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Thread: Kansas Rejects Anti-Abortion Amendment

  1. #1

    Kansas Rejects Anti-Abortion Amendment

    Kansas Rejects Amendment 2
    Kansas voters resoundingly rejected a measure which, if passed, would have established no right to abortion and no right to public funding for abortion under the state constitution.

    A "yes" vote on the measure, Amendment 2, would have eliminated the right to abortion under the state Constitution, while the "no" vote would leave the constitutional protections to abortion in Kansas unchanged.

    The rejection of the ballot measures leaves intact a 2019 decision by the state Supreme Court establishing a right to abortion under the Kansas Bill of Rights.
    ...
    The amendment was on the ballot as a yes-no question, and would have required a simple majority of the vote to pass. The"yes" vote on the amendment was losing by over 30 points when Insider and Decision Desk HQ projected that "no" had won shortly before 9 p.m. local time.
    With heavy turnout
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Kansas Rejects Amendment 2


    With heavy turnout
    Yep. Very sad.

    Republicans outnumber Democrats by almost 2 to 1 in this state and this still was defeated 60-40. So we can't blame this on the dems. And I personally know Christians who were against the amendment.

    And realize, the amendment was just to state that the Kansas Constitution does NOT give you a "fundamental right to abort" which is what KS Supreme Court ruled, taking the power out of the legislatures hands to even regulate it.

    And people came out in droves to vote. Not for ending war. Not for saving the rain forests. For protecting the right to kill the unborn as an absolute right.

    Very sad.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  4. #3
    I would also point out that KS Supreme Court decided this based on this in the KS Constitution:

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/26/71744...ht-to-abortion

    The decision continues: "We are now asked: 'Is this declaration of rights more than an idealized aspiration? And, if so, do the substantive rights include a woman's right to make decisions about her body, including the decision whether to continue her pregnancy? We answer these questions, 'Yes.' "

    The court continued that "this right allows a woman to make her own decisions regarding her body, health, family formation, and family life — decisions that can include whether to continue a pregnancy."

    "The State may only infringe upon the right to decide whether to continue a pregnancy," the ruling continued, "if the State has a compelling interest and has narrowly tailored its actions to that interest."
    But they should note, the KS Constitution also says in the preamble this here phrase:

    We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty
    God for our civil and religious privileges
    , in order
    to insure the full enjoyment of our rights as
    American citizens, do ordain and establish this
    constitution of the state of Kansas
    As I have told others, if the high court of KS wants to rule in such a way, they ought to pass an amendment to-at the very least-remove God's name from it. Because by implication, you are saying God gave you the "unalienable right to abort".

    I can assure you as someone who has read the whole thing, He most certainly did not.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Yep. Very sad.

    Republicans outnumber Democrats by almost 2 to 1 in this state and this still was defeated 60-40. So we can't blame this on the dems. And I personally know Christians who were against the amendment.

    And realize, the amendment was just to state that the Kansas Constitution does NOT give you a "fundamental right to abort" which is what KS Supreme Court ruled, taking the power out of the legislatures hands to even regulate it.

    And people came out in droves to vote. Not for ending war. Not for saving the rain forests. For protecting the right to kill the unborn as an absolute right.

    Very sad.
    75 percent of the Kansas population is still white.

    Nothing is more important to a typical white woman, regardless of political affilaition, than the "right" to kill her offspring.

    This is more Roe fallout.

    Look for it to have a major impact in the fall elections.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    75 percent of the Kansas population is still white.

    Nothing is more important to a typical white woman, regardless of political affilaition, than the "right" to kill her offspring.

    This is more Roe fallout.

    Look for it to have a major impact in the fall elections.
    It's an anomaly or fraud:

    Supreme Court approval ticks *up* after end of Roe

    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022...of-roe-n486859
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    This was a legitimate election run by a Pro-Life Secretary of State.

    I am disgusted and saddened by this. The only consolation is we knew that Kansas is not a truly conservative state,
    it is a purple state, but still, the high turnout of native Kansan women who are Pro-Choice says a lot about American women today.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Yep. Very sad.

    Republicans outnumber Democrats by almost 2 to 1 in this state and this still was defeated 60-40. So we can't blame this on the dems. And I personally know Christians who were against the amendment.

    And realize, the amendment was just to state that the Kansas Constitution does NOT give you a "fundamental right to abort" which is what KS Supreme Court ruled, taking the power out of the legislatures hands to even regulate it.

    And people came out in droves to vote. Not for ending war. Not for saving the rain forests. For protecting the right to kill the unborn as an absolute right.

    Very sad.
    The total votes cast regarding the amendment are much higher than the total votes cast in the statewide gov and senate primaries for both parties combined. My guess is lots of mail in vote fraud in the urban counties. Lots of ballots voting only on the amendment. Maybe some tinkering with the voting machines. There was fraud.

  9. #8
    I look at it as women in hansas and elsewhere believe in using tax dollars to kill babies. This is pretty well where you end up if you let women vote. Time to face reality , wile your standing in line at the grocer , look around , you are surrounded by gouls.
    Last edited by oyarde; 08-03-2022 at 07:21 PM.
    Do something Danke



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by paleocon1 View Post
    The total votes cast regarding the amendment are much higher than the total votes cast in the statewide gov and senate primaries for both parties combined. My guess is lots of mail in vote fraud in the urban counties. Lots of ballots voting only on the amendment. Maybe some tinkering with the voting machines. There was fraud.
    Let's see if @wizardwatson can verify this, but I thought Kansas only allows people registered with the two major parties to cast votes for their own party's candidates in the primaries. Minor parties nominate their candidates at conventions. And Independents can only vote for party candidates if they switch their registration from Independent to one of the major parties. My understanding was that this was one of the major reasons that the Republican-majority legislature put this measure on the ballot in the August primary slot - they figured they outnumbered the democrats and that independents wouldn't show up. Botta Bing, Botta Bang, instant passage. Unfortunately for those backing the amendment, Independents showed up big time.
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Let's see if @wizardwatson can verify this, but I thought Kansas only allows people registered with the two major parties to cast votes for their own party's candidates in the primaries. Minor parties nominate their candidates at conventions. And Independents can only vote for party candidates if they switch their registration from Independent to one of the major parties. My understanding was that this was one of the major reasons that the Republican-majority legislature put this measure on the ballot in the August primary slot - they figured they outnumbered the democrats and that independents wouldn't show up. Botta Bing, Botta Bang, instant passage. Unfortunately for those backing the amendment, Independents showed up big time.
    Independents voting is the perfect cover for mystery ballots.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Sounds like sleight of hand to me.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Let's see if @wizardwatson can verify this, but I thought Kansas only allows people registered with the two major parties to cast votes for their own party's candidates in the primaries. Minor parties nominate their candidates at conventions. And Independents can only vote for party candidates if they switch their registration from Independent to one of the major parties. My understanding was that this was one of the major reasons that the Republican-majority legislature put this measure on the ballot in the August primary slot - they figured they outnumbered the democrats and that independents wouldn't show up. Botta Bing, Botta Bang, instant passage. Unfortunately for those backing the amendment, Independents showed up big time.
    I would say that's definitely how "I" would have strategized, having worked in campaigns myself years back.

    Even I initially thought this would pass. Only after seeing many conservatives and Christians falling for the "vast right-wing conspiracy to roll back human rights" angle, did I see that I was wrong as well.

    This is an empowering victory for the left. They will milk this in the midterms. Abortion has become the flag of human rights.

    So yes, I think this shows that the right has miscalculated here, and it also shows that many in the "right" unite with the left on this issue. There are more abortion amendments coming up in various states on the November ballot.

    The whole thing makes me question the real agenda behind the overturning of Roe.

    From a Christian perspective is makes sense the the moral degeneracy has progressed from "pride" boot-licking to protecting the "right to kill the unborn". This is the sin for which God judged the Canaanites when Israel first took the holy land, burning their sons and daughters in the fire. Others have wrote about this, but the idea that humans have changed all that much from the days of Molek worship is unfounded if one simply reads the bible. Viewing the killing of your children as a "sacrament" ("a selfless sacrifice to the Gods for a blessing" in the case of Molek-worship, to the modern "women taking back their bodily autonomy from the misogynistic white patriarchy") is not new. God knows the hearts of men, and the mental gymnastics we are capable of in our quest to make our worst sins not just "ok" through moral relativism, but a "sacrament" in the idol worship of humanism.

    And just like the "compassionate" Jew of old joined hands and married into these cultures ("who are we to judge") the modern day Christians have likewise been unfaithful to God in making excuses and condoning sinful behavior. Not that this sin is the "sin of all sins". I believe many young women are pressured, their sin is many times selfishness and cowardice. The doctors who perform it and the priests of the day who push it, their sin is greater. In other words, the personal sin is certainly an issue, but there are prophetic implications of national judgement that this is now the hot issue of today...that America is uniting around defending an idol of Molek.

    As Joe Dirt said, "Is this where you wanna be when Jesus comes back?"
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by paleocon1 View Post
    The total votes cast regarding the amendment are much higher than the total votes cast in the statewide gov and senate primaries for both parties combined. My guess is lots of mail in vote fraud in the urban counties. Lots of ballots voting only on the amendment. Maybe some tinkering with the voting machines. There was fraud.
    (Total KS registered voters by month 2022)
    https://sos.ks.gov/elections/electio...tics-data.html
    Date Rep Dem Lib Unaff Total
    01/2022 852,000 495,760 21,453 546,161 1,915,374
    02/2022 851,036 494,847 21,513 547,815 1,915,211
    03/2022 850,227 494,021 21,544 549,061 1,914,853
    04/2022 850,433 493,590 21,652 551,920 1,917,595
    05/2022 850,464 493,489 21,759 554,044 1,919,756
    06/2022 850,553 493,661 21,891 556,542 1,922,647
    07/2022 851,882 495,574 22,207 560,309 1,929,972

    Amendment Question results:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ts-kansas.html
    No
    538,709 58.9%
    Yes
    376,002 41.1%

    Total reported
    914,711
    The primary turnout in 2020 in KS was 34.2% of 1,861,264 registered voters.

    In the 2022 primary EVERYONE got to vote on the amendment. I'm registered libertarian so the abortion amendment was the only thing on my ballot. So based on the 914,711 total votes counted on that amendment, we know the turnout is 47% (914,711 votes out of 1,929,972).

    I think this shows...

    #1) that there weren't a bunch of new registered voters. There was a less than 1% (0.84%) increase in registered voters from 2021, but it's actually LESS registered voters than there were in KS in 2020 primary.

    #2) Unaffiliated and Libertarian voters actually had a reason to show up for the primaries where normally they wouldn't. In KS, they account for 30% of registered voters.

    #3) While the turnout was significantly higher than normal primaries at 47%, it still wasn't close to the general election turnout in 2020 which was 70.9%.

    Don't really think this is fraud, sorry.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  16. #14
    Kansas is a freak show.

    Always has been.

    John Brown is the epitome of the arrogant, holier than thou, Kansan.

    There is no level of murder that is unacceptable for them to enforce their values on others.

    It is no surprise that Kansas always elects senators with a direct line to the new world order.

  17. #15
    Don't really think this is fraud, sorry.


    Agree

  18. #16
    GOP Senators Say Kansas Abortion Result A 'Wake-Up Call' For Party
    Republican senators were surprised by Tuesday’s huge win for abortion rights in Kansas, of all places, even as they sought to downplay the electoral implications for their party ahead of November’s midterm elections.
    ...
    The vote is likely to make Republicans in swing districts nervous, especially if they’re on the ballot with a similar referendum on abortion, like in California. It’s still unclear, however, whether voters in other states without abortion rights explicitly on the ballot will head to the polls in similar numbers in November.
    ...
    Even polling from Senate Republicans’ campaign arm has suggested the party’s stance on abortion rights isn’t politically ideal: In May, following the leak of a draft of the Supreme Court decision that ended Roe, the National Republican Senatorial Committee released a polling presentation on how their candidates should discuss abortion issues.

    In it, they asked voters to choose between two candidates. The first, a Republican, supports “banning abortions after 15 weeks with exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother or severe fatal abnormality of the baby.” The second, a Democrat, “supports unlimited abortion up until the moment of birth.”

    The poll found 53% of voters would choose the Republican, while just 28% would choose the Democrat.

    The obvious flaw in the survey? There does not appear to be a single member of the Republican caucus who holds the outlined position
    .
    So what happens from here?
    Does the GOP abortion plank eventually become "Ban abortion after 15 weeks (with exceptions)"?
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.



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  20. #17
    One of the few good things that has come out of Kansas...

    ''There were four million people in the American Colonies and we had Jefferson and Franklin. Now we have over 300 million and the two top guys are Trump and Biden. What can you draw from this? Darwin was wrong.'' ~ Mort Sahl

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Sounds like sleight of hand to me.
    Many have pointed out that the ballot measure was worded poorly to the point it may have caused confusion about what Yes and No meant.
    I'm sure every trick in the book was used.
    There should be an investigation to look for fraud, but even if there was no fraud I do not believe this is representative of the people of Kansas. (let alone of the rest of the country)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Many have pointed out that the ballot measure was worded poorly to the point it may have caused confusion about what Yes and No meant.
    I'm sure every trick in the book was used.
    There should be an investigation to look for fraud, but even if there was no fraud I do not believe this is representative of the people of Kansas. (let alone of the rest of the country)
    They do that in our state too. It is annoying because it trips up many people into agreeing for something that generally they wouldn't agree to.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Others have wrote about this, but the idea that humans have changed all that much from the days of Molek worship is unfounded if one simply reads the bible. Viewing the killing of your children as a "sacrament" ("a selfless sacrifice to the Gods for a blessing" in the case of Molek-worship, to the modern "women taking back their bodily autonomy from the misogynistic white patriarchy") is not new. God knows the hearts of men, and the mental gymnastics we are capable of in our quest to make our worst sins not just "ok" through moral relativism, but a "sacrament" in the idol worship of humanism.
    IIRC weren't the the Canaanites' Molech idols made of brass with a fire pit in the belly for the specific purpose of tendering burnt offerings of your firstborn children?

    Meanwhile in the UK just a couple of days ago at the opening ceremony of some sports fest:



    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 08-05-2022 at 04:16 AM.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    IIRC weren't the the Canaanites' Molech idols made of brass with a fire pit in the belly for the specific purpose of tendering burnt offerings of your firstborn children?
    https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status...73982676328449

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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status...73982676328449
    Subconscious remorse for committing infanticide? Seems to me like this person's inner soul recognizes she did something horribly wrong and is begging for forgiveness.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Many have pointed out that the ballot measure was worded poorly to the point it may have caused confusion about what Yes and No meant.
    I'm sure every trick in the book was used.
    Keep in mind that it was written by the supermajority Republican, pro-life Legislature ... who supposedly wanted it to pass (I wonder what subterfuge was involved and who the traitors were)
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 08-05-2022 at 10:25 AM.
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.

  27. #24
    I guess I'm one of the rare people here who doesn't like abortion but also thinks the right should be protected. The main proposals seem to be:
    1. Ban providers from performing abortions - desperate women will just find other ways to reach the same endpoint
    2. Punishment for women - involves extreme intrusions on privacy

    IMO, the abortion fight should happen in public/private discourse (even Ron Paul made the point that you can't legislate morality), rather than trying to get the heavy hand of government to clamp down on it.

    How to reduce abortion:
    Provide support to those who would be contemplating it (there are a lot of Christian organizations which do this)
    Promote adoption / adopt yourself (again, there are private organizations that help with this)
    Promoting education / educating your own children about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Subconscious remorse for committing infanticide? Seems to me like this person's inner soul recognizes she did something horribly wrong and is begging for forgiveness.
    Look at it in the context of a course to assist women (or should I say, pregnant people - it's all so confusing these days) in managing their abortions (for those using mifepristone & misoprostol)
    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAP...696lOR9VOEZC5w
    Website: https://selfguidedabortion.com/
    - Making the choice:
    Unsure? How to decide whether to have an abortion or parent.
    - Before your abortion:
    What to do to prepare for your abortion, and how to create your space.
    - During abortion:
    What to expect during the abortion process, directions on how to use the pills, and resources for managing pain and bleeding.
    - After abortion:
    How to know that the abortion is complete, integrating the experience and resources to support emotional and physical healing.

    Edited to add:
    Something must be awry on the website. I see no mention of eternal damnation or Hellfire.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 08-05-2022 at 10:20 AM.
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Neocon View Post
    I guess I'm one of the rare people here who doesn't like abortion but also thinks the right should be protected. The main proposals seem to be:
    1. Ban providers from performing abortions - desperate women will just find other ways to reach the same endpoint
    2. Punishment for women - involves extreme intrusions on privacy

    IMO, the abortion fight should happen in public/private discourse (even Ron Paul made the point that you can't legislate morality), rather than trying to get the heavy hand of government to clamp down on it.

    How to reduce abortion:
    Provide support to those who would be contemplating it (there are a lot of Christian organizations which do this)
    Promote adoption / adopt yourself (again, there are private organizations that help with this)
    Promoting education / educating your own children about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place
    So I appreciate your comment, but you're already taking the pro-abortion position. If you deem abortion to be the killing of an infant in the womb, then it is murder - and no one has the right to murder. For that reason, it can't be a "right" as you stated. A "right" means you no one can impose their will upon you. Murder is definitely an imposition. And the "heavy hand of government" is often used to prevent or punish murderers.

    However, at the state level, there can be a debate about what constitutes "murder". Not all killing is murder. Decisions like this are best made at the state level and NOT the federal level. Sometimes, libertarians will argue about who gets to decide. Well, we usually don't let the murderer decide - even if they killed a puppy.

    You can counter with the bodily rights of the mother, but except for rape, the mother has already made the choice to invite the baby into her womb. As a pilot, I can't kick my passengers out mid-air if I decide I no longer want them in my plane - my choice to allow them to board came with an obligation to land the plane before I send them on their way.

    At any rate, I just wanted to point that out so you can see how your comments sound to someone who is pro-life.

    I, too, worry about enforcement of abortion laws. It's very hard to enforce abortion laws without the troubles you've mentioned. If a state wants to ban abortions, I think the best way is to make the medical practice illegal in the state so that it's not an option reputable doctors can use. If they do, they can be held criminally liable. Yes, desperate people will still want to commit murder for their own convenience, but that shouldn't be a reason to just allow it. Punishment for the mother should be reserved for egregious cases. I don't consider traveling to another state as egregious.

    Once the practice is banned, then the community should DEFINITELY:
    Provide support for those who get pregnant and are worried about their future. There are enough testimonials out there from parents who weren't ready.
    Provide adoption resources for those who reach the conclusion that they still can't raise a child.
    Provide education that ALL sex is a choice to get pregnant. Provide education that there are ways to reduce your odds, but nothing is 100%. If you engage in sexual behavior, you are making the choice.

    Maybe then, we'll get back to some sort of responsibility instead of this entitlement mentality that has destroyed our culture.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Neocon View Post
    I guess I'm one of the rare people here who doesn't like abortion but also thinks the right should be protected.
    Abortion is a form of homicide. No one has any "right" to commit homicide.

    However, there are many different kinds of homicide - such as murder, negligent homicide, justifiable homicide, etc. - and abortion in general does not obviously and automatically fall into any one of those categories. For example, intentionally killing a pregnant mother might count as a double murder, while terminating a pregnancy that endangers the mother's life could be considered justifiable as self-defense. The former would be legally actionable, while the latter would not (at least, not after the determination of "justifiable" was made). It might even be useful to develop entirely new subcategories for "abortive" homicides.

    In any case, the issue is nowhere near as simplistic as either side tends to make it out to be ("abortion is a right" vs. "abortion is murder"). Reasonable people can differ over particulars - which is why, as CaptUSA suggested in his previous post, the issue is best dealt with at the most local level feasible, rather than at the federal level. The feds should not be permitted to have any say in the matter at all.

    (One thing is certain, though: the fetishization of abortion - like that seen in my previous post - is a deeply disturbing phenomenon.)

  32. #28
    I have always been a moderate abortion-on-demand in the first trimester. That doesn't mean the government should have to pay for it. Only a small part of the Republican base is the Evangelical holy rollers on abortion. Most care about inflation, beating back toxic wokeness, and staying out of Neocon wars.

  33. #29
    Kansas’ elections director says the state will go along with a request for a hand recount of votes from every county after last week’s decisive statewide vote affirming abortion rights, even though there was a 165,000-vote difference and a recount won’t change the result.

    Melissa Leavitt, of Colby in far western Kansas, requested the recount and declined to comment to reporters Friday evening, citing work obligations. But she said on an online site raising funds for a recount that she had “seen data” about the election.

    Also seeking a recount is state Sen. Caryn Tyson, who is trailing state Rep. Steven Johnson in the Republican primary for state treasurer by about 400 votes out of nearly 434,000 cast. She is asking for a hand recount in about half the state’s 105 counties.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/kansas-recoun...233605552.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Melissa Leavitt, of Colby in far western Kansas, requested the recount and declined to comment to reporters Friday evening, citing work obligations. But she said on an online site raising funds for a recount that she had “seen data” about the election.
    But she needs money to cover the cost of the recount
    While a recount has been approved, however, it cannot go ahead until Leavitt is able to present a bond to cover the cost of the recount, roughly estimated to be worth $200,000. So far, Leavitt has raised less than $8,000.
    Time for a money bomb?
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.

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