Issue: Social: Ron Paul's views on the Space Race

[STA654]

Most Americans take great pride and a sense of awe when they view the photos of men walking upon the surface of the moon.

However the Space Race was notoriously expensive, and was called by many as a waste of taxpayer dollars.

If Ron Paul was a congressman during the space race, what do you think his position on the space race would have been? Let the free market take care of it?

[Wyurm]

look what happens when you let the market handle space issues: http://www.xprize.org/

Ron Paul has it right.

[STA654]

Yes, good point, but we are talking in the 1950s and 1960s, long before the Personal Computer revolution, which is a big part in making private space exploration a reality.

[RPR-omaha]

I really don't this is that important. Ron Paul wasn't in Congress during the space race. I think that Ron Paul would keep NASA because sooner or later space will be militarized. Ron Paul would make sure that other companies were allowed to compete with NASA. He might make big cuts in space exploration but all this is pure speculation on my part.

[ChrisM]

NASA is one of the largest expenses in the budget. It would probably undergo serious cuts, especially since its contributions aren't extremely important considering their costs. Why did we have to shoot a rocket at a comet, again?

[Wyurm]

NASA is one of the largest expenses in the budget. It would probably undergo serious cuts, especially since its contributions aren't extremely important considering their costs. Why did we have to shoot a rocket at a comet, again?

to collect comet dust.

[richard1984]

I'd rather build space ships than war machines.

[Matt Collins]

NASA should be abolished and folded back into the military as part of our defense (ICBMs still exist). Exploration of space should be done under a defensive strategy unless the private sector wishes to compete in which case it's free to do so.


The Apollo program was one of the few government programs in which provided a HUGE payoff on the initial investment. The technology we received from the US space program is now a part of our everyday life. But again, it should be part of military exploration and defense, not a civil organization.

[Mesogen]

Here's where I part from the mainstream Ron Paul supporter.

There is no profit motive to exploring space and there won't be for a long time, except maybe tourism. But I feel like space exploration is totally necessary to benefit future generations. (The same goes for a lot of scientific research). I believe the government has a crucial role here.

Exploration and research are vital to the overall "human endeavor," and in this area there is a great need for pooled resources.

The robotic planetary missions overall in the past 20-30 years have been a resounding success and cost way less than the money pit called the space shuttle.

Yes, good point, but we are talking in the 1950s and 1960s, long before the Personal Computer revolution, which is a big part in making private space exploration a reality.

Please explain this.

What would make it a reality is a reliable return mechanism that didn't center on braking from orbital velocity by burning through the atmosphere. This technology does not exist.

NASA is one of the largest expenses in the budget. It would probably undergo serious cuts, especially since its contributions aren't extremely important considering their costs. Why did we have to shoot a rocket at a comet, again?

To help explain the origins and development of the solar system.

Whether you think so or not, this is very important. Not everything is about profit.


I'm not saying that NASA couldn't use an overhaul. There is PLENTY of waste, but to scrap it entirely would be foolish.

[Matt Collins]

NASA is one of the largest expenses in the budget. It would probably undergo serious cuts, especially since its contributions aren't extremely important considering their costs. Why did we have to shoot a rocket at a comet, again?

Obviously you have never seen the US budget. NASA gets less then 1/2 of 1 penny out of every dollar that goes to Washington. To say that it's one of the largest expenses in the budget is a very ignorant statement.

Social programs are the largest with the military coming in #2.

[ChrisM]

Obviously you have never seen the US budget. NASA gets less then 1/2 of 1 penny out of every dollar that goes to Washington. To say that it's one of the largest expenses in the budget is a very ignorant statement.

Social programs are the largest with the military coming in #2.

I was assuming we all here knew that social and defense spending was in a far first, but I should also have known what they say about assuming... Sorry about that.

[Gee]

Whether you think so or not, this is very important. Not everything is about profit.

More accurately, not everything is about money. People place different values on different things. The "profit" one gains from space exploration might be greater in value to that individual than a week's pay - or it might not. Its up to the individual. That is why the only moral way to conduct space exploration which does not generate profit is to fund it with donations, and not thievery.

Though I'd agree that military spending is justifiable, if there is a need for it (I really think there is a limit to sane defense spending).

[Mesogen]

More accurately, not everything is about money. People place different values on different things. The "profit" one gains from space exploration might be greater in value to that individual than a week's pay - or it might not. Its up to the individual. That is why the only moral way to conduct space exploration which does not generate profit is to fund it with donations, and not thievery.

Though I'd agree that military spending is justifiable, if there is a need for it (I really think there is a limit to sane defense spending).

But we should fund our military through thievery? Or donations?

[kimosabi]

At the speed the planet is getting wiped out, we should be getting permanent space colony's ASAP.

[ChrisM]

At the speed the planet is getting wiped out, we should be getting permanent space colony's ASAP.

Or we could fix the planet.

I could argue that at the speed the third world is getting wiped out, the third world population should be immigrating to the first world ASAP. Or we could fix the third world.

[Kuldebar]

Privatize space...

Space exploration is too important to be yet another government program.


KINGS OF THE
HIGH FRONTIER

http://www.bereshith.com/frontier.htm

http://www.nuketown.com/node/2011

Three-time Prometheus Award winner Victor Koman (Millennium: Weeds), who sicced an assassin on God in The Jehovah Contract and imploded the abortion controversy in Solomon's Knife, brings us his epic novel of humanity's next stage of evolution: the jump into Space.

Tammy Reis, beautiful NASA Space Shuttle commander, works for the most highly funded, technologically advanced space program in the world. So why do nightmares of the Challenger disaster haunt her sleep? And why is NASA incapable of recapturing the stunning successes it once achieved?

Visionary spacecraft designer Gerry Cooper struggles at his tiny rocket company in the Mojave Desert. Who in the world wants him stopped -- or dead?

One-armed billionaire playboy Laurence Poubelle hopes to build his own orbital X-15. Can his keen marketing skills overcome a nation hostile to wealth and contemptuous of adventure?

Meanwhile, the horror of the Challenger tragedy threatens to repeat itself on the launch pad at Cape Canaveral. Standing at ground zero, NASA engineer Jack Lundy races the countdown to prevent the deadliest space disaster of all.

While bureaucrats and businessmen publicly battle for the high ground, a young descendant of the legendary Davy Crockett secretly constructs a single-stage-to-orbit rocket deep inside an abandoned warehouse in the South Bronx. Will he and his NYU classmates survive when NORAD detects the launch that blows the lid off the greatest conspiracy in the history of mankind?

Tammy Reis -- stripped of her astronaut wings for defending herself against a congressman's zero-gravity rape -- is recruited by the National Security Agency to infiltrate the stronghold of a er-rich smuggler who schemes to place a massive space station into orbit with a single, spectacular launch. When she discovers the true nature of his secret plan, she faces an impossible choice between duty to her government or freedom from her -- and humanity's -- nightmare.

[SeanEdwards]

Or we could fix the third world.

'Fix', as in neuter? I like it!

Seriously though, space technology and exploration is an important part of national defense, which is a Constitutionally authorized role of the Federal government.

In addition, Earth strikes from stellar objects are a threat we should take seriously. We're surrounded by evidence of these devestating events, and for the first time in Human history we have the real potential to be able to do something about these things now. The likelihood of a dinosaur killer hitting in our lifetimes may be small, but it's the kind of thing we'd be wise to get prepared for, just in case.

Lastly, this is freakin priceless right here:

http://seds.org/hst/M16Full.html

[kimosabi]

Or we could fix the planet.

I could argue that at the speed the third world is getting wiped out, the third world population should be immigrating to the first world ASAP. Or we could fix the third world.

The thing that disturbs me the most is these apparent Chemtrails.

If they are spraying stuff into the atmosphere, what the hell are they spreaying, and more importantly, why????

[ChrisM]

The thing that disturbs me the most is these apparent Chemtrails.

If they are spraying stuff into the atmosphere, what the hell are they spreaying, and more importantly, why????

I wouldn't call them apparent chemtrails. So far, the chemtrail theory has about as much credibility as most other theories here.

Is it just me or is Ron Paul a conspiracy theorist magnet? Maybe the theorists are more vocal than the non-theorists...

[SeanEdwards]

, what the hell are they spreaying,

It's monkey sperm.

[Gee]

But we should fund our military through thievery? Or donations?

Under our current constitution, it can be funded by thievery. America is hardly set up for an anarcho-capitalist form of government where all taxes are voluntary exchanges. But at least our constitution is a contract between 3/4ths of the people and the government, and it allows spending for the "general defense".

[angelatc]

Yes, good point, but we are talking in the 1950s and 1960s, long before the Personal Computer revolution, which is a big part in making private space exploration a reality.

I can't find a quote, but I remember reading an article that claimed the original moon missions didn't have as much total computer power as a 1998 laptop had.

No reason to think the private sector couldn't afford computers then either.

But what about the land? If a private firm had made it to the moon first, would they then own the moon?

[PatriotOne]

I wouldn't call them apparent chemtrails. So far, the chemtrail theory has about as much credibility as most other theories here.

Is it just me or is Ron Paul a conspiracy theorist magnet? Maybe the theorists are more vocal than the non-theorists...

They are quite real Chris. Happens in my area 4 or 5 days a week these days. The question isn't if they are doing it anymore, the question is what/why there are doing it. That's where the "theories' come in.

[PatriotOne]

Most Americans take great pride and a sense of awe when they view the photos of men walking upon the surface of the moon.

However the Space Race was notoriously expensive, and was called by many as a waste of taxpayer dollars.

If Ron Paul was a congressman during the space race, what do you think his position on the space race would have been? Let the free market take care of it?

I would hope that Dr. Paul would back Carol Rosin's (President of the Insitute for Cooperation for Space) position on the space program. She wants to get away from "the militarization of space and creation of space weapons" and use the progam for peaceful purposes and to benefit mankind as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Rosin

[ChrisM]

They are quite real Chris. Happens in my area 4 or 5 days a week these days. The question isn't if they are doing it anymore, the question is what/why there are doing it. That's where the "theories' come in.

Contrails that look different from other contrails? Imagine that...

[PatriotOne]

Contrails that look different from other contrails? Imagine that...

???

You don't see a difference between:



versus things like this?

[richard1984]

If they are spraying stuff into the atmosphere, what the hell are they spreaying, and more importantly, why????

I've heard about cemtrails before, though I don't remember where. Seems like they were spraying them out west somewhere (like Utah or something...I really don't remember), and supposedly (according to one of the theories) the chemtrails are supposed to affect the weather/climate. So I guess it's kind of like DDT, but for weather instead of insects.

I think it might be an experimental anti-global warming type of thing. (i.e., not good...)

At least, that's what I remember hearing once before a while back. I have researched it, though.

[SeanEdwards]

She wants to get away from "the militarization of space and creation of space weapons" and use the progam for peaceful purposes and to benefit mankind as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Rosin

What, is she some kind of hippy? Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya? No thanks. We should colonize the moon and turn it into a big orbital death star.

[PatriotOne]

What, is she some kind of hippy? Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya? No thanks. We should colonize the moon and turn it into a big orbital death star.

Ummm yeah. Just some hippy nut :

Dr. Carol Sue Rosin (b. March 29, 1944 in Wilmington, Delaware) is an award-winning educator, author, leading aerospace executive and space and missile defense consultant. She is a former spokesperson for Wernher von Braun and has consulted to a number of companies, organizations, government departments and the intelligence community. She is the current President of the Institute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS) which she co-founded with Alfred Webre. Dr. Rosin has received the support of various prominent individuals such as U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich [1][2], and Hon. Paul Hellyer, a former Canadian Minister of National Defence. She is also a witness for The Disclosure Project. [3]

Rest here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_r...ons_consultant

[PatriotOne]

I've heard about cemtrails before, though I don't remember where. Seems like they were spraying them out west somewhere (like Utah or something...I really don't remember), and supposedly (according to one of the theories) the chemtrails are supposed to affect the weather/climate. So I guess it's kind of like DDT, but for weather instead of insects.

I think it might be an experimental anti-global warming type of thing. (i.e., not good...)

At least, that's what I remember hearing once before a while back. I have researched it, though.

It's much bigger than that. This is going on all over the world and has been for more than 10 years now. It's worth your time to do some further research on it.