Does God Appoint Leaders?

[donnay]

Does God Appoint Leaders?

America, a nation founded on the ideals of the Christian faith. A nation whose motto is “One Nation Under God”. A nation whose currency features the phrase, “In God We Trust”.

Yet, we have not trusted in God for generations. Instead, we left His side long ago, and with each passing Presidency, our nation slides further and further away from Him.

The Bible makes it clear, it’s God who appoints our leaders, rulers, and kings, (Romans 13:1). It is God who sets kings over us, (Daniel 2:21, 5:18). However, the very first time this occurred was not due to God’s decision or desires, it was due to mankind’s desires. It was the desire of the Israelites to have a man king reign over them, instead of God.

This was truly their downfall.

The Israelites made their request known to Samuel who was grieved in his heart.

Yet, God comforted Samuel saying,

“…Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.”

1 Samuel 8:7
God’s own People who He saved and protected had once again rejected Him, like so many times before, (Exodus 32:1-10, 35, Judges 3:7, 6:1).

It’s truly amazing to comprehend how a people could continually reject God, when He was the only good thing going for them. It shows our human nature to only do, see, and enjoy the things we can see with our eye, rather than honor the things we can only perceive with our spirit.

God would grant their request, but offered the Israelites an opportunity to remove their request. God asked Samuel to speak these words to the people.

And so Samuel did.

1 Samuel 8:11-13
11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.

13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

While the Israelites were a free people under God’s reign, they along with their sons and daughters were to become bond servants to the first man king of Israel. This would not be a one time ordeal, but perpetual throughout time, even to this very day.

Samuel continues, speaking of the man king that will reign over the people.

1 Samuel 8:14-17
14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

The Israelites would not only become bondservants, they would lose their property which they needed to sustain themselves. Properties that offered them freedom to live the way they choose, under God’s Law.

The man king would also tax a tenth of anything else that might remain in their possession.

That is all governments have ever done, is take from the people to enrich themselves. This was all a warning to the Israelites of what would forever be.

1 Samuel 8:18
And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

God offered them the opportunity to change their mind and continue to seek God as their King.

What would the people do after such a warning?

1 Samuel 8:19
Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

And so it was.

Since that day, the Israelites always had a man ruling over them. Taking their property or taxing it. Taking their wages through taxation, problems that exist even to this day.

That was thousands of years ago, and we learned nothing from this historical example. Today, we repeat the same mistakes as the Israelites.

We continually seek men to reign over us, all while rejecting God.

We seek men to reign over us, men who themselves reject God, and take our property and wages through excessive taxation.

We seek men to reign over us, men who take us from one disaster to the next.

Instead of seeking God to correct our problems, we seek another man to correct the course of our disaster, as if they can save us.

We never seem to learn from history, because we never seem to seek out God.

So I hope you are asking yourself…

Why did God say, man kings would continually take from the Israelites?

God said that as He knows the hearts of men, (1 Samuel 16:7). They easily become corrupted by greed, power, and wealth. Man continually seeks to take from his neighbor, what he himself will not work for.

God created us, He knows how we think, He knows without Him, we are a hopeless mess.

God also knows that Satan is “the god of this world”, (1 Corinthians 4:4). God made it known, that if we will not stand for God, then He will allow our adversary, the Devil to come into our camps, (1 Peter 5:8, 1 Chronicles 28:9). He will allow Satan to take over everything in an effort to drive us right back to God.

We have known since the time of Jesus that Satan has power over the nations. Power that Satan offered to Christ in the wilderness, (Matthew 4:8-9). While it was not tempting for Jesus, that power is certainly tempting for men, men who have no moral compass, (Psalm 36:4).

Men who have been conditioned to the ways of the world. Men who have rejected God and live their lives only seeking more gain, more wealth and power, just as God promised would happen in His conversation with Samuel, (1 Corinthians 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:5).

When wicked kings like this arise over the people, the people always suffer. They always lose, but the people are not innocent in this. As we learned, it was the people who requested a man king to begin with.

So it is today.

It is the people who have turned away from God, which naturally means, we will obtain a leader that has turned away from God. It’s a vicious and continuous cycle.

If we have learned anything from the Bible and its history, it’s that God appoints the leaders we deserve. God appoints leaders who will oppress us, yes, to drive us right back to Him, (Jdg 2:11-15, 3:7-8, 3:12, 4:1-2, 6:1, 10:6-7, 13:1, 1Ki 11:6-12, etc).

This happened continually to the Israelites, Nehemiah 9:9-39 provides a great summary of that.

For the nations who call themselves Christian, the curses we find in the Bible certainly apply to us. They apply as we, a Christian people are supposed to demand more from our elected officials. We are supposed to demand more from society. We are supposed to be the guiding light of the world, and our flame continually seems to diminish, (Pro 4:18, Mat 5:16, Eph 5:8).

Just like the Israelites from so long ago.

As we look at our world today, as we look at society today, we see our nation and the world in a tail spin. We see people joyous in their rejection of God, (2 Thessalonians 2:12, Romans 1:32). We were warned these things would come upon us, as we, as a people, as a society, when we reject God, (Deut 31:16-17, 2 Ti 3:1-7, Rom 1:18).

When the light fades from a room, darkness naturally takes over.

We were warned, “in the last days perilous times shall come,” (2 Timothy 3:1).

Those perilous times are here.

The times when many will “call evil good, and good evil”. The times when many will “put darkness for light, and light for darkness”. The times when many will “put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter”, but “woe unto them”, (Isaiah 5:20).

We now live in a time where righteousness is considered unrighteous. A gross perversion of reality and truth, a gross perversion of God’s natural laws. All brought about by men seeking other men to lead them, instead of God.

The more we continue to leave God, the more His wall of protection departs from us, (1 Kings 9:6-9). The more we will be exposed to our fleshly and spiritual enemies. The more Christians will become the outcasts of society.

Yet, there is only one way to undo these things.

It’s not by electing a new President or leader of our nation. It’s not by seeking after another man, it’s by seeking after God and turning back to Him. As an individual, as a people, and nation.

Listen to God plead with us.

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

We can only undo the wickedness that has gripped our nations by turning back to our Creator. We can only undo the wickedness by rejecting it and embracing God.

That takes effort from you, that takes effort from me.

It takes a change of heart.

A change that if we do not make, then we will continue to reap the morally corrupt leaders we deserve.

https://worldeventsandthebible.com/g...ders&utm_term=

[Anti Globalist]

God sure as hell didn't appoint Biden to be a leader.

[jkr]

does it look like it?

[Okie RP fan]

I was thinking about this last night and remembered someone had posted a thread about it.

What are we supposed to think when he see this and then see the so called "leaders" of this world? They are all evil and hubris driven. Perhaps some are truly well-intended but far too often those good intentions lead to ruin of some sort.

So, does God appoint leaders? If so, is he trying to show us the folly of man? Is he trying to show us that having faith in man and not Him will always lead to the same outcomes?

I mean, Joe Biden... God appointed this guy, eh? Brings up so many questions...

[ClaytonB]

I was thinking about this last night and remembered someone had posted a thread about it.

What are we supposed to think when he see this and then see the so called "leaders" of this world? They are all evil and hubris driven. Perhaps some are truly well-intended but far too often those good intentions lead to ruin of some sort.

So, does God appoint leaders? If so, is he trying to show us the folly of man? Is he trying to show us that having faith in man and not Him will always lead to the same outcomes?

I mean, Joe Biden... God appointed this guy, eh? Brings up so many questions...

I think we often tend to misunderstand the meaning of God's will. God's will also includes crimes against innocent victims. Theologians call such things to be within God's "permissive will", meaning, he permits them to occur for reasons that supercede the evilness of the crime itself. As long as we try to understand this world as "pretty much OK, but with some flaws", we are guaranteed to misunderstand God's will here. Rather, this world is a horrific abomination which God specifically prohibited Adam and Eve from bringing about. It was our parents who listened to the Serpent; Eve was deceived and Adam intentionally disobeyed. This inverted the entire order of the Creation since the Serpent was a creature of the field that Adam was to rule over. In this present evil world, however, man is subjugated by the thorns and weeds and other hostile creatures which he once ruled over. This is the place of "the knowledge of good and evil" which the Serpent was so eager to introduce our parents to. Now we know both.

The hierarchical structure of this present evil world is a complete inversion of how God originally created. Yes, the beauty and wonder of God's good order still shines through the darkness, like points of starlight in an all black-sky. That Biden is Resident is actually quite fitting. It is a very fitting manifestation of the truth about our political order. In the old days, they would have called it prophetic...

[Invisible Man]

Here the distinction between what God decrees and what he prescribes is important.

Every ruler who ever ruled was established by God's decree, with zero exceptions.

But it cannot be concluded from this fact that these rulers are in any sense acting pursuant to God's prescriptions in their acts of ruling. The point being made by Romans 13 and other passages that refer to God's appointment of rulers is that even when they sin against God (which for earthly rulers is the norm, not the exception--I would even say that their rebellion against God and his law is a defining attribute of the earthly rulers God establishes, and without this wicked attribute their regimes could not exist), God uses them to accomplish his own good purposes in spite of the fact that his purposes and their purposes are contrary to one another.

[acptulsa]

I don't believe he does for a second. What he decrees, what he proscribes, blah blah. He saves himself the trouble of decreeing by proscribing that we're old enough to make our own bed, and old enough to lie in it.

Seems rude to me to blame God for our crap.



God as micromanager. Whatever. If he wanted to micromanage everything, he'd do it right. There'd be no need for us to grow up, and there'd be no work for the devil.

When you're dealing with children, and compared to God, that's what we all are, lihop is understandable. Mihop is not something I care to attribute to God.

[ClaytonB]

I don't believe he does for a second. What he decrees, what he proscribes, blah blah. He saves himself the trouble of decreeing by proscribing that we're old enough to make our own bed, and old enough to lie in it.

Seems rude to me to blame God for our crap.

...

God as micromanager. Whatever. If he wanted to micromanage everything, he'd do it right. There'd be no need for us to grow up, and there'd be no work for the devil.

When you're dealing with children, and compared to God, that's what we all are, lihop is understandable. Mihop is not something I care to attribute to God.

But you're making a false-dichotomy. It's not either "God is micro-managing every single detail of the world", on the one hand, or "God has given us the tools to succeed and then departed somewhere else." Both of those views are equally inconsistent with Scripture. A good human father gives his children the tools to succeed, and keeps an eye out in case things go off the rails, and intervention is required. God is the perfect Father (Matt. 5:48), so he does exactly that... and unlike human fathers who inevitably screw up, he never gives too few or too many tools, nor too little or too much intervention. That's what makes him the perfect Father.

Ultimately, judging the world is not up to us. So, Epstein's disappearance and the apparent non-punishment of him and his ring of evildoers should not be turned into a black-pill. They will answer for their crimes, whether before God in heaven, or before God on earth and in heaven. The latter is no worse than the former -- both are terrifying beyond comprehension. "I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:5)

[acptulsa]

But you're making a false-dichotomy. It's not either "God is micro-managing every single detail of the world", on the one hand, or "God has given us the tools to succeed and then departed somewhere else."

Show me where I talked about God the Departed and I'll go to the trouble to read the rest of your post.

Seriously, where did I say or imply that?

Good parents see that their children screwed up and make them clean it up. Sometimes they see it before it happens, and let their kids screw up. Bad parents trick their kids into screwing up, usually so they can laugh at them. Neither did any departing.

Get that false dichotomy out of your own eye before you go picking at me, because that's the only place you could have seen it.

[donnay]

I was thinking about this last night and remembered someone had posted a thread about it.

What are we supposed to think when he see this and then see the so called "leaders" of this world? They are all evil and hubris driven. Perhaps some are truly well-intended but far too often those good intentions lead to ruin of some sort.

So, does God appoint leaders? If so, is he trying to show us the folly of man? Is he trying to show us that having faith in man and not Him will always lead to the same outcomes?

I mean, Joe Biden... God appointed this guy, eh? Brings up so many questions...

God is definitely in control.

If you read God's Word he lays it all out. The key to understanding is: The Four Hidden Dynasties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMu1yDRqiuQ
http://biblestudyforlife.com/four_hi..._the_world.htm
https://christschurchoftheholyword.c...dden-dynasties

Mark 13 is a great chapter and verse to read but one thing Jesus told the Disciples...

Mark 13:23
King James Version

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

[ClaytonB]

Show me where I talked about God the Departed and I'll go to the trouble to read the rest of your post.

Seriously, where did I say or imply that?

Good parents see that their children screwed up and make them clean it up. Sometimes they see it before it happens, and let their kids screw up. Bad parents trick their kids into screwing up, usually so they can laugh at them. Neither did any departing.

Get that false dichotomy out of your own eye before you go picking at me, because that's the only place you could have seen it.

You should know by now that I don't do "gotcha" debates -- I'm not trying to pin you to the mat, I'm just saying that it's a false dichotomy, and your previous post is basically "God helps those who help themselves" stated in other words. Well, if God only helps those who help themselves, then everyone is going to hell because no one can help themselves. The Bible is crystal clear that our situation is utterly hopeless apart from God's miraculous salvation -- specifically including our political situation!

I'm interpolating (no option, since your post is extremely sparse of direct claims) but the logical connection you seem to be making between your post and Epstein is that we should take action to make the politicians do something, and so on. We have to stop letting them get away with covering up their crimes and since God has given us the tools to do that (elected representatives, etc.), then he obviously expects us to make use of those tools before calling on him to fix every little problem for us.

While self-reliance is a virtue, excessive, stubborn self-reliance is a vice. After 2,000 years of history in the New Testament age, it is clear that humans are incapable of solving their own problems, in fact, they only make things worse and worse over time. If you want to butt heads over an imaginary speck I'm claiming you have in your eye, suit yourself. I'm just responding to what you're saying as best as I understand it.

[acptulsa]

I'm interpolating (no option, since your post is extremely sparse of direct claims)...

No, you're not. You wanted to launch into one of your little sermons, but you wanted it to appear conversational. So you twisted somebody's words into an excuse to get on your soapbox pulpit. In this case my words. And it's irritating because I did not say what you said I said, and I don't like the taste of your words in my mouth.

If you want to preach, just preach. Don't forge my name on an invitation to do it first. Maybe you're just looking for a segué, but when you use intentional misunderstanding of what was really said as your intro, you've already turned off the careful listeners among your congregation. And none moreso than the person you just misrepresented.

There's no need to build these houses on that sand.

You know, some people are sparse in their speech because they don't care to be misinterpolated. You could respect that.

[ClaytonB]

No, you're not. You wanted to launch into one of your little sermons, but you wanted it to appear conversational. So you twisted somebody's words into an excuse to get on your soapbox pulpit.

Incorrect on all counts.

In this case my words. And it's irritating because I did not say what you said I said, and I don't like the taste of your words in my mouth.

The world is a rough place. Better grow some thicker skin if you intend to survive it.

Maybe you're just looking for a segué, but when you use intentional misunderstanding of what was really said

To be blunt, what you're saying in that particular post is as clear as mud. My understanding is that you were making the argument that "God helps those who help themselves" in other words. Your "clarification" posts afterwards have cleared up nothing on that count because you want to play some kind of victim. You're informing me now that I've misunderstood something in your post. OK, if you say I misunderstood, then I misunderstood. I'm not playing "gotcha". And no, I won't apologize for expressing my own opinion in response to my best understanding of one of your posts.

You know, some people are sparse in their speech because they don't care to be misinterpolated. You could respect that.

Some people are verbose in the attempt to provide enough "verbal lubricant" so as not to seize others' brain-engines when explaining difficult/subtle ideas. But some engines just have a broken valve-stem, I guess...