP.
I've done it and you've probably done it. It accomplished NOTHING.
Soon the DEMOCRATS will RAMROD **** MARRIAGE through the Congress - which is a GREIVOUS ABUSE of the legislature, a full blown unconsitutional maneuvre that serves as just one example of their PLANS. They would have already RAMORODDED PRO-CHOICE through if they had the votes for it. States have NO RIGHTS under the DEMOCRAT concept of government.
They are blood enemies of America.
Last edited by Snowball; 08-10-2022 at 07:53 AM.
"When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch
Why? So self-styled conservatives can sit on their hands for four more years, ignoring the tanking of the economy, unprecedented cronyism to Big Pharma, and do nothing because "our team" is in power?
I like conservatives better when Democrats are in power. They actually fight back then. They don't just sit around with orange pacifiers in their mouths while the nation is destroyed without irritating interruptions.
Republicans still refuse to nominate someone people can vote for. They still got nothing but reasons to vote against the other "team", none of which is, we actually do govern better, or even, we govern less.
"When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch
Irrelevant, because Trump has already proven that he's perfectly willing, just as willing as any other DEMOCRAT, to leave it worse than he found it. And so did two Bushes, Reagan, Ford and Nixon.
GOP: Only voting for Republicans can save the country!
Also GOP: *Nominates another Democrat* *Nominates the same old Democrat*
Want to do something useful while Rome burns? Here:
Or better yet, how about an instrument suckers can play?
Republicans. Here is a preview of 2025, during the next GOP Administration. And you know it's accurate:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cleaner44 again.
Not to mention this corruption didn't happen over night, it happened while we were sleeping. The things that are happening to Trump are what they will do to all of us, if we do not take a stand right here and right now.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
We wish. We don't get nice, polite daytime search warrants, hold the battering ram and the grenades, please.
A great many voters are ready to try anything that hasn't already been tried and failed. So what are they being offered? Trump's acting really pissed now!
Kiss the country goodbye. Saying, "I just couldn't stand to admit I was wrong about that spoiled New York Democrat" is more important to people than saving it is.
Something--anything--other than a plan which has been proven to fail.
What you seem to not understand, is the country was lost a long time ago. People have been sleeping for years...this is the great awakening that is transitioning upon us all. This is bigger than Trump, but it is his persecutions that people need to witness to wake them out of their slumber.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Who are you talking about, donnay? I know you aren't talking about your Lord and Savior, but I've never seen you talk about anyone else that way.
You're taking it on faith Trump is suffering, no whip lashing out thirty-nine times, no thorns, no spear, no nails, but you're talking about a guy who endured one polite daylight search as if He Endured the Passion for us poor sinners.
Clearly the media wants to declare that the age of Trump is over. I can understand why they want that. They are wrong and what has been ignited will burn even if Trump died to day. They woke up 10s of millions of voters, far beyond what we did with the Ron Paul campaigns. I like to think that the work we did from 2007-2012 laid the groundwork for all of this.
Thank you mam. When Trump says they aren't going after him, they are going after us, that rings true for many millions of voters. We are about to feel it even more with the new bigger bolder IRS. I am hoping that enough anti-establishment Republicans can get into Congress to actually make a difference. It certainly is an uphill battle and the GOP will be throwing up roadblocks.
I certainly am not claiming that, but get real, the Republican establishment is working hard with Democrats to stop any and all Trump endorsed candidates. I see this as a war between Republican voters and establishment Republican politicians. It is a continuation of the war we started in 2007. Some of these new Trump endorsed candidates are libertarianish (see Blake Masters) and some are not, but the fight is what is important to me. The anti-establishment Trump candidates are winning the primary war by a large margin. I see this as a good thing. It seems like you don't, which I find odd.
Your TDS regarding the spoiled New York Democrat is blinding you to the opportunity. You seem to be so focused on bitching about him that you can't see the good coming out of his presence.
I don't know that there is some grand plan that has failed. I see 10s of millions of people getting pissed at the federal government finally and that is HUGE. In 2007 our warnings largely fell on deaf ears. A large amount of Republican voters now know not to trust FOX News. They now know that Mitch McConnell is not to be trusted.
The first step to recovery is admitting and acknowledging that there is a problem. In 2007 we didn't have many Republican voters agreeing with us that there was a major problem. That has changed dramatically now in my opinion. These people are our allies and we libertarians can't fix any of this crap without their help. Your continued crapping on Trump and his supporters is counter-productive. What is productive is building bridges and insisting the GOP gets back to its roots of a small, limited government, libertarian based party.
America First is a war of conservatives vs globalists. For me, choosing sides is an easy decision.
Look past the forest... see the trees.
Even if you don't, this is happening.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
No, it isn't. Your sole problem with me is that I refuse to let you lie about me, which you have repeatedly tried to do. I see the opportunity. I just believe supporting Trump makes it an opportunity for Trump, not me.
The opportunity is there and DonnieJohnnie Trump is simply not the only person on the face of the earth who can seize it.
I am not lying about you at all, just observing you cry and whine about who gets credit for the current state of politics.
I don't give a crap if you support Trump or any other America First type candidates. If Massie decides to run for president we will both support him. Meanwhile I am happy to support the people that are running and fighting the DC Machine. You do you.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
Cool. Please let us know how successful your movement is and when you need help.
P.S.
I am not promoting Trump, I am promoting the America First movement. It really looks to me like the best opportunity to further the mission to:
- Secure individual liberty
- Seek justice
- Promote honest and free markets
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
It's a given that Trump was better than any democrat. What bothered me was when Trump supporters here were actually arguing that the things Trump was doing were increasing liberty!
A couple of examples were the massive spending programs and the targeted tariffs. I get that Trump is better than Biden but don't tell me making government bigger and targeted tariffs is actually INCREASING our liberty. The correct response would've been yeah, it sucks but it would've been worse if it was a democrat.
I posted probably a dozen times here that I wanted Biden to win so that the coming inflationary depression would get blamed on democrats and socialism. I don't think anybody else here saw it coming. If Trump had won the media would be blaming the economic collapse on Trump and "capitalism". The problem being that Trump was more of a socialist than a capitalist which is why I knew we were headed for this crisis.
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