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Thread: Forward-A Third Political Party

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
    If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.
    So then, what?

    Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

    I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

    We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So then, what?

    Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

    I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

    We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.
    The Ron Paul method is the best method.

    The John Birch Society is a grassroots education and action organization to return the Republic to the principles found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. -- Join the Fight!



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinLiberty View Post
    The Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power in the elections. They are not a threat to anyone. [...]
    In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
    If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.
    Why?

    If the MC/LP is so ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant that even increasing it by a factor of 10 (i.e., by an entire order of magnitude) would still leave it as ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant as before, then what can it possibly matter whether those who support it ever "learn to swallow" or "see [...] and understand" the "hard truth" that "the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone"?

    Either the number of such people is "many measures below independent party numbers", or it is not. If it is not, then the proposition that they have "virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone" is false. But if it is, then there is no reason for you to care, one way or the other, about whether they "swallow" that "hard truth" or not.

    IOW: If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).
    As we learn every time we try to get Republicans to nominate a conservative in a primary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So then, what?

    Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

    I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

    We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.
    No, I don't think voting Trump is the whole answer, either.

    Politics is power. The LP has none. Why divest time, money, and resources to the LP at this point in time? I'm tired of seeing that attempted as it's a complete waste of time. The Mises Caucus people (God bless them, I do wish them the best) are turning the LP into their fan club now. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. It beats what was going on. But even with the MC in charge... THE LP HAS NO POWER. The LP can't do jack squat with politics. They'd be better off trying to influence Republicans like Ron Paul wanted us to do but we failed to follow up on it in a meaningful way. There was one solid attempt with the TEA Parties (and those were co-opted) and after that, everyone took their ball and went home. Meanwhile, neocons and globalists got in nice and cozy with both the GOP and Dems.

    It seems like these exact conversations pop up weekly or monthly on this forum and within liberty/libertarian circles. It's so dang old and I'm even typing all of this out with a look of disgust on my face (not directed at you, by the way) because I know most of our methods and plans are futile in this system. But, I do think tides can be turned or delayed with enough political force at certain levels. We've seen it happen.

    I think I'm just going to try and influence locally as much as possible and vote for the most liberty-oriented candidates on the ballots at local and state levels. Federal level elections are pretty much lost for our types. There's been some success with Amash, Massie, and Rand, but we haven't had much else since them.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Why?

    If the MC/LP is so ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant that even increasing it by a factor of 10 (i.e., by an entire order of magnitude) would still leave it as ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant as before, then what can it possibly matter whether those who support it ever "learn to swallow" or "see [...] and understand" the "hard truth" that "the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone"?

    Either the number of such people is "many measures below independent party numbers", or it is not. If it is not, then the proposition that they have "virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone" is false. But if it is, then there is no reason for you to care, one way or the other, about whether they "swallow" that "hard truth" or not.

    IOW: If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).
    Because I hate seeing people who are just like me spin their tires into something that won't get them anywhere (that irony isn't lost on me with this GOP strategy either... I get it). That's all. If I can get 5 libertarians to reconsider spending their time and effort into the LP/MC and instead into the GOP (which dominates where I live, so there's much more strategic value there), then I'll call that a success.

    But, in truth, the LP and MC will turn into another fan club, issue fancy press releases that get all 10,000 people excited, and the GOP and Dems will still have the floor.

    Edit: I know it's not going to be any use debating with you so please keep doing your thing and I'll do mine. The LP is not the answer. The LP will never be popular. Liberty is not popular. Politics is power and libertarians (as a whole) don't want to lord over others. Do you see that contradiction?
    Last edited by Okie RP fan; 07-29-2022 at 01:38 PM.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    The LP will never be popular. Liberty is not popular. Politics is power and libertarians (as a whole) don't want to lord over others. Do you see that contradiction?


    Yes, yes. The contradiction is obvious. That didn't keep Coolidge out of the White House.

    If we can finally make people see what it takes to clear out the corruption, then we will need to have an organization in place that will help us get candidates on the ballot for federal office. If it happens at all, it'll happen quickly.

    In hopes of that, we can either popularize the LP or clean out the GOP. Both are tall orders. Whether one will serve us better depends on a number of things, such as whether something happens to put the one name on everyone's lips, or whether the other finally pisses people off.

    But neither party is going to serve our needs immediately or easily. One doesn't have the floor space. One does, but it's full of asbestos.

    After decades of team player, don't throw your vote away, safety in numbers rhetoric, we wind up with a lot of screaming about we need help here, we need numbers there. I'm not sure any of it is coming from the people actually burrowed into these parties and doing the work. And I'm not sure that help will help all that much yet. I don't see such a disadvantage to working on both projects on a Plan A/Plan B basis that we need to spend all day screaming at each other over it.

    And to tell you the truth, watching the shills be shrill leads me to believe the Establishment considers us in the GOP taking long rides on the short bus less of a threat than the LP. The GOP is chock full of people with high hopes of someday getting a piece of the corruption. They provide a lot of resistance. At least we know we can clean the LP out from top to bottom.

    Every consideration beyond that is just as irrelevant as which football team you're a fan of.

    If insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, both plans are insane. Been there, done both. But as the powers that be crank up the suck, the variables are changing. There are a lot of variables, and I don't know how to tell which plan happenstance and fortune will favor. All I know is, when it comes to people, you are right that the GOP has the quantity and OB is right that the LP gas the quality.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-29-2022 at 03:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  10. #38
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 10-13-2022 at 04:05 PM. Reason: replaced tweet with image

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/ScottHech/status...64169243648000
    Yang keeps saying he is for the “common sense, consensus, majority” view. That in itself is a contradiction. When the “majority” is 50%+1, you are dictating to exactly half the population. Even worse when it’s just a plurality, which the DNC seems to like.

    “Consensus” is buy-in and agreement from everyone, or nearly everyone.

    There probably is a middle ground on abortion (Roe v, Wade), where most average people would agree, but the vocal extremes would not stand for that as a position. Thus, there would not be consensus.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #40
    Looks like Yang is hoping to recruit Cheney to the Forward Party, given how much he's kissing her ass prior to her imminent primary loss[1]:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...24756603699200




    [1] Barring some kind of miracle - or election "fortification".



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Looks like Yang is hoping to recruit Cheney to the Forward Party, given how much he's kissing her ass prior to her imminent primary loss[1]:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...24756603699200




    [1] Barring some kind of miracle - or election "fortification".
    https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/st...45662784839685

  15. #42

  16. #43
    It's red! It's blue! It's green! It's full of lizard people! It's...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  17. #44
    Yeah it's pretty bad when the Forward Party makes even Jim Acosta look like a hard-hitting journalist.



    I can't stand Jim but "If someone wants a party with no clear policy positions, you're it." made me burst out laughing.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 08-18-2022 at 09:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The Forward Party - Part Of The Problem 895
    On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave and Robbie take a look at the Forward Party publicly stated policies, and the effectiveness of Andrew Yang as a candidate. This Episode Was Recorded On 8.17.22
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2LGRdjEK24
    //

  19. #46
    Andrew Yang is now officially a parody of himself:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...40559055724548

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    //
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 10-13-2022 at 04:09 PM.

  21. #48



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    cant wait to see the platform
    I still haven't seen one. But it's probably a new trend for political parties - the Republicans don't have one either.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    I still haven't seen one. But it's probably a new trend for political parties - the Republicans don't have one either.
    https://www.forwardparty.com/platform

    https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward

    We’re not just a new party, we’re a new kind of party.
    The Forward Party stands for doing, not dividing. That means rejecting political extremes and working together to take real action on every important issue for the unrepresented majority in American politics. We're not building a copy of the current parties, which are dragging our country backwards. We're moving American politics forward, with a party focused on innovative, collaborative, and common-sense solutions that work for the majority.

    HOW WE’RE DIFFERENT

    Diverse Thinking Isn't Just Welcome, It's Required
    The Forward Party will welcome new ideas and fearless conversations around the issues of the day. We won’t silence debate or refuse to adapt to the modern world.
    Bottom-Up, Not Top Down
    The Forward Party will empower leaders to find solutions that work in their communities. We won’t dictate a rigid, top down policy platform and expect it to work for all Americans.
    Come as you are — Left, Right, or Center
    The Forward Party will create a political home for everyone willing to set aside the partisan extremes and find practical ways to make this country better. We won’t be checking IDs to see if people are Democrats, Republicans, or Independents.
    More Listening, Less Talking
    The Forward Party will ask you what we can do for your community. We will not ask what your community can do for us.
    Work Together, Not Against
    The Forward Party will strive for collaborative solutions, make sure they work, and try something else if they don’t. We won’t ignore problems so that we can use them to drive wedges between Americans; nothing gets done when opposing views are treated like enemy positions.
    Grace and Tolerance
    The Forward Party will approach each other with grace and tolerance, finding ways to pick people back up rather than knock them down. We won’t cancel people or cast them out of the party for not falling in line.

    If this sounds like the future you want to build for America, consider donating today!

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  25. #51
    America needs a third party that is outside of the establishment thinking.

    I would question anyone that has a Wef record on their history..

  26. #52
    The Forward Party will empower leaders to find solutions that work in their communities. We won’t dictate a rigid, top down policy platform and expect it to work for all Americans.
    Am I the only one who sees the problem here?
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Am I the only one who sees the problem here?
    Nope. I see the problem crystal clear.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  28. #54
    The Forward Party will empower leaders


    that pretty much says it all
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  29. #55
    Forward!!

    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  30. #56



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I can't stand Jim but "If someone wants a party with no clear policy positions, you're it." made me burst out laughing.
    We found a firm position. You can't have peace in your time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    We found a firm position. You can't have peace in your time.
    War IS Peace, comrade.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  34. #59
    Well, what Ron said in that Larry McDonald speech above is pertinent: run in the party you think you can win.

    For some people, that may be the LP. But, that'll definitely be a local thing for you and your best chances will be in smaller towns in rural America.

    For everyone else, take your pick but Dems and GOP run the show. I sometimes think we need to go back to the 2007-2012 Ron Paul strategy: take over the local GOPs... We have to admit there were some successes there.

    If you want the more cynical approach: none of this really matters. The Doomsday clock is ticking away no matter what.

    Or a Christian approach: don't trouble yourself with any of this nonsense. Our kingdom is not of this world and we only have one Lord.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Well, what Ron said in that Larry McDonald speech above is pertinent: run in the party you think you can win.
    ...
    Yep. Ron Paul understands.

    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinLiberty View Post
    Ron Paul was elected as a Republican, however.

    "Run in the party you think you can WIN because political parties are irrelevant."

    The John Birch Society is a grassroots education and action organization to return the Republic to the principles found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. -- Join the Fight!

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