Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 68

Thread: Rand Paul "neutral" on admitting Sweden and Finland to NATO

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Rand Paul "neutral" on admitting Sweden and Finland to NATO

    Rand Paul

    The U.S. Senate will likely vote this summer on admitting Sweden and Finland to NATO. Prior to Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, I have been an automatic “no” on expanding NATO to Russia’s borders. I have seen such expansion as needless provocation.

    But Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has changed the world and a realistic view of foreign policy changes as the world does. In this new world, I am less adamant about preventing NATO’s expansion with Sweden and Finland.

    More at: https://www.theamericanconservative....n-and-finland/

    Ron must be so proud.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    I'm a little disappointed in Rand Paul for not opposing NATO, but he did throw in a key phrase that's important.

    ...

    But Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has changed the world and a realistic view of foreign policy changes as the world does. In this new world, I am less adamant about preventing NATO’s expansion with Sweden and Finland.

    In the coming days I will propose conditions to the treaty stating that Article 5 does not supersede the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war before engaging in hostilities, and that the U.S. will not bear any costs caused by the addition of Sweden and Finland to NATO.

    ...

    SOURCE:
    The American Conservative Op-Ed: Dr. Rand Paul: Should NATO Admit Sweden and Finland?
    https://www.paul.senate.gov/american...en-and-finland
    The John Birch Society is a grassroots education and action organization to return the Republic to the principles found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. -- Join the Fight!

    Boycott Youtube! Create a Rumble Account.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinLiberty View Post
    I'm a little disappointed in Rand Paul for not opposing NATO, but he did throw in a key phrase that's important.

    ...

    But Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has changed the world and a realistic view of foreign policy changes as the world does. In this new world, I am less adamant about preventing NATO’s expansion with Sweden and Finland.

    In the coming days I will propose conditions to the treaty stating that Article 5 does not supersede the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war before engaging in hostilities, and that the U.S. will not bear any costs caused by the addition of Sweden and Finland to NATO.

    ...

    SOURCE:
    The American Conservative Op-Ed: Dr. Rand Paul: Should NATO Admit Sweden and Finland?
    https://www.paul.senate.gov/american...en-and-finland
    Remember it's 3D chess when Donald "I love big government" Trump does it but when Rand does it, he hates the Constitution.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Remember it's 3D chess when Donald "I love big government" Trump does it but when Rand does it, he hates the Constitution.
    Trump didn't expand NATO and even threatened to leave it.
    Trump also is not a doctrinaire noninterventionist who was betraying his principles and promises when he did or said anything close to this.

    And I would oppose Trump saying anything like this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump didn't expand NATO and even threatened to leave it.
    Trump also is not a doctrinaire noninterventionist who was betraying his principles and promises when he did or said anything close to this.

    And I would oppose Trump saying anything like this.
    Oh he threatened to leave, well then. That is something. Is that like how Reagan threatened to cut spending?

    You oppose Rand saying, "lets have a conversation"? How in the world is he betraying his principles by making it about the Constitution?

  7. #6
    Rand's foreign policy positions are not very good lately.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Rand's foreign policy positions are not very good lately.
    Because unlike Trump and the rest of the sellouts, Rand wants to follow the Constitution?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    Because unlike Trump and the rest of the sellouts, Rand wants to follow the Constitution?
    If it was purely about following the Constitution, Rand would say it's none of our business what Finland and Sweden does and otherwise keep his opinions about Russia to himself. (Ron's position on Ukraine, basically)

    But Rand has chosen to take an active position to label Putin as the aggressor in this conflict, which is both an entirely false and dangerous position to take, and pushes us closer to WW III.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    If it was purely about following the Constitution, Rand would say it's none of our business and otherwise keep his opinions to himself. (Ron's position on Ukraine, basically)
    Why don't you think Rand wants us out of NATO anymore?
    Do you see that plate of crap with the side of toast? Rands responsible for the side of toast.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    But Rand has chosen to take an active position to label Putin as the aggressor in this conflict, which is both an entirely false and dangerous position to take, and pushes us closer to WW III.
    Ohh an "active" position. Well then...

    Because it's not considered aggressive when Putin attacked Ukraine?

    WW3? Really? You get that from Michele Bachmanns playbook?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    What proof do you have he bought the medias bs on Putin, you drama queen?
    He tweeted the below in May. Shows that he bought the media bs in wholesale quantities.

    "
    While I sympathize with the people of Ukraine, and commend their fight against Putin"
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  13. #11
    "In the coming days I will propose conditions to the treaty stating that Article 5 does not supersede the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war before engaging in hostilities, and that the U.S. will not bear any costs caused by the addition of Sweden and Finland to NATO."

    Next time, read the article you linked before throwing Rand under the bus.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    "In the coming days I will propose conditions to the treaty stating that Article 5 does not supersede the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war before engaging in hostilities, and that the U.S. will not bear any costs caused by the addition of Sweden and Finland to NATO."

    Next time, read the article you linked before throwing Rand under the bus.
    I did.
    His proposed conditions will be ignored and he knows it.
    His vote will make almost as little difference as his proposed conditions but that doesn't mean he should not vote no.
    The worst thing he is doing is not even voting present, the worst thing is taking the anti-Russia, pro-Ukraine, interventionist position rhetorically.
    If either side is less bad and less wrong it is Russia and we should be looking to leave NATO not to expand the number of nations we are obligated to defend.
    Russia is not our enemy and Ukraine has committed crimes against us in collusion with Biden and his friends.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I did.
    His proposed conditions will be ignored and he knows it.
    His vote will make almost as little difference as his proposed conditions but that doesn't mean he should not vote no.
    The worst thing he is doing is not even voting present, the worst thing is taking the anti-Russia, pro-Ukraine, interventionist position rhetorically.
    If either side is less bad and less wrong it is Russia and we should be looking to leave NATO not to expand the number of nations we are obligated to defend.
    Russia is not our enemy and Ukraine has committed crimes against us in collusion with Biden and his friends.
    How do you know which way he is voting?
    His proposed conditions for not giving Ukraine money were ignored too. Do you have a point?
    Show proof he's taking the anti-Russia, pro-Ukraine, interventionist position stance.
    Last edited by tebowlives; 07-16-2022 at 04:40 AM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    How do you know which way he is voting?
    His proposed conditions for not giving Ukraine money were ignored too. Do you have a point?
    Show proof he's taking the anti-Russia, pro-Ukraine, interventionist position stance.
    Read the article before commenting:

    'I have shifted from being against their admittance to NATO to neutral on the question, and will as a consequence vote “present.”'
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Read the article before commenting:

    'I have shifted from being against their admittance to NATO to neutral on the question, and will as a consequence vote “present.”'
    Read Rands point before commenting. Even though you have continued to ignore Rands entire point, I will continue to point it out because that is what matters.
    Again -
    "In the coming days I will propose conditions to the treaty stating that Article 5 does not supersede the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war before engaging in hostilities, and that the U.S. will not bear any costs caused by the addition of Sweden and Finland to NATO."

    If you want to ignore the fact that he wants Congress to declare war, which they won't, that's on you.

  18. #16
    Rand is pathetic here and has abandoned his principles most likely because he was told to do so by the GOP leadership, or he would be punished by having a scandal arise that would ultimately remove him from his Senate seat.

    Russia is just the scapegoat rationale, like it is for almost every other thing right now, inflation, gas prices, supply chain, etc. Sad he has used the exact same scapegoat that literally every other neocon, RINO, and globalist Dem has been using for 6 years now. We don't need NATO and should have nothing to do with it, which should be his response to this, just like his father.

    If Ron took this approach, it would be absolutely unacceptable and contradictory, and many of us would be unhappy. He warned us for years about the dangers of entangling alliances. His son should be held accountable by the liberty movement and Ron Paul supporters, and thus far I am barely hearing a peep.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    Rand is pathetic here and has abandoned his principles most likely because he was told to do so by the GOP leadership, or he would be punished by having a scandal arise that would ultimately remove him from his Senate seat.
    Prove this or STFU. So every time he has opposed leadership they haven't done that to him but this time they will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    Russia is just the scapegoat rationale, like it is for almost every other thing right now, inflation, gas prices, supply chain, etc. Sad he has used the exact same scapegoat that literally every other neocon, RINO, and globalist Dem has been using for 6 years now. We don't need NATO and should have nothing to do with it, which should be his response to this, just like his father.
    or he could engage in a conversation and make it about the Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    If Ron took this approach, it would be absolutely unacceptable and contradictory, and many of us would be unhappy. He warned us for years about the dangers of entangling alliances. His son should be held accountable by the liberty movement and Ron Paul supporters, and thus far I am barely hearing a peep.
    because he wants to have a conversation and make it about he Constitution?
    Last edited by tebowlives; 07-16-2022 at 04:41 AM.

  21. #18
    My position is neutral on them joining as well because I think the US should leave NATO. It's past it's usefulness date. Putin has already stated that Russia doesn't oppose them joining so this will not lead to any new conflict if the US has to remain a member.

  22. #19
    I've deleted over a dozen posts in this thread for gratuitous insults and name-calling.

    Disagree as vehemently as you like, but please remain civil.

    If it happens again, I will start issuing infractions.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I've deleted over a dozen posts in this thread for gratuitous insults and name-calling.

    Disagree as vehemently as you like, but please remain civil.

    If it happens again, I will start issuing infractions.
    It's a shame those posts are lost to history though. Some of tebow's insults were really good.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    It's a shame those posts are lost to history though.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI


    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Some of tebow's insults were really good.
    You seemed to be giving as good as you got.

  25. #22
    The below is an argument between Rand and Blinken, where it's actually Blinken promoting the "right to self determination" (0:35). Which is just hilariously ironic in so many ways.

    Either way, this Rand/Blinken argument is just pathetic. It's a debate with zero of actual substance and proves that neither one knows what they are talking about.



    @3:25 the blonde chick gets closest to the truth, when she says "Russia was not actually just concerned about Ukraine joining NATO, Russia just didnt want Ukraine to be a sovereign independent nation at all"
    Last edited by TheTexan; 07-17-2022 at 07:59 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  26. #23
    So many people on this forum were inspired when Ron dropped the truth bomb on the debate stage, "They don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we've been bombing and killing them"

    If someone came out and told the truth on Ukraine it could very well inspire others in a similar way. It's a missed opportunity.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  27. #24
    Rand is stepping out of the way of interventionism and feeding the interventionist agenda.
    Whether or not Russia is wrong doesn't really matter to us, we should do nothing about it and that includes allowing more members into NATO to then have a claim on us to be dragged into their wars.

    P.S. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt and criminal countries in the world and has participated in crimes against the American people, I hope Russia wins.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rand is stepping out of the way of interventionism and feeding the interventionist agenda.
    Whether or not Russia is wrong doesn't really matter to us, we should do nothing about it and that includes allowing more members into NATO to then have a claim on us to be dragged into their wars.
    No he's not stepping out of the way. He's making it about the Constitution like he should. That is where he wants the conversation to go. And yes we should do nothing about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    P.S. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt and criminal countries in the world and has participated in crimes against the American people, I hope Russia wins.
    Agree 100%

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rand is stepping out of the way of interventionism and feeding the interventionist agenda.
    Whether or not Russia is wrong doesn't really matter to us, we should do nothing about it and that includes allowing more members into NATO to then have a claim on us to be dragged into their wars.

    P.S. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt and criminal countries in the world and has participated in crimes against the American people, I hope Russia wins.
    Pretty much spot on.

    Whether or not Russia is wrong doesn't really matter to us
    It kinda does in a big picture sense. My #1 issue is secession and it has been for many years, because the right to self determination is the root of all freedom.

    And when Rand says stuff like Putin is the aggressor in this conflict, he's actively working against the right to self determination. (And he's actively working against the "constitushun" which is also founded on the right to self determination)

    It's obviously not a huge issue that Rand says stuff like this, but I would still prefer he either get his facts right or just keep his aggressor opinions to himself.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Pretty much spot on.



    It kinda does in a big picture sense. My #1 issue is secession and it has been for many years, because the right to self determination is the root of all freedom.

    And when Rand says stuff like Putin is the aggressor in this conflict, he's actively working against the right to self determination. (And he's actively working against the "constitushun" which is also founded on the right to self determination)

    It's obviously not a huge issue that Rand says stuff like this, but I would still prefer he either get his facts right or just keep his aggressor opinions to himself.
    I agree, but I meant that the independence of Donbass and Luhansk are not worth one American life or dollar either.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I agree, but I meant that the independence of Donbass and Luhansk are not worth one American life or dollar either.
    Also true
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  33. #29

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    One could pretty easily make the claim that Congress has delegated its constitutional duty to declare war to NATO.

    Which is a $#@!ing stupid thing to do, but still "potentially" "constitutional"

    Either way, I am glad that Rand is pushing that angle
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Erdogan takes the bribe: Sweden and Finland invited to join NATO
    By Snowball in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-29-2022, 09:31 AM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-29-2022, 07:39 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-28-2017, 06:40 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-20-2016, 10:59 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-02-2011, 07:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •