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Thread: Libertarian Party Elects New Chair

  1. #1

    Libertarian Party Elects New Chair

    Don't even know her [Angela McArdle], but she is supposedly, pro-Mises.

    They have definitely been infiltrated with wokeness over the years, so I haven't paid them much attention.

    https://reason.com/video/2022/06/21/...ngela-mcardle/


    "The main function of the Libertarian Party is to try to make the United States a freer place," says Angela McArdle, who won her election for Libertarian National Committee chair with an overwhelming 70 percent of the vote at the party's national convention in Reno, Nevada, last May. "People disagree on what strategy to take to achieve that purpose. I believe there's room for both strategies: to send out strong messaging campaigns and to win elections."

    McArdle had the backing of the Mises Caucus, whose candidates swept all the leadership positions at the convention. Reason's Nick Gillespie sat down with her in Reno a day before she became the party's new chair to better understand what changes she wants to make to the party's messaging, political strategy, and official policies.
    -----

    If the stampman tells you to kiss his ass, shall he get away with it and live? Don't let your courage cool, or a few bullies scare you. We've nothing to fear but slavery. Love your liberty, and fight for it like men who know its value. Once lost it will never, never be regained.
    -Hugh Ledlie, 1774.



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  3. #2
    Let me know when they reject open borders, unilateral free trade, abortion, Quueer "marriage" and all its resultant degeneracy, and fascism disguised as corporatism ("free market vaccine mandates etc.).
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Let me know when they reject open borders, unilateral free trade, abortion, Quueer "marriage" and all its resultant degeneracy, and fascism disguised as corporatism ("free market vaccine mandates etc.).
    Done.

    The Mises Caucus is basically the Ron Paul wing of the libertarian party.

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Done.

    The Mises Caucus is basically the Ron Paul wing of the libertarian party.

    I'll believe it when I see it.
    And I've already seen things to the contrary.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Let me know when they reject open borders, unilateral free trade, abortion, Quueer "marriage" and all its resultant degeneracy, and fascism disguised as corporatism ("free market vaccine mandates etc.).
    All of these issues are really tactical in nature, not strategic. The abortion issue is a great example of this in action. The MC controversially removed the pro-abortion plank of the LP. Dave Smith explained it well in his interview with Gillespie -- it's an issue that is dividing the LP due to personal beliefs, just like it divides the whole country, when it's not something that actually sets the LP apart from the other two parties. The MC will not be putting a pro-life plank in the platform, either. That's not because the MC or its members are pro-choice (DS is pro-life) but because it doesn't make sense to have a plank that divides your party. DS explained in that interview that individual candidates are free to run pro-life campaigns within the umbrella of the LP, and they could even make that run at the national level, so this isn't even about saying "State but not Federal". It's about saying that the party has to have a platform that unites libertarians without opposing the principles of liberty. Which is obvious.

    From a philosophical/theological perspective, pro-life can't really be separated from liberty. But there are lots of things that can't be separated from liberty in that way, but which don't make sense to be a part of the LP platform, or any political party's platform, for the simple reason that that's not what political parties are for. Getting dressed in the morning before you leave your house is a logical precondition of liberty, but anti-nudity doesn't need to be a plank in the LP platform. It just doesn't make sense. So the philosophical/theological can be separated from the political without becoming an outright pragmatist. It's a question of what sorts of things make sense to be addressed at the civil level. And that's partly a function of the views of the people, you can't just treat it as some kind of abstraction handed down from On High.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 06-22-2022 at 08:42 AM.
    Psalm 35:7-10, Psalm 109

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    It's a question of what sorts of things make sense to be addressed at the civil level.
    It's also a question of what level of civil government is best to address it, by which I mean, just how local. But in order to accept that, one has to actually have more respect for others than liberals do. Otherwise it becomes a matter of who gets to shove what down the throats of their enemies.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-22-2022 at 07:20 AM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's also a question of what level of civil government is best to address it, by which I mean, just how local. But in order to accept that, one has to actually have more respect for others than liberals do. Otherwise it becomes a matter of who gets to shove what down the throats of their enemies.
    Yes. But the MC's position is slightly more nuanced that just this. The GOP platform is pro-life, but at State not Federal level. It seems like a good plank but the problem is that it still divides the country. While it may be worthwhile to divide over certain issues, the whole purpose of a political party is to unite a sub-community to make effective political action possible. It doesn't benefit the LP (doesn't advance its broader political objectives) to have an abortion plank but, instead, to leave the issue to individual candidates to run on whichever side of the issue they hold to, and leave it to voters to decide. It's a fresh take and I think they have gotten it exactly right.
    Psalm 35:7-10, Psalm 109

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Let me know when they reject open borders, unilateral free trade, abortion, Quueer "marriage" and all its resultant degeneracy, and fascism disguised as corporatism ("free market vaccine mandates etc.).
    Yeah yeah we already know you want DC to control everything instead of respecting constitutional states rights and individual property rights.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Yes. But the MC's position is slightly more nuanced that just this.
    Thank God somebody's is.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Yeah yeah we already know you want DC to control everything instead of respecting constitutional states rights and individual property rights.
    Rights? Only he has the right to be right.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Let me know when they reject open borders, unilateral free trade, abortion, Quueer "marriage" and all its resultant degeneracy, and fascism disguised as corporatism ("free market vaccine mandates etc.).
    IMO the only libertarian plank that matters is secession. (which they support).

    The policy goals you are looking for, can only be achieved via secession.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Trump Jr 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    IMO the only libertarian plank that matters is secession. (which they support).

    The policy goals you are looking for, can only be achieved via secession.
    Not only do they support that plank, but they inserted it - or rather, they re-inserted it.

    Apparently, there was a secession plank before, but it had been removed for some damn reason.

    Probably because someone was worried it would scare some people away. And maybe it would - but so what?

    Such people are much better suited to doing things like helping Cato come up with proposals for making government more "efficient"[1], anyway.



    [1] Or helping Reason to defend gas taxes.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-22-2022 at 08:42 PM.

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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    All of these issues are really tactical in nature, not strategic. The abortion issue is a great example of this in action. The MC controversially removed the pro-abortion plank of the LP. Dave Smith explained it well in his interview with Gillespie -- it's an issue that is dividing the LP due to personal beliefs, just like it divides the whole country, when it's not something that actually sets the LP apart from the other two parties. The MC will not be putting a pro-life plank in the platform, either. That's not because the MC or its members are pro-choice (DS is pro-life) but because it doesn't make sense to have a plank that divides your party. DS explained in that interview that individual candidates are free to run pro-life campaigns within the umbrella of the LP, and they could even make that run at the national level, so this isn't even about saying "State but not Federal". It's about saying that the party has to have a platform that unites libertarians without opposing the principles of liberty. Which is obvious.

    From a philosophical/theological perspective, pro-life can't really be separated from liberty. But there are lots of things that can't be separated from liberty in that way, but which don't make sense to be a part of the LP platform, or any political party's platform, for the simple reason that that's not what political parties are for. Getting dressed in the morning before you leave your house is a logical precondition of liberty, but anti-nudity doesn't need to be a plank in the LP platform. It just doesn't make sense. So the philosophical/theological can be separated from the political without becoming an outright pragmatist. It's a question of what sorts of things make sense to be addressed at the civil level. And that's partly a function of the views of the people, you can't just treat it as some kind of abstraction handed down from On High.
    I have no idea what you think is strategic but the great replacement is the ultimate physical strategic concern and the perverts and abortion are the ultimate moral strategic concern.
    The others are pretty strategic as well.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Yeah yeah we already know you want DC to control everything instead of respecting constitutional states rights and individual property rights.
    I didn't know the LP only was interested in federal office.
    When did they decide that?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    IMO the only libertarian plank that matters is secession. (which they support).

    The policy goals you are looking for, can only be achieved via secession.
    The Texas GOP just added a secession plank and are in a much better position to actually do something about it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Texas GOP just added a secession plank and are in a much better position to actually do something about it.
    We'll see. I remain cautiously optimistic. Getting added to the GOP platform is one thing, getting added as a legislative priority for the next session, is a whole different thing.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Trump Jr 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    We'll see. I remain cautiously optimistic. Getting added to the GOP platform is one thing, getting added as a legislative priority for the next session, is a whole different thing.
    Yea... the 8 legislative priorities have been released. The secession vote wasn't even in the original list of 15 that they whittled down to 8.

    It's not happening in Texas any time soon.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Trump Jr 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  20. #17
    Young new female leader

    Bueno Suerte

    Hope she can grow party. & most importantly get people elected into position of power

    Letís face it, BS is thick w/ Libertarians lol

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I have no idea what you think is strategic but the great replacement is the ultimate physical strategic concern and the perverts and abortion are the ultimate moral strategic concern.
    The others are pretty strategic as well.
    Logical: Concerning truth and the relations between true things
    Moral: Concerning right behavior and treatment of people and resources
    Strategic: Concerning the best methods to achieve a given goal

    "Ultimate" things are the great enemy of strategy, because any ultimate commitment is just a free lever that you give to your enemy. Suppose you believe it is a great sin to strike someone in the face and you get into a fight with a man who knows this about you. For him, this knowledge makes the fight a thousand times easier since he does not need to cover his face, while he can still strike yours. This is the same mistake as choosing "ultimate" values in your political strategy.

    The R/D-swamp are not fighting by any rules at all, they are fighting as dirty as it is possible to fight. The conservative wing of the R-swamp has a huge PR push along the lines that they stand for "God, family and tradition" and this might even be true for those in that wing, but it is certainly not true of the R-swamp itself (quite the opposite!) Those true conservatives in the GOP who are naively working for the R-swamp do not understand that they are actively sabotaging their own goals in pretty much the most effective way possible. If they did, they would leave. The only thing of real value that a political party offers is its election/canvassing machinery (messaging + voting registration). The LP has a 80+% functioning political machine. It's not yet 100.0% functional and spit-shined like the R/D-swamp machinery. But it's mostly functioning and mostly ready-to-go.

    If the LP can breathe new life through the MC and become a fully-functioning political apparatus, it could become the vehicle for completing the movement that MAGA started. Instead of aiming for 50%+1 vote, why not start aiming for super-majorities? Yes, that sounds like wishful thinking at this point in time but every dream starts that way. Which is closest to the vision of the founding Fathers -- R, D or MC? Obviously, it's the MC. Both R and D are today a bunch of warmongering, Woke CCP zombies, with few exceptions. MC wins by a country mile.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 06-23-2022 at 07:07 PM.
    Psalm 35:7-10, Psalm 109

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't know the LP only was interested in federal office.
    When did they decide that?
    A decent deflection but we still know you're a central federal fan since you never, ever even speak on state's rights, only federal control advocacy. You're on record on RPF advocating for the destruction of the LP entirely so you should probably go find some Donald and DeSantis bootlicking threads to occupy you.

    Any way, it wasn't decided. LP platform is clear that most of your gripes are state issues under the 10th and/or individual property rights decisions and the thread is about the national party and who speaks for the LP nationally.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    A decent deflection but we still know you're a central federal fan since you never, ever even speak on state's rights
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    You're on record on RPF advocating for the destruction of the LP entirely
    Darn right.
    They occupy the potential 3rd party position and keep out other more viable parties while making sure to never become actual competition to the two big parties while managing to steal just enough votes from the Rs (including the good ones like Bevin) to help pull things to the left.
    That could change if they make the changes I laid out but the MC isn't going to make them.
    The MC will continue to be irrelevant assistant Demoncrats.
    I'd love to be proven wrong but I doubt it.

    If the MC doesn't make the necessary changes it would have been better for the leftarians to have retained control and destroyed the party so something much better could become the potential 3rd party.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Darn right.
    They occupy the potential 3rd party position and keep out other more viable parties while making sure to never become actual competition to the two big parties while managing to steal just enough votes from the Rs (including the good ones like Bevin) to help pull things to the left.
    That could change if they make the changes I laid out but the MC isn't going to make them.
    The MC will continue to be irrelevant assistant Demoncrats.
    I'd love to be proven wrong but I doubt it.

    If the MC doesn't make the necessary changes it would have been better for the leftarians to have retained control and destroyed the party so something much better could become the potential 3rd party.
    What would be the point? Your ideal 3rd party would never win, or even get close. And I say that as someone who would be rooting for your 3rd party to win.

    The only way you can build the society you want is via secession. And for that to happen, secession has to become mainstream and common.

    Even if Texas seceded tomorrow, that's just one secession. It brings you barely closer to your goals.

    The LP on the other hand, advocates for secession in a general sense, as a political tool to create societies such as the one you envision.

    The LP strives to give you the freedom to build the society that you want.

    No other political party offers you that.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Trump Jr 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL
    And still nothing about state's rights and property rights. Even your follow up post is about some replacement 3rd party whose only goal is apparently just to beat those pesky Dems, as if elections really matter anymore. 90% of federal Republican candidates are bought-and-paid-for-Dem-lite-WEF-lackeys.

    It's also strange how you simultaneously accuse the LP of being unbearably left on social issues (while refusing to acknowledge that they are 10th Amendment positions only) but also claim the LP steals winning vote margins from the right. Seems there's either some very confused right voters....or that you're writing whatever nonsense you can think up to bash the LP.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    What would be the point? Your ideal 3rd party would never win, or even get close. And I say that as someone who would be rooting for your 3rd party to win.

    The only way you can build the society you want is via secession. And for that to happen, secession has to become mainstream and common.

    Even if Texas seceded tomorrow, that's just one secession. It brings you barely closer to your goals.

    The LP on the other hand, advocates for secession in a general sense, as a political tool to create societies such as the one you envision.

    The LP strives to give you the freedom to build the society that you want.

    No other political party offers you that.
    The replacement would offer just as much or more than the LP.
    Everything you say about a replacement 3rd party applies as much or more to the LP.
    The Texas GOP is the current best chance for anything worth more than a bag of air to happen about secession and a replacement 3rd party would be as much or more pro-secession than the LP.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    And still nothing about state's rights and property rights. Even your follow up post is about some replacement 3rd party whose only goal is apparently just to beat those pesky Dems, as if elections really matter anymore. 90% of federal Republican candidates are bought-and-paid-for-Dem-lite-WEF-lackeys.

    It's also strange how you simultaneously accuse the LP of being unbearably left on social issues (while refusing to acknowledge that they are 10th Amendment positions only) but also claim the LP steals winning vote margins from the right. Seems there's either some very confused right voters....or that you're writing whatever nonsense you can think up to bash the LP.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Yah the national LP along with Reason are going to $#@!.

    Some state and local chapters are still legit.



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