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Thread: Forward-A Third Political Party

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
    If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.
    So then, what?

    Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

    I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

    We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.
    "Pity we didn't nominate Rand Paul--a man who actually has the Alpha Cojones to put his life on the line, but unfortunately lacks the bad taste necessary to brag about them."-- acptulsa



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So then, what?

    Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

    I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

    We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.
    The Ron Paul method is the best method.

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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinLiberty View Post
    The Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power in the elections. They are not a threat to anyone. [...]
    In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
    If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.
    Why?

    If the MC/LP is so ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant that even increasing it by a factor of 10 (i.e., by an entire order of magnitude) would still leave it as ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant as before, then what can it possibly matter whether those who support it ever "learn to swallow" or "see [...] and understand" the "hard truth" that "the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone"?

    Either the number of such people is "many measures below independent party numbers", or it is not. If it is not, then the proposition that they have "virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone" is false. But if it is, then there is no reason for you to care, one way or the other, about whether they "swallow" that "hard truth" or not.

    IOW: If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).
    As we learn every time we try to get Republicans to nominate a conservative in a primary.
    "Pity we didn't nominate Rand Paul--a man who actually has the Alpha Cojones to put his life on the line, but unfortunately lacks the bad taste necessary to brag about them."-- acptulsa

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So then, what?

    Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

    I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

    We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.
    No, I don't think voting Trump is the whole answer, either.

    Politics is power. The LP has none. Why divest time, money, and resources to the LP at this point in time? I'm tired of seeing that attempted as it's a complete waste of time. The Mises Caucus people (God bless them, I do wish them the best) are turning the LP into their fan club now. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. It beats what was going on. But even with the MC in charge... THE LP HAS NO POWER. The LP can't do jack squat with politics. They'd be better off trying to influence Republicans like Ron Paul wanted us to do but we failed to follow up on it in a meaningful way. There was one solid attempt with the TEA Parties (and those were co-opted) and after that, everyone took their ball and went home. Meanwhile, neocons and globalists got in nice and cozy with both the GOP and Dems.

    It seems like these exact conversations pop up weekly or monthly on this forum and within liberty/libertarian circles. It's so dang old and I'm even typing all of this out with a look of disgust on my face (not directed at you, by the way) because I know most of our methods and plans are futile in this system. But, I do think tides can be turned or delayed with enough political force at certain levels. We've seen it happen.

    I think I'm just going to try and influence locally as much as possible and vote for the most liberty-oriented candidates on the ballots at local and state levels. Federal level elections are pretty much lost for our types. There's been some success with Amash, Massie, and Rand, but we haven't had much else since them.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Why?

    If the MC/LP is so ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant that even increasing it by a factor of 10 (i.e., by an entire order of magnitude) would still leave it as ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant as before, then what can it possibly matter whether those who support it ever "learn to swallow" or "see [...] and understand" the "hard truth" that "the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone"?

    Either the number of such people is "many measures below independent party numbers", or it is not. If it is not, then the proposition that they have "virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone" is false. But if it is, then there is no reason for you to care, one way or the other, about whether they "swallow" that "hard truth" or not.

    IOW: If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).
    Because I hate seeing people who are just like me spin their tires into something that won't get them anywhere (that irony isn't lost on me with this GOP strategy either... I get it). That's all. If I can get 5 libertarians to reconsider spending their time and effort into the LP/MC and instead into the GOP (which dominates where I live, so there's much more strategic value there), then I'll call that a success.

    But, in truth, the LP and MC will turn into another fan club, issue fancy press releases that get all 10,000 people excited, and the GOP and Dems will still have the floor.

    Edit: I know it's not going to be any use debating with you so please keep doing your thing and I'll do mine. The LP is not the answer. The LP will never be popular. Liberty is not popular. Politics is power and libertarians (as a whole) don't want to lord over others. Do you see that contradiction?
    Last edited by Okie RP fan; 07-29-2022 at 01:38 PM.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    The LP will never be popular. Liberty is not popular. Politics is power and libertarians (as a whole) don't want to lord over others. Do you see that contradiction?


    Yes, yes. The contradiction is obvious. That didn't keep Coolidge out of the White House.

    If we can finally make people see what it takes to clear out the corruption, then we will need to have an organization in place that will help us get candidates on the ballot for federal office. If it happens at all, it'll happen quickly.

    In hopes of that, we can either popularize the LP or clean out the GOP. Both are tall orders. Whether one will serve us better depends on a number of things, such as whether something happens to put the one name on everyone's lips, or whether the other finally pisses people off.

    But neither party is going to serve our needs immediately or easily. One doesn't have the floor space. One does, but it's full of asbestos.

    After decades of team player, don't throw your vote away, safety in numbers rhetoric, we wind up with a lot of screaming about we need help here, we need numbers there. I'm not sure any of it is coming from the people actually burrowed into these parties and doing the work. And I'm not sure that help will help all that much yet. I don't see such a disadvantage to working on both projects on a Plan A/Plan B basis that we need to spend all day screaming at each other over it.

    And to tell you the truth, watching the shills be shrill leads me to believe the Establishment considers us in the GOP taking long rides on the short bus less of a threat than the LP. The GOP is chock full of people with high hopes of someday getting a piece of the corruption. They provide a lot of resistance. At least we know we can clean the LP out from top to bottom.

    Every consideration beyond that is just as irrelevant as which football team you're a fan of.

    If insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, both plans are insane. Been there, done both. But as the powers that be crank up the suck, the variables are changing. There are a lot of variables, and I don't know how to tell which plan happenstance and fortune will favor. All I know is, when it comes to people, you are right that the GOP has the quantity and OB is right that the LP gas the quality.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-29-2022 at 03:28 PM.
    "Pity we didn't nominate Rand Paul--a man who actually has the Alpha Cojones to put his life on the line, but unfortunately lacks the bad taste necessary to brag about them."-- acptulsa

  10. #38

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/ScottHech/status...64169243648000
    Yang keeps saying he is for the “common sense, consensus, majority” view. That in itself is a contradiction. When the “majority” is 50%+1, you are dictating to exactly half the population. Even worse when it’s just a plurality, which the DNC seems to like.

    “Consensus” is buy-in and agreement from everyone, or nearly everyone.

    There probably is a middle ground on abortion (Roe v, Wade), where most average people would agree, but the vocal extremes would not stand for that as a position. Thus, there would not be consensus.
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  12. #40
    Looks like Yang is hoping to recruit Cheney to the Forward Party, given how much he's kissing her ass prior to her imminent primary loss[1]:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...24756603699200




    [1] Barring some kind of miracle - or election "fortification".



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Looks like Yang is hoping to recruit Cheney to the Forward Party, given how much he's kissing her ass prior to her imminent primary loss[1]:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...24756603699200




    [1] Barring some kind of miracle - or election "fortification".
    https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/st...45662784839685

  15. #42

  16. #43
    It's red! It's blue! It's green! It's full of lizard people! It's...

    "Pity we didn't nominate Rand Paul--a man who actually has the Alpha Cojones to put his life on the line, but unfortunately lacks the bad taste necessary to brag about them."-- acptulsa

  17. #44
    Yeah it's pretty bad when the Forward Party makes even Jim Acosta look like a hard-hitting journalist.



    I can't stand Jim but "If someone wants a party with no clear policy positions, you're it." made me burst out laughing.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 08-18-2022 at 09:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

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  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The Forward Party - Part Of The Problem 895
    On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave and Robbie take a look at the Forward Party publicly stated policies, and the effectiveness of Andrew Yang as a candidate. This Episode Was Recorded On 8.17.22
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2LGRdjEK24
    //

  19. #46

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