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Thread: The rent is too damn high...in 2022 it's for real, too damn high

  1. #1

    The rent is too damn high...in 2022 it's for real, too damn high

    @dannno

    His post prompted me to post this recent EP autos piece on rents and what the hell is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Anybody else here looking for a place to rent right now??

    I live in one of the nicest places in the entire country.. rents aren't as outrageous as Silicon Valley or Manhattan, but they are more than the nicest parts of L.A. and surrounding area (OC, San Diego, etc)

    I picked up a lease 2.5 years ago, and now I have to move out.

    To get a similar place here, I would have to pay an additional $1,000/mo on top of what I currently pay.

    Since I'm working from home, I'm considering moving.. But looking at rents in other states, (NV, UT, I just checked out Austin for fun...) my rent is STILL going to go up in price compared to my California++ rent from 2.5 year ago! It's absolutely insane out there right now.

    Anybody who doesn't have a stable lease and has to move right now is getting royally screwed. My landlord decided to make the upstairs unit here legal and convert to an ADU. Huge mistake. Half way through, the inspectors basically said he has to tear apart the whole house. $#@!ing California Govt, $#@! you.


    BlackRocking . . .

    https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2022.../blackrocking/

    By
    eric -
    June 26, 2022

    Why are billion-dollar “capital” entities like BlackRock buying up hundreds of millions of dollars of formerly privately owned homes? It may be possible to divine the answer by looking at another number:

    The millions of people on the cusp of being evicted from the places they rent.

    According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there are some 6.7 million of these people – who’ve had their rents increase by $250 per month, on average. The majority of these people earn less than $25,000 annually – and all of them have had the buying power of whatever they earn reduced by about 15 percent, via what is styled “inflation,” in order to make the victims of it think that the things they need to buy or pay for (like rent) cost more. In fact, their money just buys – and pays for – less.

    Many of these renters have had their rent subsidized as part of what was styled “pandemic” relief,” an odd way of putting it since the “pandemic” didn’t force anyone to stop working (or hiring workers).

    Rather, it was the government that did it.

    The same government also told landlords they could not evict renters who weren’t paying rent. Which meant that landlords were being forced by the government to pay their rent – via the cost of paying the property taxes the government didn’t hold in abeyance, as well as all the associated carrying costs of owning a rental property – including the monthly mortgage payment.

    That is coming to an end – along with the paying of people not to work.

    But how will millions of these renters pay their rent with money they haven’t got – or which buys (and pays for) 15 percent less than it did before the “pandemic” devalued it by that amount?

    It is likely many of them will not be able to pay the rent because if they do, they will not be able to eat.

    What will happen, then?

    It is possible there will be a kind of Mass Eviction Event, unprecedented (like so many other things of late) in modern American history. Try to imagine 6.7 million new “homeless” people – the air fingers quote marks to remind people of the meaning-manipulation performed so deftly by the Left when it means to subvert honest conversation by using dishonest language.

    Once upon a time, there were bums – and derelicts. Irresponsible and dysfunctional people who lived on the street (and under overpasses) because they either wouldn’t or couldn’t work. They were a fringe element for these and related reasons.

    But how about millions who don’t want to live on the street – or under a bridge? People – many of them – who would like to work but find it doesn’t pay enough to cover the rent, their pay having lost much of its value? Or because they have been surviving on credit – the accumulation of debt – and the bill for that is now coming due . . . ?

    Enter the Rock that is Black.

    It stands ready to rent the private homes it has been buying up to the people who can no longer pay rent. If that sounds incongruous, consider who is likely to be paying the rent. Not the government, of course. The government doesn’t pay for anything. It makes us pay for everything – via the taxes we’re forced to pay it. Government redistributes this money – typically, to engender dependence and loyalty from those who receive it.

    The number of people receiving these bribes – for that is ultimately what’s on the table here – could be set to increase by . . . about 6.7 million. That is a lot of people. Enough people to create a “crisis.” One that the government will not allow to go to waste, having precipitated it.

    There will be urgent, gas-lit “calls” to “do something” about this army of “homeless” people. And – in truth – something will need to be done, because 6.7 (or even two million) new “homeless” people is a hell of a problem. Desperate people being inclined to do desperate things. They can’t be locked up – realistically speaking and leaving aside compassionately speaking. But they do need housing.

    Maybe the one next door to you?

    It’s diabolically ingenious, isn’t it? How better to “bust up” still-intact neighborhoods – especially those in suburban and rural areas – than by introducing millions of government-dependents among them? People who don’t pay rent – but use the government to force you to pay theirs . . . plus whatever else it is decided they “need.” Who will be able to vote in your local elections, too.

    In this way, Black Rock does what even the government has been unable to do – thus far – by using private capital to advance the same agenda government has pursued for decades, without the incrementalism of taking decades to advance it. Just the same as private corporations (well, “private” insofar as legal technicalities) were used with great effect to skirt the obstacles facing government when it came to having to pass laws to enforce “pandemic”-related measures such the “mandated” wearing of Face Diapers and other such variants of Servility Kabuki.

    So, first – drive up the price of real estate by buying as much of it as money allows, the money available being almost without limit. At the same time, devalue the purchasing power of money, such that fewer people can afford to buy – or rent – a home. Then – having created the “crisis” – leverage it to great advantage, by getting the government to pay the rent using money extracted from the hides of the dwindling few who can still (just barely) afford a privately owned home.

    Then squeeze these few – and not just financially. Place them between a rock and a hard place, their homes surrounded by homes lived in by people who no longer have to worry about their rent.

    Because you’re paying it, now.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire



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  3. #2
    As the concentration of wealth becomes tighter and tighter, and the currency devalues into nothingness, there isn't going to be any sustainable solution to the collapse of top-down capitalism via promulgation of debt, but that's all they can keep doing, because they won't provide the simple fixes.

    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government, and, like in energy, food, medicine, it's going to require price controls and profit caps, because the greed principle is bankrupting this country. So much for Adam Smith. He was wrong.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  4. #3
    All for the sole purpose of making it impossible to live anywhere.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    As the concentration of wealth becomes tighter and tighter, and the currency devalues into nothingness, there isn't going to be any sustainable solution to the collapse of top-down capitalism via promulgation of debt, but that's all they can keep doing, because they won't provide the simple fixes.

    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government, and, like in energy, food, medicine, it's going to require price controls and profit caps, because the greed principle is bankrupting this country. So much for Adam Smith. He was wrong.
    I find it amusing as life gets better and better and the world gets wealthier and as markets continue to work amazing well to allocate scarce resources, people like you get more and more miserable and want to inflict that misery on everyone else. The year 2022 is the best time in human history to be alive.

    Literally the only possible way for the golden goose to be killed is turning America into Venezuela with price controls and nationalizing industries. The zero percent success rate of price controls should be a tip off it is a bad idea.

  6. #5
    Rents are going higer. They have to . Ins and property taxes are rising. It is simply inflation. Wages will go up but they wont tkeep up. It just means Americans will need to join some of the rest of the world in a lower standard of living and in paying more for housing , food and energy.It will result in less growth but that doesnt change a lot since growth has been dismal overall for two decades .Krugminator is right , price controls would just signal collapse of the empire. One positive may come from it inadvertantlly , workforce participation may go up as more retired people continue to work part time and be productive which also could keep them sligtly healthier. We'll see.
    Do something Danke

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    As the concentration of wealth becomes tighter and tighter, and the currency devalues into nothingness, there isn't going to be any sustainable solution to the collapse of top-down capitalism via promulgation of debt, but that's all they can keep doing, because they won't provide the simple fixes.

    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government, and, like in energy, food, medicine, it's going to require price controls and profit caps, because the greed principle is bankrupting this country. So much for Adam Smith. He was wrong.
    Simple fixes include ending the fed.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
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    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Simple fixes include ending the fed.
    I support that.
    Do something Danke

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    As the concentration of wealth becomes tighter and tighter, and the currency devalues into nothingness, there isn't going to be any sustainable solution to the collapse of top-down capitalism via promulgation of debt, but that's all they can keep doing, because they won't provide the simple fixes.

    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government, and, like in energy, food, medicine, it's going to require price controls and profit caps, because the greed principle is bankrupting this country. So much for Adam Smith. He was wrong.
    Big government caused this disaster not free market capitalism and now you want even bigger government to fix it?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government, and, like in energy, food, medicine, it's going to require price controls and profit caps, because the greed principle is bankrupting this country. So much for Adam Smith. He was wrong.
    "Corporate cronyism sucks, so we need to nationalize housing. And we need to impose price controls and profit caps, because those things have worked out so well for energy, food, and medicine."

    LOL wut?

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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I find it amusing as life gets better and better and the world gets wealthier and as markets continue to work amazing well to allocate scarce resources, people like you get more and more miserable and want to inflict that misery on everyone else. The year 2022 is the best time in human history to be alive.

    Literally the only possible way for the golden goose to be killed is turning America into Venezuela with price controls and nationalizing industries. The zero percent success rate of price controls should be a tip off it is a bad idea.
    Off your rocker. Price controls always work perfectly when they are enforced with rigor.
    Still, they are medicine for the sick patient. I address this in the next post.
    Last edited by Snowball; 06-29-2022 at 05:30 AM.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Simple fixes include ending the fed.
    Most definitely. If we End the Fed, the banker controls over the financial markets ends.

    Then we could start passing more laws to restrict market abuses, such as collusion to pervert futures markets in certain commodities.

    For example, there was a time when participation in the oil and gas and agriculture futures market was restricted only to growers and producers.
    This meant the futures market at the mercantile exchange performed its intentional function, to act as a hedge against unforseen events, like adverse weather.

    Unfortunately, over the years, that notion and protection fell by the wayside, and the rest is history. Not unlike the protections of Glass-Steagall were rescinded.

    I didn't mean to suggest price controls are the most desirable action, but right now, I believe they are necessary since nothing else can or will be done.

    We aren't going to make a more effective market, or a more constitutional currency anytime soon. Price controls in a national emergency can cap the harm when you don't have a domestic business environment that cares about the public. The public is at war against international financiers. We're shipping natural gas to China while overcharging our people here at home. Just right now - caps. The Fed can raise rates, but it's not stopping inflation. Price caps do stop it. They confront the inefficiencies which we allowed to occur through the corruption of our ruling class over many decades.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Off your rocker. Price controls always work perfectly when they are enforced with rigor.
    Still, they are medicine for the sick patient. I address this in the next post.
    They work perfectly at causing shortages. Didn't work in ancient Rome, didn't work in Chile. Didn't work for Hugo Chavez. Didn't work for Nixon. Been a disaster for housing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post

    Then we could start passing more laws to restrict market abuses, such as collusion to pervert futures markets in certain commodities.

    For example, there was a time when participation in the oil and gas and agriculture futures market was restricted only to growers and producers.
    This meant the futures market at the mercantile exchange performed its intentional function, to act as a hedge against unforseen events, like adverse weather.
    If futures markets were limited to growers and producers you would have no market. Someone has to assume the risk and take the other side of the trade. There aren't enough growers and producers to trade with each other at one time. Thinly traded markets are the most easy to manipulate. Liquid markets are almost impossible to mainupulate.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    We aren't going to make a more effective market, or a more constitutional currency anytime soon.
    We have to play into the bad guys' hands because even though we can cure the problem, the bad guys are unwilling to cure the problem.

    I've been listening to this line of crap all my life, and I'm sick of it.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    We have to play into the bad guys' hands because even though we can cure the problem, the bad guys are unwilling to cure the problem.

    I've been listening to this line of crap all my life, and I'm sick of it.
    Oh, so you think that not being a realist is better? Good luck with no representation.

    As if this country never survived Nixon's 90-day freeze ? 1971 was a better year than 2022.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Oh, so you think that not being a realist is better? Good luck with no representation.

    As if this country never survived Nixon's 90-day freeze ? 1971 was a better year than 2022.
    The bad guys are going to destroy the country, but maybe they'll throw us a bone along the way isn't "realism".

    It's collaboration.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The bad guys are going to destroy the country, but maybe they'll throw us a bone along the way isn't "realism".

    It's collaboration.
    ok. Free markets. yay. Ship the LNG to China and Europe. Pay $500/mo to heat home.
    Drive up oil to 150 bbl regardless of supply, and pay $15 for a pound of turkey at the deli.

    Enjoy. But hey, at least muh principles are intact.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    ok. Free markets. yay. Ship the LNG to China and Europe. Pay $500/mo to heat home.
    Drive up oil to 150 bbl regardless of supply, and pay $15 for a pound of turkey at the deli.

    Enjoy. But hey, at least muh principles are intact.
    Is there any particular reason to believe such things would suddenly happen in the event of a free market, or are you just spouting woke scare tactics for fun?
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Is there any particular reason to believe such things would suddenly happen in the event of a free market, or are you just spouting woke scare tactics for fun?
    It is none other than the "free market" which allowed the concentration of wealth and the perversions in our markets and government to occur over time. Financial and political markets serve this tiny group at the expense of the masses, a plot that is approaching its zenith; there is no longer any "free market" but rather, an owned and managed faux-market.

    The erstwhile imagined "natural" machinations of supply-and-demand are no longer functioning except on micro-scales that are inconsequential. The reasons for this are both financial control and governmental control via the captured levels of American government that function to pay the banking/investment cartel with newly created debts to the same, rather than perform the necessary relief constructs (welfare, etc) themselves. These relief constructs became necessary due to the corruption of finance implemented by the same. Even after we put the governments on the hook for trillions, this tiny group only ascends to greater heights of tyranny over us.

    There is nothing "woke" about price caps and profit caps, or Anti-Trust legislation, or Tariffs, etc, unless you truly insist that all legislative and executive actions that have historically taken place to help the masses mitigate the damage caused to their lives by the globalist oligarchy was "woke". At that point, you better ask yourself why you are a dupe.
    Last edited by Snowball; 06-30-2022 at 05:35 AM.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Of course, it's the "free market" that allowed the concentration of wealth and the perversions in our markets.
    The willingness of politicians to take bribes and prostitute themselves is not the free market most people mean when you hey talk about free markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    There is nothing "woke" about price caps and profit caps, or Anti-Trust legislation, or Tariffs, etc, unless you truly insist that all legislative and executive actions that have historically taken place to help the masses mitigate the damage caused to their lives by the globalist oligarchy was "woke".
    I wasn't saying the "solutions" of increased government control in everyone's lives which are proposed in response to government-created problems are "woke". If "woke" people really were awake, they'd see through that gambit, just as you would if you were awake.

    I was referring to this completely unsubstantiated, baseless drivel:

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    ok. Free markets. yay. Ship the LNG to China and Europe. Pay $500/mo to heat home.
    Drive up oil to 150 bbl regardless of supply, and pay $15 for a pound of turkey at the deli.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-30-2022 at 06:00 AM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Financial and political markets serve this tiny group at the expense of the masses, a plot that is approaching its zenith; there is no longer any "free market" but rather, an owned and managed faux-market.

    Strangely the masses keep getting richer and richer. A middle class person today has a higher standard of living than the wealthiest people in the world a century ago.

    rather than perform the necessary relief constructs (welfare, etc) themselves. These relief constructs became necessary due to the corruption of finance implemented by the same.
    Two-thirds of the budget is welfare spending. How much more free stuff should people be getting?


  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Strangely the masses keep getting richer and richer. A middle class person today has a higher standard of living than the wealthiest people in the world a century ago.



    Two-thirds of the budget is welfare spending. How much more free stuff should people be getting?
    Total B.S. Why? Because more dollars doesn't equal more wealth. The masses are earning far less compared to the elites, real wages are stagnant for decades, and it doesn't matter if your house appreciates 1000% in value when everyone else's does also, that's called inflation. Inflation and Debt are NOT productivity. Human labor and invention produces value, not monopoly money. How do you think Russia can destroy this country in a half hour and spends less than 5% what we do on weapons? Because money is not the driver of real value, it's supposed to be a mere medium of exchange, and a static one at that.

    An acre of land where I live was $25-50 when my great-grandfather was buying it. A house was $1500. An uneducated, non English-speaking day laborer could work 1 year, buy his own house and land debt-free. Debasement of the currency is not a meal, it's crystal meth. The drug-dealer makes all the money, and the population gets sick and wasted.
    Last edited by Snowball; 06-30-2022 at 11:18 AM.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    As the concentration of wealth becomes tighter and tighter, and the currency devalues into nothingness, there isn't going to be any sustainable solution to the collapse of top-down capitalism via promulgation of debt, but that's all they can keep doing, because they won't provide the simple fixes.

    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government, and, like in energy, food, medicine, it's going to require price controls and profit caps, because the greed principle is bankrupting this country. So much for Adam Smith. He was wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Total B.S. Why? Because more dollars doesn't equal more wealth. The masses are earning far less compared to the elites, real wages are stagnant for decades, and it doesn't matter if your house appreciates 1000% in value when everyone else's does also, that's called inflation. Inflation and Debt are NOT productivity. Human labor and invention produces value, not monopoly money. How do you think Russia can destroy this country in a half hour and spends less than 5% what we do on weapons? Because money is not the driver of real value, it's supposed to be a mere medium of exchange, and a static one at that.

    An acre of land where I live was $25-50 when my great-grandfather was buying it. A house was $1500. An uneducated, non English-speaking day laborer could work 1 year, buy his own house and land debt-free. Debasement of the currency is not a meal, it's crystal meth. The drug-dealer makes all the money, and the population gets sick and wasted.
    And you want the government to take everything over.

    And just who do you think is devaluing the dollar? The owner of your local Habib store?

    Because if concentration of wealth is the problem, clearly total concentration of wealth is the answer. Realism, you called it?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-30-2022 at 12:12 PM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  26. #23
    I certainly do not want the government to take everything over. If you're going to misappropriate my words, use quotations.

    Nixon used price controls. The Fed uses price controls underhandedly and manipulates our money to its own ends.
    They have a price control on silver. Which is why it is barely holding 20/oz now.

    The FF's put the power of money control in the law and in Congress' hands for the sole reason of keeping it out of the bankers realms.
    I guess you might say they were statists for doing that? If the gov protects consumers by law, then there is LESS gov intervention.
    What requires MORE gov intervention is when the situation gets out of hand, then fake solutions are provided that don't address the structural achilles heels.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government...
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I certainly do not want the government to take everything over. If you're going to misappropriate my words, use quotations.
    No problem. Thought I did the first time.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers



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  29. #25
    I've been renting for the last 4 years because I was expecting the market to crash sooner. With the benefit of hindsight I should have bought, but such is life.

    My landlord decided to raise my rent $400 after raising it $300 last year. Last year, I obviously wasn't happy but when I checked rents in the area it was inline. This year, it's completely unrealistic. The market isn't supporting their price increase. Ultimately, I could cry on the internet about it, or sign a lease somewhere else. I did the second.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No problem. Thought I did the first time.
    Why did you include this quote of mine: "Simple fixes include housing that is owned by the government, not financiers paid by the government..."

    Do you suppose that it's "better" or "less commie" for the government to pay banks, corporations and REITs billions of dollars to house the elderly, disabled, incapable, and homeless -- with a built-in profit expense of 50%++, or to directly house these people ? In the 1970's, states were de-institutionalizing. The process was complete by the 1990's... much like the non-profit requirements for hospitals and health insurance were lifted. You know what happened? Health care prices went through the roof, compounding and doubling in rapid paces. Why? Because all the unnecessary costs were just gravy cash paid to Wall Street. At our expense and the expense of our governments. Section 8 was vastly increased, as was cash payouts to these people... for every single need... rather than provide for their needs in a manageable manner that does not incentivize them, the banks, and the business sector to encourage dependency. Are you the type of "libertarian" who would rather pay twice and thrice as much for your oil and gas bill so Big Oil execs and Green execs and Utility execs and their Wall Street owners pocket 60-70% off the top? All because at least your community doesn't own its own power plant, or institute price controls on critical goods, because that would be "Marxist" ?
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    ... much like the non-profit requirements for hospitals and health insurance were lifted. You know what happened? Health care prices went through the roof, compounding and doubling in rapid paces. Why?
    1. Medicare (a government-enforced government monopoly on health insurance for the elderly, obviously the major consumers of that particular service) began demanding reams of paperwork.

    2. Providers raised their rates on Medicare patients to cover the cost of completing the additional reams of paperwork.

    3. Government made it illegal for providers to charge anyone less than they charge Medicare for the same service, even cash customers who require no paperwork at all. Which is how they priced cash customers out of the market, and forced everyone into HMOs.

    Federal law prohibits a supplier from charging Medicare or Medicaid substantially in excess of the company’s usual charges, unless there is good cause. Specifically, 42 U.S.C. § 1320a-7(b)(6)(A) provides, in relevant part, as follows:

    The Secretary may exclude the following individuals and entities from participation in any Federal health care program (as defined in section 1320a–7b (f) of this title):

    Any individual or entity that the Secretary determines—

    A) has submitted or caused to be submitted bills or requests for payment. . . under subchapter XVIII of this chapter or a State health care program containing charges . . . for items or services furnished substantially in excess of such individual’s or entity’s usual charges . . . for such items or services, unless the Secretary finds there is good cause for such bills or requests containing such charges or costs[.]

    The key terms “substantially in excess” and “usual charges” are not defined in the statute. The current regulations issued under the statute, codified at 42 C.F.R. § 1001.701, simply repeat the language of the statute, without providing any guidance about the meaning of “substantially in excess” or “usual charges.” The Office of Inspector General (the “OIG”) has provided guidance through OIG Advisory Opinions and a guidance letter regarding the meaning of these terms on several occasions, but that guidance has been inconsistent.
    https://medtrade.com/news/billing-re...tate-Medicaid/

    Not a place you want to go to try to demonstrate that socialism is the answer to all our problems, or that Wall St. has any way to gouge us except to buy government interference in the market. At least, not with someone who was there and saw it happen long before they even created the particular propaganda you were fed in school.

    Quick tip: If you want to convince libertarians free markets are evil, find an actual free market to use as an example--if you can still find one.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-01-2022 at 07:08 AM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  32. #28
    acptulsa = black. snowball = red.

    ... much like the non-profit requirements for hospitals and health insurance were lifted. You know what happened? Health care prices went through the roof, compounding and doubling in rapid paces. Why?

    1. Medicare (a government-enforced government monopoly on health insurance for the elderly, obviously the major consumers of that particular service) began demanding reams of paperwork.

    The owner of a monopoly is not the buyer of said product. Those selling the product hold the monopoly. Ergo, for-profit corporations gouging the government's coffers is not a government monopoly.


    3. Government made it illegal for providers to charge anyone less than they charge Medicare for the same service, even cash customers who require no paperwork at all. Which is how they priced cash customers out of the market, and forced everyone into HMOs.

    Of course, except for the part where Medicare is decades older than for-profit healthcare is. Is it a mere coincidence that costs rose when corporations took over hospitals and HMO's began? I'm sure there's no connection? lol. ditto "paperwork", your 2.


    Not a place you want to go to try to demonstrate that socialism is the answer to all our problems, or that Wall St. has any way to gouge us except to buy government interference in the market. At least, not with someone who was there and saw it happen long before they even created the particular propaganda you were fed in school.

    Ok, let's revert again to questions I've asked such as was Nixon a "socialist" and were Anti-Trust Laws of the 1890's "socialist", because I'm not taking about the government spending money or increasing its programmes. I'm talking about saving money and providing for an economy that requires less programmes by utilizing constitutional protocols which is what the founders wanted to happen.


    Quick tip: If you want to convince libertarians free markets are evil, find an actual free market to use as an example--if you can still find one.

    Touché -- but that's always been the case, and in our case, whatever "most free" market remembered (or imagined) did still work to provide us with this situation we're in today.. ergo, free markets are almost always illusory, and always dangerous, due to the nature of capital.
    Last edited by Snowball; 07-01-2022 at 09:28 AM.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  33. #29
    Monopolists can't monopolize unless some power is used to stifle competition. Right?

    For profit health care predates Hippocrates. So does paperwork. And Hippocrates predates Medicare. Right? Don't try to use history to make your case until you learn enough of it to keep it from biting your ass.

    Policies of the 1890s led to Wilson, who was totally socialist. As for Nixon, he started Amtrak. Don't tell me that isn't socialist, and you're well advised to read this thread before trying to tell me it was necessary:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Passenger-Rail

    Capital never destroyed a free market faster than when it was used to bribe a politician, and yet you keep saying we need to call in the politicians.

    No.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-01-2022 at 11:49 AM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Monopolists can't monopolize unless some power is used to stifle competition. Right?

    For profit health care predates Hippocrates. So does paperwork. And Hippocrates predates Medicare. Right? Don't try to use history to make your case until you learn enough of it to keep it from biting your ass.

    Policies of the 1890s led to Wilson, who was totally socialist. As for Nixon, he started Amtrak. Don't tell me that isn't socialist, and you're well advised to read this thread before trying to tell me it was necessary:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Passenger-Rail

    Capital never destroyed a free market faster than when it was used to bribe a politician, and yet you keep saying we need to call in the politicians.

    No.
    So.. back to the subject of this thread which is one of the many similar examples I've been discussing here. You admit zero, no role for the legislatures or the executive in market "interference", but at the same time you have to admit that the market interference is extreme. For example, economic so-called laws cannot happen any longer, as price discovery is gone the way of the dinosaur, when, for example, EBT cards buy the foodstuffs of close to half the population. These people do not pay for food, so if they do not pay for food, and have so many other supplementary ways of getting free food on top of the EBT cards, then how does freely-occurring inflation-deflation dynamics take place any longer? It does not. There is no adjustment to the consumer's ability to pay. The consumer's wallet becomes irrelevant because the consumer is the government that just borrows more phony money, and prices do not go down anymore -- because there is no retraction based on consumer's ability or willingness to pay.

    Rent - same deal. Government pays Section 8. Rents go up because huge firms are financed by banks and encouraged by municipalities to inflate. Higher taxes, higher debts, higher rents, and more government cost for Section 8 and all the other housing programs that are currently being extended to more of the population.

    It was the politicians who did all these things, but you're totally obtruse to supporting a political retraction of those deeds? How can it be so? Are you familiar with the law? The law in this country gives the power of reversing political decisions only to politicians or the U.S. Supreme Court. That's what I call limited options for retraction.
    Last edited by Snowball; 07-01-2022 at 02:21 PM.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

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