Kansas Rejects Anti-Abortion Amendment

[Voluntarist]

Kansas Rejects Amendment 2

Kansas voters resoundingly rejected a measure which, if passed, would have established no right to abortion and no right to public funding for abortion under the state constitution.

A "yes" vote on the measure, Amendment 2, would have eliminated the right to abortion under the state Constitution, while the "no" vote would leave the constitutional protections to abortion in Kansas unchanged.

The rejection of the ballot measures leaves intact a 2019 decision by the state Supreme Court establishing a right to abortion under the Kansas Bill of Rights.
...
The amendment was on the ballot as a yes-no question, and would have required a simple majority of the vote to pass. The"yes" vote on the amendment was losing by over 30 points when Insider and Decision Desk HQ projected that "no" had won shortly before 9 p.m. local time.

With heavy turnout

[wizardwatson]

Kansas Rejects Amendment 2


With heavy turnout

Yep. Very sad.

Republicans outnumber Democrats by almost 2 to 1 in this state and this still was defeated 60-40. So we can't blame this on the dems. And I personally know Christians who were against the amendment.

And realize, the amendment was just to state that the Kansas Constitution does NOT give you a "fundamental right to abort" which is what KS Supreme Court ruled, taking the power out of the legislatures hands to even regulate it.

And people came out in droves to vote. Not for ending war. Not for saving the rain forests. For protecting the right to kill the unborn as an absolute right.

Very sad.

[wizardwatson]

I would also point out that KS Supreme Court decided this based on this in the KS Constitution:

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/26/71744...ht-to-abortion

The decision continues: "We are now asked: 'Is this declaration of rights more than an idealized aspiration? And, if so, do the substantive rights include a woman's right to make decisions about her body, including the decision whether to continue her pregnancy? We answer these questions, 'Yes.' "

The court continued that "this right allows a woman to make her own decisions regarding her body, health, family formation, and family life — decisions that can include whether to continue a pregnancy."

"The State may only infringe upon the right to decide whether to continue a pregnancy," the ruling continued, "if the State has a compelling interest and has narrowly tailored its actions to that interest."

But they should note, the KS Constitution also says in the preamble this here phrase:

We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty
God for our civil and religious privileges, in order
to insure the full enjoyment of our rights as
American citizens, do ordain and establish this
constitution of the state of Kansas

As I have told others, if the high court of KS wants to rule in such a way, they ought to pass an amendment to-at the very least-remove God's name from it. Because by implication, you are saying God gave you the "unalienable right to abort".

I can assure you as someone who has read the whole thing, He most certainly did not.

[Anti Federalist]

Yep. Very sad.

Republicans outnumber Democrats by almost 2 to 1 in this state and this still was defeated 60-40. So we can't blame this on the dems. And I personally know Christians who were against the amendment.

And realize, the amendment was just to state that the Kansas Constitution does NOT give you a "fundamental right to abort" which is what KS Supreme Court ruled, taking the power out of the legislatures hands to even regulate it.

And people came out in droves to vote. Not for ending war. Not for saving the rain forests. For protecting the right to kill the unborn as an absolute right.

Very sad.

75 percent of the Kansas population is still white.

Nothing is more important to a typical white woman, regardless of political affilaition, than the "right" to kill her offspring.

This is more Roe fallout.

Look for it to have a major impact in the fall elections.

[Swordsmyth]

75 percent of the Kansas population is still white.

Nothing is more important to a typical white woman, regardless of political affilaition, than the "right" to kill her offspring.

This is more Roe fallout.

Look for it to have a major impact in the fall elections.

It's an anomaly or fraud:

Supreme Court approval ticks *up* after end of Roe

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022...of-roe-n486859

[Snowball]

This was a legitimate election run by a Pro-Life Secretary of State.

I am disgusted and saddened by this. The only consolation is we knew that Kansas is not a truly conservative state,
it is a purple state, but still, the high turnout of native Kansan women who are Pro-Choice says a lot about American women today.

[paleocon1]

Yep. Very sad.

Republicans outnumber Democrats by almost 2 to 1 in this state and this still was defeated 60-40. So we can't blame this on the dems. And I personally know Christians who were against the amendment.

And realize, the amendment was just to state that the Kansas Constitution does NOT give you a "fundamental right to abort" which is what KS Supreme Court ruled, taking the power out of the legislatures hands to even regulate it.

And people came out in droves to vote. Not for ending war. Not for saving the rain forests. For protecting the right to kill the unborn as an absolute right.

Very sad.

The total votes cast regarding the amendment are much higher than the total votes cast in the statewide gov and senate primaries for both parties combined. My guess is lots of mail in vote fraud in the urban counties. Lots of ballots voting only on the amendment. Maybe some tinkering with the voting machines. There was fraud.

[oyarde]

I look at it as women in hansas and elsewhere believe in using tax dollars to kill babies. This is pretty well where you end up if you let women vote. Time to face reality , wile your standing in line at the grocer , look around , you are surrounded by gouls.

[Voluntarist]

The total votes cast regarding the amendment are much higher than the total votes cast in the statewide gov and senate primaries for both parties combined. My guess is lots of mail in vote fraud in the urban counties. Lots of ballots voting only on the amendment. Maybe some tinkering with the voting machines. There was fraud.

Let's see if @wizardwatson can verify this, but I thought Kansas only allows people registered with the two major parties to cast votes for their own party's candidates in the primaries. Minor parties nominate their candidates at conventions. And Independents can only vote for party candidates if they switch their registration from Independent to one of the major parties. My understanding was that this was one of the major reasons that the Republican-majority legislature put this measure on the ballot in the August primary slot - they figured they outnumbered the democrats and that independents wouldn't show up. Botta Bing, Botta Bang, instant passage. Unfortunately for those backing the amendment, Independents showed up big time.

[Swordsmyth]

Let's see if @wizardwatson can verify this, but I thought Kansas only allows people registered with the two major parties to cast votes for their own party's candidates in the primaries. Minor parties nominate their candidates at conventions. And Independents can only vote for party candidates if they switch their registration from Independent to one of the major parties. My understanding was that this was one of the major reasons that the Republican-majority legislature put this measure on the ballot in the August primary slot - they figured they outnumbered the democrats and that independents wouldn't show up. Botta Bing, Botta Bang, instant passage. Unfortunately for those backing the amendment, Independents showed up big time.

Independents voting is the perfect cover for mystery ballots.

[donnay]

Sounds like sleight of hand to me.

[wizardwatson]

Let's see if @wizardwatson can verify this, but I thought Kansas only allows people registered with the two major parties to cast votes for their own party's candidates in the primaries. Minor parties nominate their candidates at conventions. And Independents can only vote for party candidates if they switch their registration from Independent to one of the major parties. My understanding was that this was one of the major reasons that the Republican-majority legislature put this measure on the ballot in the August primary slot - they figured they outnumbered the democrats and that independents wouldn't show up. Botta Bing, Botta Bang, instant passage. Unfortunately for those backing the amendment, Independents showed up big time.

I would say that's definitely how "I" would have strategized, having worked in campaigns myself years back.

Even I initially thought this would pass. Only after seeing many conservatives and Christians falling for the "vast right-wing conspiracy to roll back human rights" angle, did I see that I was wrong as well.

This is an empowering victory for the left. They will milk this in the midterms. Abortion has become the flag of human rights.

So yes, I think this shows that the right has miscalculated here, and it also shows that many in the "right" unite with the left on this issue. There are more abortion amendments coming up in various states on the November ballot.

The whole thing makes me question the real agenda behind the overturning of Roe.

From a Christian perspective is makes sense the the moral degeneracy has progressed from "pride" boot-licking to protecting the "right to kill the unborn". This is the sin for which God judged the Canaanites when Israel first took the holy land, burning their sons and daughters in the fire. Others have wrote about this, but the idea that humans have changed all that much from the days of Molek worship is unfounded if one simply reads the bible. Viewing the killing of your children as a "sacrament" ("a selfless sacrifice to the Gods for a blessing" in the case of Molek-worship, to the modern "women taking back their bodily autonomy from the misogynistic white patriarchy") is not new. God knows the hearts of men, and the mental gymnastics we are capable of in our quest to make our worst sins not just "ok" through moral relativism, but a "sacrament" in the idol worship of humanism.

And just like the "compassionate" Jew of old joined hands and married into these cultures ("who are we to judge") the modern day Christians have likewise been unfaithful to God in making excuses and condoning sinful behavior. Not that this sin is the "sin of all sins". I believe many young women are pressured, their sin is many times selfishness and cowardice. The doctors who perform it and the priests of the day who push it, their sin is greater. In other words, the personal sin is certainly an issue, but there are prophetic implications of national judgement that this is now the hot issue of today...that America is uniting around defending an idol of Molek.

As Joe Dirt said, "Is this where you wanna be when Jesus comes back?"

[wizardwatson]

The total votes cast regarding the amendment are much higher than the total votes cast in the statewide gov and senate primaries for both parties combined. My guess is lots of mail in vote fraud in the urban counties. Lots of ballots voting only on the amendment. Maybe some tinkering with the voting machines. There was fraud.

(Total KS registered voters by month 2022)
https://sos.ks.gov/elections/electio...tics-data.html
Date Rep Dem Lib Unaff Total
01/2022 852,000 495,760 21,453 546,161 1,915,374
02/2022 851,036 494,847 21,513 547,815 1,915,211
03/2022 850,227 494,021 21,544 549,061 1,914,853
04/2022 850,433 493,590 21,652 551,920 1,917,595
05/2022 850,464 493,489 21,759 554,044 1,919,756
06/2022 850,553 493,661 21,891 556,542 1,922,647
07/2022 851,882 495,574 22,207 560,309 1,929,972

Amendment Question results:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ts-kansas.html
No
538,709 58.9%
Yes
376,002 41.1%

Total reported
914,711

The primary turnout in 2020 in KS was 34.2% of 1,861,264 registered voters.

In the 2022 primary EVERYONE got to vote on the amendment. I'm registered libertarian so the abortion amendment was the only thing on my ballot. So based on the 914,711 total votes counted on that amendment, we know the turnout is 47% (914,711 votes out of 1,929,972).

I think this shows...

#1) that there weren't a bunch of new registered voters. There was a less than 1% (0.84%) increase in registered voters from 2021, but it's actually LESS registered voters than there were in KS in 2020 primary.

#2) Unaffiliated and Libertarian voters actually had a reason to show up for the primaries where normally they wouldn't. In KS, they account for 30% of registered voters.

#3) While the turnout was significantly higher than normal primaries at 47%, it still wasn't close to the general election turnout in 2020 which was 70.9%.

Don't really think this is fraud, sorry.

[sparebulb]

Kansas is a freak show.

Always has been.

John Brown is the epitome of the arrogant, holier than thou, Kansan.

There is no level of murder that is unacceptable for them to enforce their values on others.

It is no surprise that Kansas always elects senators with a direct line to the new world order.

[vita3]

Don't really think this is fraud, sorry.


Agree

[Voluntarist]

GOP Senators Say Kansas Abortion Result A 'Wake-Up Call' For Party

Republican senators were surprised by Tuesday’s huge win for abortion rights in Kansas, of all places, even as they sought to downplay the electoral implications for their party ahead of November’s midterm elections.
...
The vote is likely to make Republicans in swing districts nervous, especially if they’re on the ballot with a similar referendum on abortion, like in California. It’s still unclear, however, whether voters in other states without abortion rights explicitly on the ballot will head to the polls in similar numbers in November.
...
Even polling from Senate Republicans’ campaign arm has suggested the party’s stance on abortion rights isn’t politically ideal: In May, following the leak of a draft of the Supreme Court decision that ended Roe, the National Republican Senatorial Committee released a polling presentation on how their candidates should discuss abortion issues.

In it, they asked voters to choose between two candidates. The first, a Republican, supports “banning abortions after 15 weeks with exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother or severe fatal abnormality of the baby.” The second, a Democrat, “supports unlimited abortion up until the moment of birth.”

The poll found 53% of voters would choose the Republican, while just 28% would choose the Democrat.

The obvious flaw in the survey? There does not appear to be a single member of the Republican caucus who holds the outlined position.

So what happens from here?
Does the GOP abortion plank eventually become "Ban abortion after 15 weeks (with exceptions)"?

[Marenco]

One of the few good things that has come out of Kansas...

[Swordsmyth]

Sounds like sleight of hand to me.

Many have pointed out that the ballot measure was worded poorly to the point it may have caused confusion about what Yes and No meant.
I'm sure every trick in the book was used.
There should be an investigation to look for fraud, but even if there was no fraud I do not believe this is representative of the people of Kansas. (let alone of the rest of the country)

[donnay]

Many have pointed out that the ballot measure was worded poorly to the point it may have caused confusion about what Yes and No meant.
I'm sure every trick in the book was used.
There should be an investigation to look for fraud, but even if there was no fraud I do not believe this is representative of the people of Kansas. (let alone of the rest of the country)

They do that in our state too. It is annoying because it trips up many people into agreeing for something that generally they wouldn't agree to.

[Anti Federalist]

Others have wrote about this, but the idea that humans have changed all that much from the days of Molek worship is unfounded if one simply reads the bible. Viewing the killing of your children as a "sacrament" ("a selfless sacrifice to the Gods for a blessing" in the case of Molek-worship, to the modern "women taking back their bodily autonomy from the misogynistic white patriarchy") is not new. God knows the hearts of men, and the mental gymnastics we are capable of in our quest to make our worst sins not just "ok" through moral relativism, but a "sacrament" in the idol worship of humanism.

IIRC weren't the the Canaanites' Molech idols made of brass with a fire pit in the belly for the specific purpose of tendering burnt offerings of your firstborn children?

Meanwhile in the UK just a couple of days ago at the opening ceremony of some sports fest:

[Occam's Banana]

IIRC weren't the the Canaanites' Molech idols made of brass with a fire pit in the belly for the specific purpose of tendering burnt offerings of your firstborn children?

https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status...73982676328449

[CaptUSA]

https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status...73982676328449

Subconscious remorse for committing infanticide? Seems to me like this person's inner soul recognizes she did something horribly wrong and is begging for forgiveness.

[Voluntarist]

Many have pointed out that the ballot measure was worded poorly to the point it may have caused confusion about what Yes and No meant.
I'm sure every trick in the book was used.

Keep in mind that it was written by the supermajority Republican, pro-life Legislature ... who supposedly wanted it to pass (I wonder what subterfuge was involved and who the traitors were)

[Anti-Neocon]

I guess I'm one of the rare people here who doesn't like abortion but also thinks the right should be protected. The main proposals seem to be:
1. Ban providers from performing abortions - desperate women will just find other ways to reach the same endpoint
2. Punishment for women - involves extreme intrusions on privacy

IMO, the abortion fight should happen in public/private discourse (even Ron Paul made the point that you can't legislate morality), rather than trying to get the heavy hand of government to clamp down on it.

How to reduce abortion:
Provide support to those who would be contemplating it (there are a lot of Christian organizations which do this)
Promote adoption / adopt yourself (again, there are private organizations that help with this)
Promoting education / educating your own children about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place

[Voluntarist]

Subconscious remorse for committing infanticide? Seems to me like this person's inner soul recognizes she did something horribly wrong and is begging for forgiveness.

Look at it in the context of a course to assist women (or should I say, pregnant people - it's all so confusing these days) in managing their abortions (for those using mifepristone & misoprostol)
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAP...696lOR9VOEZC5w
Website: https://selfguidedabortion.com/
- Making the choice:
Unsure? How to decide whether to have an abortion or parent.
- Before your abortion:
What to do to prepare for your abortion, and how to create your space.
- During abortion:
What to expect during the abortion process, directions on how to use the pills, and resources for managing pain and bleeding.
- After abortion:
How to know that the abortion is complete, integrating the experience and resources to support emotional and physical healing.

Edited to add:
Something must be awry on the website. I see no mention of eternal damnation or Hellfire.

[CaptUSA]

I guess I'm one of the rare people here who doesn't like abortion but also thinks the right should be protected. The main proposals seem to be:
1. Ban providers from performing abortions - desperate women will just find other ways to reach the same endpoint
2. Punishment for women - involves extreme intrusions on privacy

IMO, the abortion fight should happen in public/private discourse (even Ron Paul made the point that you can't legislate morality), rather than trying to get the heavy hand of government to clamp down on it.

How to reduce abortion:
Provide support to those who would be contemplating it (there are a lot of Christian organizations which do this)
Promote adoption / adopt yourself (again, there are private organizations that help with this)
Promoting education / educating your own children about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place

So I appreciate your comment, but you're already taking the pro-abortion position. If you deem abortion to be the killing of an infant in the womb, then it is murder - and no one has the right to murder. For that reason, it can't be a "right" as you stated. A "right" means you no one can impose their will upon you. Murder is definitely an imposition. And the "heavy hand of government" is often used to prevent or punish murderers.

However, at the state level, there can be a debate about what constitutes "murder". Not all killing is murder. Decisions like this are best made at the state level and NOT the federal level. Sometimes, libertarians will argue about who gets to decide. Well, we usually don't let the murderer decide - even if they killed a puppy.

You can counter with the bodily rights of the mother, but except for rape, the mother has already made the choice to invite the baby into her womb. As a pilot, I can't kick my passengers out mid-air if I decide I no longer want them in my plane - my choice to allow them to board came with an obligation to land the plane before I send them on their way.

At any rate, I just wanted to point that out so you can see how your comments sound to someone who is pro-life.

I, too, worry about enforcement of abortion laws. It's very hard to enforce abortion laws without the troubles you've mentioned. If a state wants to ban abortions, I think the best way is to make the medical practice illegal in the state so that it's not an option reputable doctors can use. If they do, they can be held criminally liable. Yes, desperate people will still want to commit murder for their own convenience, but that shouldn't be a reason to just allow it. Punishment for the mother should be reserved for egregious cases. I don't consider traveling to another state as egregious.

Once the practice is banned, then the community should DEFINITELY:
Provide support for those who get pregnant and are worried about their future. There are enough testimonials out there from parents who weren't ready.
Provide adoption resources for those who reach the conclusion that they still can't raise a child.
Provide education that ALL sex is a choice to get pregnant. Provide education that there are ways to reduce your odds, but nothing is 100%. If you engage in sexual behavior, you are making the choice.

Maybe then, we'll get back to some sort of responsibility instead of this entitlement mentality that has destroyed our culture.

[Occam's Banana]

I guess I'm one of the rare people here who doesn't like abortion but also thinks the right should be protected.

Abortion is a form of homicide. No one has any "right" to commit homicide.

However, there are many different kinds of homicide - such as murder, negligent homicide, justifiable homicide, etc. - and abortion in general does not obviously and automatically fall into any one of those categories. For example, intentionally killing a pregnant mother might count as a double murder, while terminating a pregnancy that endangers the mother's life could be considered justifiable as self-defense. The former would be legally actionable, while the latter would not (at least, not after the determination of "justifiable" was made). It might even be useful to develop entirely new subcategories for "abortive" homicides.

In any case, the issue is nowhere near as simplistic as either side tends to make it out to be ("abortion is a right" vs. "abortion is murder"). Reasonable people can differ over particulars - which is why, as CaptUSA suggested in his previous post, the issue is best dealt with at the most local level feasible, rather than at the federal level. The feds should not be permitted to have any say in the matter at all.

(One thing is certain, though: the fetishization of abortion - like that seen in my previous post - is a deeply disturbing phenomenon.)

[James_Madison_Lives]

I have always been a moderate abortion-on-demand in the first trimester. That doesn't mean the government should have to pay for it. Only a small part of the Republican base is the Evangelical holy rollers on abortion. Most care about inflation, beating back toxic wokeness, and staying out of Neocon wars.

[Swordsmyth]

Kansas’ elections director says the state will go along with a request for a hand recount of votes from every county after last week’s decisive statewide vote affirming abortion rights, even though there was a 165,000-vote difference and a recount won’t change the result.

Melissa Leavitt, of Colby in far western Kansas, requested the recount and declined to comment to reporters Friday evening, citing work obligations. But she said on an online site raising funds for a recount that she had “seen data” about the election.

Also seeking a recount is state Sen. Caryn Tyson, who is trailing state Rep. Steven Johnson in the Republican primary for state treasurer by about 400 votes out of nearly 434,000 cast. She is asking for a hand recount in about half the state’s 105 counties.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/kansas-recoun...233605552.html

[Voluntarist]

Melissa Leavitt, of Colby in far western Kansas, requested the recount and declined to comment to reporters Friday evening, citing work obligations. But she said on an online site raising funds for a recount that she had “seen data” about the election.

But she needs money to cover the cost of the recount

While a recount has been approved, however, it cannot go ahead until Leavitt is able to present a bond to cover the cost of the recount, roughly estimated to be worth $200,000. So far, Leavitt has raised less than $8,000.

Time for a money bomb?