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Thread: Is Putin winning the war ?

  1. #1

    Is Putin winning the war ?

    Is the West just winning the battle and Putin the war ?

    To me Putin has always been someone I regarded highly in terms of Sun-Tzu behaviour and general tactics. Do I agree, not per se, do I think my personal opinion changes facts, no I'm too realistic for that...

    My question is, is the invasion of Ukraine a deliberate attempt to destroy the Western economies as the Western response is all too predictable.

    Discuss...
    "I am a bird"



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  3. #2
    I don't really know what winning means. I expect that Russia and Ukraine will end up making some kind of peace agreement that makes concessions to both sides.

    But no matter how that shakes out, the real winner will be the MIC.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  4. #3
    Putin invaded because reintegrating eastern Ukraine was a long term goal of his, the timing was right, and the US was weak.

    I don't think crushing the US economy was a primary goal. More of a happy, predictable, side effect.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

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  5. #4
    So my thoughts here are that there's nothing to get for Putin from Ukraine apart from misery. However, what the West is doing is destroying itself economically in response... I'm paying almost double for gas now, everything else is up 15-20% but wages are obviously not tracking that. The East still has little difficulty with Russia.

    It's quite simple, you win battles by killing more of the enemy than they kill of you. You win wars by influencing the means of production of whomever you are fighting until they no longer want to play. Unfortunately Russia is used to a lot of hardship, so they are good at this. That's how I see it. It's a meat grinder, but of a different sort.
    "I am a bird"

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Is the West just winning the battle and Putin the war ?

    To me Putin has always been someone I regarded highly in terms of Sun-Tzu behaviour and general tactics. Do I agree, not per se, do I think my personal opinion changes facts, no I'm too realistic for that...

    My question is, is the invasion of Ukraine a deliberate attempt to destroy the Western economies as the Western response is all too predictable.

    Discuss...
    Henry Kissinger, no "peace dove", recently said that Ukraine will likely have to give up some territory. Crimea and the Donbass. If that's all Putin wants (and I suspect it is) then he's close to "winning." Of course the U.S. media will spin it as "Putin was stopped from taking all of Ukraine thanks to Biden's assistance."
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Putin invaded because reintegrating eastern Ukraine was a long term goal of his, the timing was right, and the US was weak.

    I don't think crushing the US economy was a primary goal. More of a happy, predictable, side effect.
    You don't think the US actively pushed Ukraine to provoke Russia to attack?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You don't think the US actively pushed Ukraine to provoke Russia to attack?
    They did certainly. The US engineered the maidan coup which is what kicked off this conflict. That's largely what I meant by the timing was right. When Russia "invaded" Crimea, it was under immediate threat of being attacked. And when he "invaded" Donbass, it had been attacked for 8 years.

    Putin definitely wanted to annex Donbass as well in 2014. At the time I don't think he thought could get away with it, and stuck with Crimea as it was more strategically important.

    Putin however has wanted to reintegrate eastern Ukraine since at least 2001. The US meddling in Ukrainian affairs gave him the opportunity to do so.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 06-03-2022 at 11:22 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    They did certainly. The US engineered the maidan coup which is what kicked off this conflict. That's largely what I meant by the timing was right. When Russia "invaded" Crimea, it was under immediate threat of being attacked. And when he "invaded" Donbass, it had been attacked for 8 years.

    Putin definitely wanted to annex Donbass as well in 2014. At the time I don't think he thought could get away with it, and stuck with Crimea as it was more strategically important.
    OK. Then I'm not sure that the US being weak was really an instigating factor. The US was to some extent pulling the strings.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    OK. Then I'm not sure that the US being weak was really an instigating factor. The US was to some extent pulling the strings.
    The US being weak, may be why he chose to liberate Donbass now, versus 2014
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    They did certainly. The US engineered the maidan coup which is what kicked off this conflict. That's largely what I meant by the timing was right. When Russia "invaded" Crimea, it was under immediate threat of being attacked. And when he "invaded" Donbass, it had been attacked for 8 years.

    Putin definitely wanted to annex Donbass as well in 2014. At the time I don't think he thought could get away with it, and stuck with Crimea as it was more strategically important.
    I think that after 2014, Putin definitely wanted a peaceful agreement regarding DPR/LPR. In fact, DPR/LPR forces, with Russian volunteer assistance, defeated the Ukrainian army and had them encircled.

    At that point, Ukraine agreed to peace talks and the Minsk Agreement was made because their army was going to be decimated.

    After the agreement, Ukraine proceeded to ignore it and continue attacks against the people of DPR/LPR.

    And nobody in the West gave two shats about it.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Henry Kissinger, no "peace dove", recently said that Ukraine will likely have to give up some territory. Crimea and the Donbass. If that's all Putin wants (and I suspect it is) then he's close to "winning." Of course the U.S. media will spin it as "Putin was stopped from taking all of Ukraine thanks to Biden's assistance."
    Yes that's pretty much exactly how it's being spinned. That Putin will have to "settle" for Eastern Ukraine only. Which of course was his only goal to begin with
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Yes that's pretty much exactly how it's being spinned. That Putin will have to "settle" for Eastern Ukraine only. Which of course was his only goal to begin with
    His demands in December went beyond that, and included removal of all NATO troops and weapons from Poland and other countries that entered after 1997.

    I don't believe NATO will ever give in to that demand.

    But the rest of what he demanded, he may well end up with.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    His demands in December went beyond that, and included removal of all NATO troops and weapons from Poland and other countries that entered after 1997.

    I don't believe NATO will ever give in to that demand.

    But the rest of what he demanded, he may well end up with.
    He's going to demand such things but he knows as well as you or I it is not realistic.

    As far as what it will take to end the conflict in Ukraine, Putin has only ever wanted the Eastern territory, and assurances of security in those regions.

    The longer this conflict goes on, the more "assurances" may be needed.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  16. #14
    Okay, secondary question.. Do you agree the Western response to any move from Russia is predictable ?
    "I am a bird"

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Okay, secondary question.. Do you agree the Western response to any move from Russia is predictable ?
    If by western response you mean giving tens of billions of dollars to weapons manufacturers, then yes.

    26:35

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  18. #16
    Neo cons didn’t get jailed or permanently removed from US foreign power structure

    They have been hell bent for war with Russkies

    & here we are



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    My question is, is the invasion of Ukraine a deliberate attempt to destroy the Western economies as the Western response is all too predictable.
    Behind the scenes, Putin is the best of buddies with The Hague, London and Washington.
    This is a deliberate attempt to cause hyperinflation to implement the Great Reset, with the help of WEF young global leader Putin.

    Remember Putin coming to the Heineken House during the Winter Olympics to show his respect to prins pils or Putin's daughter living in the Netherlands (close to the Hague)?

    Of course we all have to pay, and this doesn't mean that Ukrainians are better off with Chabad buddy Putin then with WEF global leader Zelensky.
    A couple of days ago I read the news that the Kingdom of the Netherlands imports much less products from Russia but pays about the same amount of money for it...
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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Okay, secondary question.. Do you agree the Western response to any move from Russia is predictable ?
    What's funny is that the West trying to pretend that the Nazis in Ukraine aren't Nazis is so ridiculously absurd, but even that part is sadly predictable.

    It comes straight out of the Clown World playbook. Putin is evil (possibly worse than Hitler aka Trump) so any means to the end are justified. Even praising literal Nazis if that's what it takes.

    (And Putin is evil, because, well, Trump)
    Last edited by TheTexan; 06-03-2022 at 01:41 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #19
    I never had any doubt Putin would win. By win I mean completing his stated goals of securing Donbass and Crimea and destroying the neo-nazis.

  23. #20
    Control of oil/gas always 2nd biggest factor in major war.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post

    (And Putin is evil, because, well, Trump)
    that is the level of discourse I encounter most.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I never had any doubt Putin would win. By win I mean completing his stated goals of securing Donbass and Crimea and destroying the neo-nazis.
    If it was war,, it would have been done long ago,, and they might be getting lights on in a few places..

    It is more a Police action that any adventures the US has called that..

    They are getting Hostages released.. not destroying populated areas. or infrastructure any more than necessary..

    They are most assuredly Documenting Foreign Involvement,,and War Crimes.. having already presented Evidence to the UN.

    Ukraine Nazis are only winning in game channel chat.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    I've noticed a change in western media reporting lately. They are starting admit Russia is winning.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    So my thoughts here are that there's nothing to get for Putin from Ukraine apart from misery. However, what the West is doing is destroying itself economically in response... I'm paying almost double for gas now, everything else is up 15-20% but wages are obviously not tracking that. The East still has little difficulty with Russia.

    It's quite simple, you win battles by killing more of the enemy than they kill of you. You win wars by influencing the means of production of whomever you are fighting until they no longer want to play. Unfortunately Russia is used to a lot of hardship, so they are good at this. That's how I see it. It's a meat grinder, but of a different sort.
    What I'm paying for gas here in Southern Indiana is the direct result of democrats and has nothing to do with Ukraine. Is he winning ? From what I can see probably not. I'll base that on the cost they have pd for what they have gotten and assume they are not winners simply by not already having won what they wanted by now . Will he win ? Maybe , maybe not .
    Last edited by oyarde; 06-04-2022 at 08:05 PM.
    Do something Danke



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If by western response you mean giving tens of billions of dollars to weapons manufacturers, then yes.
    That and economic sanctions which arguably hurt us more than Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    Behind the scenes, Putin is the best of buddies with The Hague, London and Washington.
    This is a deliberate attempt to cause hyperinflation to implement the Great Reset, with the help of WEF young global leader Putin.
    I doubt that Putin is a fan of that but I'll allow you to entertain the thought.

    Remember Putin coming to the Heineken House during the Winter Olympics to show his respect to prins pils or Putin's daughter living in the Netherlands (close to the Hague)?
    Being friends on a personal level is a form of diplomacy. It does not mean anything. Maybe our King has a reasonable relationship with Putin on a personal level, IDK, that doesn't mean anything for the world of diplomacy though, it's only a foothold. Similar to his daughter living in the Netherlands, what does it matter.

    Of course we all have to pay, and this doesn't mean that Ukrainians are better off with Chabad buddy Putin then with WEF global leader Zelensky.
    A couple of days ago I read the news that the Kingdom of the Netherlands imports much less products from Russia but pays about the same amount of money for it...
    Very probable. Similarly, sanctions on business do not stop business, reduce them maybe... But as long as there are countries that do not have these sanctions, lots of trade will flow through these countries. I won't name any countries but I expect them to be in the Middle East. It just means goods are still available but at higher logistical cost and a markup from a middleman.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I never had any doubt Putin would win. By win I mean completing his stated goals of securing Donbass and Crimea and destroying the neo-nazis.
    I'm just going to call the start of WW3 then. Donbass and Crimea may look like an end point and I think that may be the intention. However, the added side effect of the Western response might be all too profitable for Putin. Russia is a proud country that is not ashamed of its hardships. Maybe not all the people agree with that but I have met plenty of Russians in my life and I can generally get along as I understand they see the world differently. The one thing I'm sure about is that Russia or Putin is not looking to take over the world, just to re-align the power base.

    It's a response to the EU in a way.. The EU says it needs to become stronger, wants to form an army and everything... The reason they give is Russia mostly, so why exactly should we be surprised. My point from this topic however is that 'the West' is too stupid to have any kind of real strategy in all of this as that's not how the system works.

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    What I'm paying for gas here in Southern Indiana is the direct result of democrats and has nothing to do with Ukraine. Is he winning ? From what I can see probably not. I'll base that on the cost they have pd for what they have gotten and assume they are not winners simply by not already having won what they wanted by now . Will he win ? Maybe , maybe not .
    It's a worldwide market but local events of course change things as well. I am for sure paying almost double for fuel that I paid a year and half ago, and it's because of Ukraine for the most part... (I drive a diesel but it's the same story there, even worse really)
    Last edited by luctor-et-emergo; 06-06-2022 at 05:09 PM.
    "I am a bird"

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    I doubt that Putin is a fan of that but I'll allow you to entertain the thought.

    Being friends on a personal level is a form of diplomacy. It does not mean anything. Maybe our King has a reasonable relationship with Putin on a personal level, IDK, that doesn't mean anything for the world of diplomacy though, it's only a foothold. Similar to his daughter living in the Netherlands, what does it matter.
    Yes of course it matters.
    Putin was installed by the same Cabal - the European Carolingian nobility - that controls the world, often using their "Hoffjude" to do their dirty work....


    Tevfik Arif was/is associated with Trump, Erdogan, Kazakhstan and Putin, and while not a "Jew" very close to the Chabad. One of Arif’s companies (that were heavily involved in money laundering) was Rixos with links to Viktor Pinchuk’s business partner Rinat Akhmetov...

    Musa Bazhaev, head of Alliance Group in Russia, was on Arif's Savarona boat with the prostitutes, and is close to both Alexander Mashkevitch and Vladimir Putin.
    See Musa Bazhaev with Putin.


    See from left to right: Bazhaev, Alexander Mashkevitch, and Tevfik Arif.



    Aras Agalarov was “Putin’s Builder”, who was hired to construct the 2012 Asian-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Vladivostok. Later in 2013, Putin would award Agalarov the “Order of Honour of the Russian Federation” medal.
    Aras' son, Emin Agalarov, married the daughter of the president of Azerbaijan, Leyla Aliyeva. Emin was allowed to do a performance at the Moscow Miss Universe show.
    See Rotem Rosen, Aras Agalarov, the Donald and Alex Sapir in Moscow, 2013.



    See the picture at the US Open (clockwise from top left): Michael Kives, Wendi Deng (Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife), unknown guest, John Hess, Princess Beatrice, Karlie Kloss (now Jared's sister-in-law), Dasha Zhukova (estranged or ex wife of Putin oligarch, Chabad-Lubavitcher Roman Abramovich, the close friend of Nat Rothschild), David Geffen (Clinton friend), Michael Hess, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner.



    See Eric Trump, Tevfik Arif, Donald Trump Jr., Ivanka Trump, Donald Trump, Tamir Sapir, Alex Sapir, Julius Schwarz and Zina Sapir at Trump Soho Construction Site, 19 September 2007.

    Putin-Erdogan-Trump-and the Chabad
    Last edited by Firestarter; 06-06-2022 at 11:49 PM.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  31. #27
    Russia Enjoys Windfall Energy Profits Amid War In Ukraine
    https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...ar-in-ukraine/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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  32. #28
    Considering Russia is a superpower, I see no rhyme or reason that they shouldn't be able to win the war.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  33. #29
    European Shipping Companies Continue To Profit In Deals With Russia

    https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...s-with-russia/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Russia Stops Noble Gas Export To The West – More Semiconductor Woes

    https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...onductor-woes/


    The US Is Encouraging The Purchase Of Russian Fertilizer

    https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...an-fertilizer/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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