Live At Peace With All Men... Until You Can't

[pcosmar]

I wasn’t asking what you think his reason was for whipping them. I asked you what your reason is for believing he whipped people. The text doesn’t say he did that.

The Text said He made a Whip and Drove them out.

What is your Problem with Simple Language.. Search several Translations They are the same.

[Invisible Man]

The Text said He made a Whip and Drove them out.

What is your Problem with Simple Language.. Search several Translations They are the same.

My problem is not with the simple language of what it says. But notice that in its simple language the text says nothing about Jesus whipping any people.

[Invisible Man]

Jesus said turn the other cheek. You do realize that He wasn't saying, let someone murder you, right?

Did Jesus himself not let people murder him?

Was he wrong to do that?

[Invisible Man]

What was the other reason you think he took the persecution he did?

I won't say that there was only one. But clearly, according to his own words, and according to the words of the apostles, it was to provide his followers with an example to follow.

In post #23 you said you agreed with this. Have you changed your mind about that?

[acptulsa]

Why are you acting like you're participating in a conversation? You keep asking questions, but you don't answer any. I prefer to converse with people who have more respect than that.

[donnay]

I won't say that there was only one. But clearly, according to his own words, and according to the words of the apostles, it was to provide his followers with an example to follow.

In post #23 you said you agreed with this. Have you changed your mind about that?

There are many examples to follow Jesus in God's WORD. However, you have to put them in context, is it; symbolic, tradition of men, statutes, and the ordinances, or the law... Can you walk on water? Can you feed five thousand people with five fishes and two loaves of bread? Can you heal a person, from a disease, with just a touch? Can you take a legion of demons, in a person, and transfer them into swine?

[Invisible Man]

There are many examples to follow Jesus in God's WORD.

One of those many examples, is his death on the cross, when he sat there and took it, rather than decking them. In fact, that is the single most important thing that he did as an example. This was not some unique situation just for him where he responded to his persecutors in a way that he wouldn't want his followers to follow.

[Invisible Man]

Why are you acting like you're participating in a conversation? You keep asking questions, but you don't answer any. I prefer to converse with people who have more respect than that.

A lot of my questions are rhetorical.

In case it wasn't clear, yes, Jesus did let people murder him. Yes, he chose to do that voluntarily. Yes, this was the right choice. And yes, he did it as an example for his disciples to follow, even if it meant the same result.

And all this is true because in the cross he conquered death. He rose again, and promises the same to those who are united with him by faith. Just as he thought little of that death, so can we. When he died, his enemies thought they won and he lost, but they were wrong. It was the other way around. And every time one of his disciples follows him in that, the same thing happens again. They win, and their enemies lose.

[donnay]

One of those many examples, is his death on the cross, when he sat there and took it, rather than decking them. In fact, that is the single most important thing that he did as an example. This was not some unique situation just for him where he responded to his persecutors in a way that he wouldn't want his followers to follow.

It was to allow the crucifixion. You do not think he had the power to have an army of angels come down and free him? Seriously, you need to think things through.

How many of Jesus' disciples were crucified?

[Invisible Man]

It was to allow the crucifixion. You do not think he had the power to have an army of angels come down and free him? Seriously, you need to think things through.

He absolutely did have that power. And he chose not to use it. To put it in the terms you used earlier, he could have decked them. But instead, he sat there and took it. And in so doing, according to him, and according to the apostles, he provided an example for Christians to follow.

Earlier you said you agreed with this. Do you no longer agree?

How many of Jesus' disciples were crucified?

We don't know. There is a legend about Peter dying by crucifixion that does have some historical merit. And regardless of their methods of death, we have good historical evidence that they were routinely persecuted, and for many of them to the point of death.

[donnay]

He absolutely did have that power. And he chose not to use it. To put it in the terms you used earlier, he could have decked them. But instead, he sat there and took it. And in so doing, according to him, and according to the apostles, he provided an example for Christians to follow.

Earlier you said you agreed with this. Do you no longer agree?

I agreed only to that point of being an example. As I said, there are plenty of examples to go by. My point is that he took it because he had a purpose for not resisting. Herod and Pilate found no fault with Jesus and felt he should not be crucified.

We don't know. There is a legend about Peter dying by crucifixion that does have some historical merit. And regardless of their methods of death, we have good historical evidence that they were routinely persecuted, and for many of them to the point of death.

My point is they followed Jesus by example, but the methods of their deaths were different and many lived a long time after Jesus' death.

[Invisible Man]

I agreed only to that point of being an example. As I said, there are plenty of examples to go by. My point is that he took it because he had a purpose for not resisting. Herod and Pilate found no fault with Jesus and felt he should not be crucified.

And when you say it is an example, that means that his followers are supposed to respond to their persecutors the same way, that is to sit and take it, rather than deck them. Right? That is what it means for it to be an example. Is it not? And that is precisely the way in which Jesus and the apostles declared the cross to be an example. Is it not?

[pcosmar]

My problem is not with the simple language of what it says. But notice that in its simple language the text says nothing about Jesus whipping any people.

Made a Whip and Drove them out.. it is implied.
ether he struck or just threatened them with whipping. He effectively Drove Them OUT.

Over turning tables is not Passive..

There is a time for every purpose under Heaven.
a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

[pcosmar]

Is it not?

I have heard this argument before
So ,,by your concept,,I should have passively allowed myself to be Sodomized?

Or had property stolen from me,,?? without resistance?

I Believe that God Strengthened my Hand,, in times when that was needed.
I did not kill anyone,,nor was I killed.. 3 years on the Main Yard,,learning to walk in Peace with all men.

and since..

[donnay]

And when you say it is an example, that means that his followers are supposed to respond to their persecutors the same way, that is to sit and take it, rather than deck them. Right? That is what it means for it to be an example. Is it not? And that is precisely the way in which Jesus and the apostles declared the cross to be an example. Is it not?

And again, he was an example to others to have supernatural powers. And, again, can you walk on water? Can you feed five thousand with five fishes and two loaves of bread? Can you heal a diseased person with a simple touch? Those are all examples, what you need to discern is, Jesus took the persecution, at the time, because he knew he had to sacrifice his life to defeat Death (which is Satan).

What do you make of Jesus in Revelations when he comes on a white war horse and a rod of iron to fight Satan?

Revelation 19:11-16
King James Version

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.