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Thread: Armed Citizen Kills Shooter in Indiana Mall, Preventing Greater Tragedy

  1. #1

    Armed Citizen Kills Shooter in Indiana Mall, Preventing Greater Tragedy

    Armed Citizen Kills Shooter in Indiana Mall, Preventing Greater Tragedy

    The New American
    July 18, 2022


    A good guy with a gun kept a mass shooting at an Indiana shopping mall from claiming vastly more than the three lives — plus that of the shooter — that it took.

    Around 6 p.m. Sunday, a gunman, later identified as 20-year-old Jonathan Sapirman, stepped into the food court at the Greenwood Park Mall and opened fire with a long rifle. Sapirman lived near the mall in Greenwood, a suburb of Indianapolis.

    Sapirman managed to kill three people and injure two others before another young man whipped out his legally owned gun and shot Sapirman dead, ending his shooting spree.

    In a Monday press conference, Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison said that Sapirman had been in the mall restroom for over an hour before he began shooting, reported WRTV. Ison added that “it took about two minutes for the suspect to leave the bathroom and start shooting before he was shot by the armed civilian.”

    While the loss of even one life, let alone three (and Sapirman’s), is a tragedy, “police said the toll could have been higher if not for the actions of [the] armed civilian,” WRTV wrote.

    “The real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the shooter almost as soon as it began,” said Ison.

    That citizen, later identified as 22-year-old Elisjsha Dicken of Seymour, Indiana, “authorized police to release his name but is asking for privacy as he still processes what happened,” WRTV reported elsewhere.

    When Sapirman’s shooting spree commenced, “panicked mall goers ran for cover,” recounted WRTV. “Many sought shelter alongside employees in various stores and shops walled off from the main mall by rolling metal gates.”

    Chris Roy, assistant manager of the mall’s Vans store, told the Indianapolis Star that he was just about to close for the day when he saw people running away from the food court.


    “So, I jumped over the counter, locked the door, gathered my associates and other managers at the back door,” said Roy, 30.

    They hadn’t heard gunshots, but Roy said they saw enough people running to not ask questions. Through the back door they huddled in an interior hallway with about 40 or 50 other people — mostly customers from other stores, Roy said. That hallway didn’t have an exterior exit, so they waited for police to come clear them, he said. Roy and another man tried to keep everyone calm, but occasional footsteps on the other side of one of the connecting doors sent panic through the group.

    “We just instructed everybody to keep quiet,” he said.

    After 10 or 15 minutes, police cleared them from the hallway and escorted them out of the mall.


    Detectives found a backpack in the mall bathroom, but it was found to be harmless.

    Police are still searching for a motive in the case. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is trying to recover data from Sapirman’s cellphone, which agents found in a mall toilet, and laptop, which was in an oven at his home, where Sapirman was trying to destroy it, having placed butane in the oven and turned it on.

    Ison said Sapirman “had no known mental health problems,” but, “as a juvenile, he had some previous incidents with the Greenwood Police Department,” noted WRTV. The latter, however, did not prevent him from legally obtaining the weapons he took into the mall.

    Gun-control advocates, naturally, took the occasion to blame firearms for the incident and call for stricter gun laws. Representative Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.), who once threatened to nuke Americans who wouldn’t give up their guns, decried that “too many families … again lost a loved one because we are a country of unrestricted weaponry.”

    Others, though, recognized that humans are responsible for their actions and that those who employ guns to protect lives should be honored.

    “This senseless act in Greenwood is devastating. Hoosiers across the state are no doubt upset but also mobilized in care & prayer for their fellow Hoosiers,” tweeted Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita. “The bravery of the armed individual who took action to stop the shooter undoubtedly saved lives, and for that I and many others are grateful.”
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  3. #2
    Give that kid a medal of honor.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  4. #3
    I'd like to just commend the brave Officers who arrived on the scene that day, and courageously collected testimony from the witnesses and documented what they heard.

    Heroes, every one of them.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  5. #4
    40 yards out!
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  6. #5
    “The real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the shooter almost as soon as it began,” said Ison.

    That citizen, later identified as 22-year-old Elisjsha Dicken of Seymour, Indiana, “authorized police to release his name but is asking for privacy as he still processes what happened,” WRTV reported elsewhere.
    A real hero. Calm head, good shooting.

    Apparently it was against mall policy, as it was a “gun-free zone”. Maybe the local DA can come up with some charges against the hero.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    https://www.wishtv.com/news/crime-wa...o-saved-lives/

    The chief said Dicken was carrying a gun legally under the “constitutional carry” law.

    Isom said he watched the surveillance video, which will not be released because of its graphic content, and called Dicken’s actions “nothing short of heroic.”

    “He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun. It was very proficient in that, very tactically sound, and, as he moved to close in on the suspect, he was also motioning for people to exit behind him. He has, to our knowledge, no police training and no military background,” the police chief said.
    If he had police training, he would have known to hold back, call for backup, asked for permission to engage, waited for the SWAT team, and worried about potential liability, lawsuits, interrogations, tedious reports, and protests.

    Greenwood Park Mall, which is expected to reopen Tuesday, lists “no firearms or illegal weapons” in its Code of Conduct. But in a statement posted on Facebook on Monday, the mall says, “We grieve for the victims of yesterday’s horrific tragedy at Greenwood Park Mall. Violence has no place in this or any other community. We are grateful for the strong response of the first responders, including the heroic actions of the Good Samaritan who stopped the suspect.”
    The Biden Administration may want to pursue charges and a prosecution if the local authorities won’t. Can’t have citizens carry guns into private businesses with rules against it. They will probably want to make an example out of him.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    fk the "left" ( when are they gonna fkn leave?)

    this guy is the definition of hero
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  9. #8
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·



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  11. #9
    https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/st...47827560419328


    Yes, 400:

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Though to be fair, apparently at least one of them did try:

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Okay, if this is true, then Punisher-logo-on-the-phone cop gets a pass:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dor-Ramos.html

  12. #10

    His actions were nothing short of heroic.

    Armed bystander hailed as hero

    https://www.wthr.com/article/news/lo...9-7de4735fbe37

    At 5:57 p.m., Elisjsha Dicken, an armed bystander, fired on Sapirman. Dicken fired 10 rounds hitting Sapirman as Sapirman tried to retreat into the bathroom but collapsed and died.

    Dicken had no police training or military background, according to police. He was carrying under the new "Constitutional Carry" law and did not have a permit. Police said Dicken learned to shoot from his grandfather and that he had no military or police training.

    "His actions were nothing short of heroic. He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun. Was very proficient in that, was tactically sound and as he moved to close in on the suspect, he was also motioning for people to exit behind him," (Chief of Police) Ison said about Dicken's actions. "Many people would have died last night if not for a responsible armed citizen that took action very quickly within the first two minutes of this shooting."

    Dicken has not yet spoken with the media about the shooting. However, his lawyer Guy A. Relford released a statement on Monday that said Dicken is waiting to speak about the shooting to respect the lives lost and the police's investigation.

    The full statement can be read here:

    "I am proud to serve as Eli Dicken's attorney and spokesperson. He is a true American hero who saved countless lives during a horrific event that could have been so much worse if not for Eli's courage, preparedness and willingness to protect others. Because we want to respect the ongoing criminal investigation by the Greenwood Police Department and take time to honor the three innocent lives lost, we won't be making any substantive comments on Sunday's events until after the authorities' investigation is closed. In the interim, we ask that you respect the privacy of Eli and his family."
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  13. #11
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    //
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  15. #13
    There is for un-people...were STILL not allowed...anything
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    There is for un-people...were STILL not allowed...anything
    Yeah if you're stuck like Pete and find yourself a "prohibited person", I understand.

    Doing everything I possibly can to rectify that.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  17. #15
    thank you

    and thank tom massie too

    why not!
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  18. #16
    The left is compaining that we shouldn't have to depend on 22 year olds with guns to stop violence.

    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch



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  20. #17
    Here, I think this guy should get a parade in his honor. Splash his name all over papers, TV's and the web. Make sure he gets endorsements for whatever he wants to do in life.

    And make sure everyone knows it.

    Then, the criminals will have to think twice knowing that if a civilian stops them, that civilian will be rewarded with money and high praise. That'll encourage everyone to carry just in case some idiot wants to risk it.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    And, I repeat:

    "An armed society is a polite society."
    -Robert A. Heinlein-
    There is no spoon.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    The left is compaining that we shouldn't have to depend on 22 year olds with guns to stop violence.

    Ask the dimwits what the average age of a US soldier or Marine is.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  23. #20
    Predictable response from the gun prohibitionists...


    https://www.twitter.com/GunOwners/st...87859609665537

    Note that she said the hero “illegally” brought a gun to the mall.


    https://www.twitter.com/KrisB_Brown/...14362073042944
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ask the dimwits what the average age of a US soldier or Marine is.
    The Marine Corps trusted me with a rifle when I was 18. I was very responsible at that age. Now in my 50s, I am not to be trusted for some reason.
    ...

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ask the dimwits what the average age of a US soldier or Marine is.
    When the BoR was signed in, local militias were 14 years of age & up.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    The Marine Corps trusted me with a rifle when I was 18. I was very responsible at that age. Now in my 50s, I am not to be trusted for some reason.
    I had an M-16 at 17.. Turned 18 after I "Turned Blue". (1975)
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Predictable response from the gun prohibitionists...


    https://www.twitter.com/GunOwners/st...87859609665537
    Why do leftists insist on calling it a "loaded" gun? What other kind of gun is there?

    What kind of moron would bring a "unloaded" gun to a mall
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  29. #25


    The US is actually pretty safe.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post


    The US is actually pretty safe.
    I sure can't be arsed to check, but I'd figure if you take out the black on black violence, US is probably in the top 5 safest countries
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  31. #27

  32. #28

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    8 for 10 at 40 yards in 15+ seconds

    https://twitter.com/CourtSpinelliTV/...88016871378944
    I don't want to argue with these people anymore.

    I don't want to debate these people anymore.

    I don't want to try and convince these people anymore.

    I do NOT want to share a country with people that think like this anymore.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I sure can't be arsed to check, but I'd figure if you take out the black on black violence, US is probably in the top 5 safest countries
    Well below homicide rates where guns are completely banned, such as Mexico or Jamacia or BVI or Nigeria or Belize.

    We are in 59th place with 6.3 intentional homicides per 100,000 people (from all sources, not just guns).

    US Virgin Islands is currently number 1, where almost all guns of all types are banned for all purposes.

    Jamaica is number two, and all guns are banned for any practical purposes, with special "Star Chamber" gun courts that can sentence you to life in prison for illegal possession of a single round.

    If you were to remove black intentional homicides, which account for over 50 percent of the 20820 homicides committed in 2020, we'd have a rate comparable to Lichtenstein or Gibraltar or New Zealand.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 07-20-2022 at 05:56 PM.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

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