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Thread: LP Mises Caucus features in SPLC "Hatewatch" hit piece

  1. #1

    LP Mises Caucus features in SPLC "Hatewatch" hit piece

    This is some pretty lame and disappointing stuff, actually - just a bunch of innuendo and "guilt by association" bull$#@! (for example, notice how frequently the author bandies casual accusations of racism, etc. without bothering to cite any actual evidence beyond things like hearsay from the MC's opponents in the LP).

    Dave Smith and "Part of the Problem" get an entire section of the article.

    Mises Caucus: Could It Sway the Libertarian Party to the Hard Right?
    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...rty-hard-right
    Creede Newton (25 May 2022)

    Members of the of the Libertarian Party (LP) are concerned about the Mises Caucus (MC) winning control of the party at the May 26 national convention, ushering in an era of collaboration between the U.S.’s largest third party and the hard-right movement inside the Republican Party.

    High-profile MC members espouse hateful rhetoric and collaborate with white nationalists and individuals linked to former President Donald Trump. Should they win control of the LP, they will take over a party that averages over 1% of the vote in national elections, peaking at 3.3% in 2016. Commentators argue libertarian candidates cost Trump at least three crucial swing states in the 2020 election – Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin – all of which President Joe Biden won by less than 1%.

    Collaboration between the LP and hard-right wing of the Republican party would stop this from happening again, LP members told Hatewatch.

    The MC has already won control or decision-making influence over several state parties. These include such swing states as Arizona, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Colorado. Florida and California are also close to the MC.

    Now that the MC has risen to power within the LP, some critics say they fear bigotry and bullying will flood LP ranks.

    LP donations have missed targets and members are fleeing the party, according to David Valente, a former alternate member of the Libertarian National Committee (LNC) and LP member since 2012.

    “The purpose of what is going on with the MC … is to sabotage the LP to sideline it over the next few years for Donald Trump,” Valente told Hatewatch.

    Valente resigned from the LNC on Oct. 2, 2021, citing health concerns. Rising bigotry and harassment inside the LP, stemming from the MC, also contributed to his resignation, he said.

    Angela McArdle, chair of the Libertarian Party of Los Angeles County, Mises Caucus member and candidate for the 2022 LP national chair, told Hatewatch bigotry is not part of the MC strategy. “We’re grateful for the opportunity to help people let go of collectivism as they search for the truth and find their way to liberty. We will always fight for the freedom of all people."

    Trump's orbit

    The MC has adopted a hard-right approach to attract supporters, mimicking the “paleo strategy” from the early 1990s created by Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell. Rothbard and Rockwell used the strategy to appeal to far-right conservatives and authored a newsletter that trafficked in anti-immigrant talking points, race science and anti-LGBTQ ideas.

    The MC and its members have argued for limited immigration enforced by property owners on the border and police action against Black Lives Matter and antifa protesters. They’ve also made anti-trans remarks. Mises-controlled Montana removed the right to abortion from its platform.

    Ashley Shade, the former chair of the Massachusetts LP, resigned her post after her state party expelled Mises Caucus members over claims of harassment and demands to hold an early convention. Shade, who is trans, asserted in an April 10 Facebook post that MC bigotry and harassment had prompted her recent absence from social media.

    Shade wrote she “was successful in teaching many people about Trans rights and issues,” but she “experienced more harrasment [sic] and threats than support.” Shade called the MC a “cult” and a “tool of the Republican Party.”

    MC positions mirror the Trump-aligned hard right. But Libertarians, who view personal freedom and non-aggression as their core beliefs, have historically held pro-migration, pro-choice and pro-LGBTQ positions.

    The MC has links to Trump’s orbit. John Hudak, an LP member and former member of the Mises Caucus, shared screenshots of private Mises Caucus-linked groups on social media. Hudak also runs Fakertarians, a blog dedicated to addressing bigotry in the LP.

    Screenshot show Michael Heise, the MC chairman from Pennsylvania, claims to have received donations and solicited advice from Patrick Byrne, former CEO of Overstock.com.

    Byrne was a regular visitor to the White House in the waning days of the Trump administration. He spoke at the Jan. 6, 2021, Trump rally in D.C. that preceded the insurrection. He authored a book based on spurious claims that election fraud cost Trump the 2020 election and was the main financier of the audit of the Arizona’s Maricopa County election results.

    In one screenshot, Heise announced a “private meeting” with Byrne and others on July 11, 2018.

    Heise claimed in a Sept. 12, 2019, post that Byrne donated $5,000 to the caucus in 2017 after the two met at the Nexus conference, a gathering dedicated to a cryptocurrency Collin Cantrell founded. Cantrell’s father, Jim, is on the Mises political action committee advisory board and the Mises Caucus board. Jim Cantrell was on the founding team of Elon Musk’s SpaceX.

    Heise said in the Sept. 12, 2019, post he would contact Byrne for another meeting.

    Byrne did not respond to Hatewatch’s request for comment.

    In March, Heise nominated Daryl Brooks for the LP candidate for Pennsylvania governor after the caucus swept leadership elections at the state convention.

    Brooks has run for state and local office in New Jersey as a Libertarian since 2009.

    Trump’s former attorney and adviser, Rudy Giuliani, called Brooks as his first witness alleging widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election at the infamous press conference outside the Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Philadelphia.

    Brooks is also a convicted sex offender. His nomination was invalidated due to residency requirements, according to LP insiders who spoke to Hatewatch.

    Heise did not respond to Hatewatch’s request for comment sent to the email listed on the MC website.

    Hard-right rise

    The MC first made national headlines in June 2021, when members of the Mises Caucus won control of the New Hampshire state party, prompting an internal power struggle and resignations.

    An August 2021 report on the power struggle prepared by the LP noted “several Libertarians” were concerned by talk of Steve Bannon working with the Mises Caucus to “take the Libertarian Party off the ballot in New Hampshire and other states,” which Heise rejected.

    The New Hampshire Mises Caucus includes Jeremy ["War Is Gay"] Kauffman, who authors anti-trans tweets on his own account. Kauffman was a spearheading member of the New Hampshire takeover and is the LPNH nominee for a New Hampshire senate seat. Kauffman is CEO of LBRY, a decentralized, blockchain-based network service. LBRY owns Odysee, a YouTube alternative that hosts far-right and neo-Nazi content.

    Three LP members also claimed Kauffman and Bannon met in Massachusetts after Biden was inaugurated.

    Bannon did not respond to Hatewatch’s request for comment.

    Kauffman did not respond to Hatewatch’s request for comment sent through his campaign website.

    When Vice President Kamala Harris tweeted in support of Biden signing an anti-lynching bill that made the heinous act a hate crime, Kauffman responded, “As a Senator, I promise to legalize lynching anyone who works for the IRS.”

    The MC has also welcomed antisemitic speakers. The California MC invited Bryan “HotepJesus” Sharpe, a prominent figure in the Hotep movement, to speak at an event in May 2021.

    Sharpe makes antisemitic remarks on social media and espouses conspiracy theories.

    McArdle defended inviting Sharpe at the Alabama LP State Convention. McArdle “rejected the premise of” an audience member’s question about Sharpe’s invitation to speak. McArdle called Sharpe a “truth seeker.”

    In response to a question about Sharpe’s antisemitism, McArdle told Hatewatch the “Libertarian Party and broader liberty movement have always been led by and included brilliant Jewish people, and we welcome members of the black community to our movement, as well.”

    'Part of the Problem'

    Critics of the Mises Caucus expect the group to nominate comedian Dave Smith for president. Smith, too, has floated the idea.

    Smith, who is Jewish, has long invited extremists and hard right and fringe figures – including HotepJesus – on his podcast, “Part of the Problem” (PotP). Smith has also appeared on podcasts hosted by extremists.

    Smith posts PotP episodes on his YouTube channel, which has over 77,000 subscribers. Recent videos receive roughly 25,000 views, as of early April 2022.

    Smith’s fans frequently post racist and antisemitic thoughts online. A source gave Hatewatch screenshots of “Part of the Problem Inner Circle,” a group dedicated to the podcast hosted on MeWe, an alternative to Facebook popular among libertarians.

    The posts include racist, antisemitic and homophobic slurs. They also shared links to articles supportive of Trump’s “Stop the Steal” conspiracy theory that claimed Democrats stole the 2020 election. The conspiracy theory culminated in the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

    Smith is active in the group, though screenshots of Smith’s activity that Hatewatch reviewed were taken after the slur-filled posts. Hudak, a former member of the group, said members post racist and antisemitic posts “all the time. He knows his fans are like this.”

    Smith did not respond to Hatewatch’s request for comment sent through his personal website.

    Smith has appeared alongside white nationalist Nick Fuentes three times, most recently in December 2021, on hard-right podcaster Ethan Ralph’s “Killstream.” Ralph was convicted earlier this year of disseminating “revenge porn.”

    Smith also twice invited Fuentes to appear on PotP. Fuentes uses antisemitic tropes, engages in holocaust denial and openly uses racial epithets to refer to Black people.

    Fuentes and Smith debate their respective viewpoints, with Smith arguing for hard-right libertarian viewpoints while Fuentes advocates for using the U.S. government to protect the interests of white people.

    Smith pushed back on the idea of a white ethnostate during the 2021 debate. However, he has leaned on the history of Mises figures like Murray Rothbard working with “paleoconservatives” such as Pat Buchanan, whom Fuentes and his followers admire.

    During their first debate, Smith argued for limited immigration, “freedom of association” that would allow workplace and housing discrimination and limiting migration to combat demographic change.

    Smith made similar remarks in a podcast with Michelle Malkin, a conservative commentator with longstanding ties to the racist right. Smith’s YouTube channel made private its copy of their discussion.

    Smith has also appeared on white supremacist Stefan Molyneaux’s podcast. Molyneaux promotes “scientific racism,” the unfounded notion that intelligence varies across racial groups.

    The appearance caused controversy among his supporters. The comic addressed the issue in a podcast, which is now private. Hatewatch obtained a copy of the episode.

    Smith acknowledged concerns but said the notion there are racial differences in intelligence is “scientific fact.”

    Researchers and scientist overwhelmingly agree genes alone do not provide an explanation for differences in intelligence between individuals. Geneticist and neuroscientist Kevin Mitchell wrote in The Guardian in 2018 that differences in intelligence between races are “inherently and deeply implausible.”

    Three days after the deadly August 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Smith hosted neo-Nazi Christopher Cantwell.

    Smith told Cantwell on his podcast he was “sympathetic to the alt-right to a large degree” but he disagreed with the alt-right’s tactics.

    Smith said the “left-wing interpretation of you guys is complete bullsh*t.” During the conversation, Smith made anti-trans remarks, calling transgender people “liars.”

    'No tent big enough'

    The conflict between Mises libertarians and elements of the LP began in 2017. Jeff Deist, the president of the extremist Mises Institute, wrote a blog calling for a “new libertarian” to replace the establishment leadership of the LP.

    Deist wrote that “blood and soil … still matter to people,” and libertarians should not ignore it. Deist did not elaborate on his meaning in selecting that phrase, but “blood and soil” is a known hate slogan with origins in Nazi Germany that white nationalists still use today.

    The Mises Institute published the blog on July 28, 2017, two weeks before white nationalists chanted “blood and soil” in Charlottesville ahead of the deadly rally.

    Nicholas Sarwark, chair of the LP from 2014 to 2020, signed an open letter against fascism in the libertarian movement after Charlottesville. Several organizers of the white nationalist rally, Cantwell, Michael Peinovich and Augustus Invictus all claimed to be libertarians at some point.

    The open letter condemned “any attempt to connect white supremacy and fascism to libertarianism.”

    Tom Woods, a Mises Institute fellow, co-founder of the neo-Confederate League of the South and board member of the Mises Caucus, rejected the letter, denying there was a growing bigotry problem within the LP. This prompted an online debate between himself and Sarwark.

    In an April 10 post, Fakertarians accused Woods of grooming his ex-wife when he was 26 and she was 15. Woods has denied this.

    Smith, who openly admires Woods, debated Sarwark on the blood and soil question in 2019. In a YouTube video titled “Who’s allowed in?”, Smith proposed a bigger tent for the LP by asking Sarwark if he does not “want to bring [racists] into a philosophy that believes in peace?”

    Sarwark said no, not until they disavowed their racism.

    Sarwark told Hatewatch the MC wants “to change fundamental aspects that are definitional to Libertarian philosophy, to suit their preferences.”

    In Pennsylvania, Heise’s state, libertarians broke from the LP and formed the Keystone Party, which launched on April 4.

    Sasha Cohen, a Libertarian voters elected as city clerk in DeKalb, Illinois, resigned over what he saw as clear MC bigotry in July 2021, after the New Hampshire controversy.

    Cohen told Hatewatch he wanted the LNC to “do the right thing” and disassociate from the MC-controlled party.

    Cohen said using a “big tent” approach to expanding LP membership is "great in theory,” but the MC strategy closes the party to too many people.

    “There’s no tent big enough to hold racists and people of color,” Cohen said.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·



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  3. #2
    It's no surprise that SPLC has no clue what it's talking about. The Mises Caucus isn't right-wing... its namesake is a Jewish academic who literally fled Europe during the rise of the Nazi party. Mises himself was not especially culturally conservative beyond a personal affect that comes across as slightly grumpy "get off my lawn" snobbery. As far as I can tell, Mises was an evolutionist and was broadly secularist. To call MC "right-wing" -- with all the siegheiling imagery that that term invokes -- is moronic at best. Coming out of the mouth of the SPLC, though, it's desperate and transparent propaganda.

    While MC itself is definitely on the conservative end of the cultural spectrum, I don't think that the MC would make moderns feel uncomfortable. It doesn't emanate from R-Swamp "Christian" conservatism, it's something the DC Swamp has never seen before. It is historically unprecedented. They and their D-Swamp counterparts in the SPLC are right to be afraid. It has the potential to smash the current political status quo.

  4. #3
    What’s that? The Soviet Poverty Lie Center is lying about people and smearing organizations? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

    They should be commended for their part in bringing Soviet Poverty to America, and profiting all along the way. Quite an accomplishment.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  5. #4
    i hate the splc


    there
    i made it ez


    fkoff terrorists
    dontcha have a building to blow up or some other horror?
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  6. #5

  7. #6
    Who the hell takes the SPLC seriously?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  8. #7

    https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/1529656200249344000
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Who the hell takes the SPLC seriously?
    Well, maybe not many, but I'd say the leftists who leave nasty comments on Ron Paul's FB page at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Who the hell takes the SPLC seriously?
    Government apparatchiks and law enforcement.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  12. #10
    Reasonable take: the LPMC NEEDS to swing to the right some more.

    Been telling people that the mainline libertarians and right of center libertarians NEED to work with right wingers in this ongoing war. Battle lines have been drawn and libertarians still floating around need to pick a side. I've picked mine and it's not with the communists.

    You don't have to kiss your allies feet, you don't need to wipe their asses, you just need them for numbers. Libertarians are NOTHING on their own.

    And if slander like this is going to happen anyway, might as well just do what's gonna be best. Libertarians, contrary to popular belief, aren't going to sway or "educate" people who take the SPLC seriously anyway. They aren't the target.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Reasonable take: the LPMC NEEDS to swing to the right some more.

    Been telling people that the mainline libertarians and right of center libertarians NEED to work with right wingers in this ongoing war. Battle lines have been drawn and libertarians still floating around need to pick a side. I've picked mine and it's not with the communists.

    You don't have to kiss your allies feet, you don't need to wipe their asses, you just need them for numbers. Libertarians are NOTHING on their own.

    And if slander like this is going to happen anyway, might as well just do what's gonna be best. Libertarians, contrary to popular belief, aren't going to sway or "educate" people who take the SPLC seriously anyway. They aren't the target.


    "even libertarians"
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-26-2022 at 10:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Libertarians are NOTHING on their own.
    Funny how they've been saying that for decades, and yet they invest unimaginable resources into controlling/containing the message of liberty. Almost like they know that if the ideas of freedom ever start to germinate in the minds of our children, they're doomed. Because that's exactly what it is. They're the ones fighting gravity, not us. Liberty wins by default. The straitjacket of government school indoctrination is the only thing standing between the clown-"elites" and political annihilation, and they know that better than anyone. They are terrified of liberty. Statism loses by default. Liberty wins by default.

    STATISTS ARE NOTHING ON THEIR OWN

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Funny how they've been saying that for decades, and yet they invest unimaginable resources into controlling/containing the message of liberty. Almost like they know that if the ideas of freedom ever start to germinate in the minds of our children, they're doomed. Because that's exactly what it is. They're the ones fighting gravity, not us. Liberty wins by default. The straitjacket of government school indoctrination is the only thing standing between the clown-"elites" and political annihilation, and they know that better than anyone. They are terrified of liberty. Statism loses by default. Liberty wins by default.

    STATISTS ARE NOTHING ON THEIR OWN
    How exactly does one spread those ideas when we vehemently shout down anyone who wants to work with the side the agrees with maybe 50% of the issues as being impure, and yet in the same breath wants us to waste decades of our lives trying to convince people who agree with us on practically nothing (at least, not anymore)?

    I'm all for it if someone thinks working with the left gets us back to sanity, but I hear people say it can be done, and not many doing it. Could it be possibly because they know in their hearts that it is a lost cause?
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-26-2022 at 10:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  16. #14
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #15
    here's (just) a couple of comments from Ron Paul's FB page:
    Christophor Faust
    This site has become the go to place for dumber and especially really stupid dumber. Ron Paul’s idea of Liberty is where the rich rule by their own rules.
    Move to Texas where everybody has the ability to shoot elementary school students. Walmart shoppers too. Got a pandemic, heck we just love it when 6M get sick and 70K die. He yah!!! Got some real heat, how about a blizzard, we can ensure the power fails, keep failing and never stops failing, he yah, he, yah!!!
    …and let’s remember no matter what calamity befalls you, we will endure big business is held unacceptable, and the poor has to pay the bill.
    The really sad thing about this post, is that everything I said is not only true, it’s what Ron Paul believes America liberty should function like. Truly friggin friggin sad!!!
    Walt Hill
    All you Libertarians should move to Russia!
    Bob Herricks

    The left as y'all knew it is gone.

    $#@! these people already and go for the low hanging fruit.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Funny how they've been saying that for decades, and yet they invest unimaginable resources into controlling/containing the message of liberty. Almost like they know that if the ideas of freedom ever start to germinate in the minds of our children, they're doomed. Because that's exactly what it is. They're the ones fighting gravity, not us. Liberty wins by default. The straitjacket of government school indoctrination is the only thing standing between the clown-"elites" and political annihilation, and they know that better than anyone. They are terrified of liberty. Statism loses by default. Liberty wins by default.

    STATISTS ARE NOTHING ON THEIR OWN
    i just wanted to quote that!
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?



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  20. #17
    Has Mises fallen?

    Any organizations left?

    CATO?

    John Birch?

    The National LP goes further Left every day.

    Same with Reason.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    How exactly does one spread those ideas when we vehemently shout down anyone who wants to work with the side the agrees with maybe 50% of the issues as being impure, and yet in the same breath wants us to waste decades of our lives trying to convince people who agree with us on practically nothing (at least, not anymore)?
    Well, if you're saying that the LP is just controlled opposition, I agree. But the Mises Caucus is not or, at least, it didn't originate from the usual R-swamp elites, so it's another kind of thing. Will the R-swamp coopt it, like they have everything else? Perhaps. But let's at least make them fight for it and not just give in at the first sign of difficulty.

    I'm all for it if someone thinks working with the left gets us back to sanity, but I hear people say it can be done, and not many doing it. Could it be possibly because they know in their hearts that it is a lost cause?
    The Left are like the Pharisees. The Republicans/conservatives are Judas. As bad as the Left is, at least they are honest about who and what they are! The Judases, however, are intolerable traitors, because they pretend to be one thing, while they are really something else.

    There is a political revolution coming. It will be unlike any revolution that has ever happened in history. Maybe it won't be tomorrow or the day after. But it's coming. The sheep will not be slaughtered forever. Vengeance is coming, swiftly.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Funny how they've been saying that for decades, and yet they invest unimaginable resources into controlling/containing the message of liberty. Almost like they know that if the ideas of freedom ever start to germinate in the minds of our children, they're doomed. Because that's exactly what it is. They're the ones fighting gravity, not us. Liberty wins by default. The straitjacket of government school indoctrination is the only thing standing between the clown-"elites" and political annihilation, and they know that better than anyone. They are terrified of liberty. Statism loses by default. Liberty wins by default.

    STATISTS ARE NOTHING ON THEIR OWN
    Statists are controlling the day right now, in case you haven't looked out your window. They infest D.C. and many State capitol buildings. They have taken over school boards, etc. They run our universities and control Hollywood. They are everywhere.
    The statists have been winning for longer than we care to admit. Only over the past two years have right wingers began to see their follies by letting these people take over everything and have begun pushing back.

    Here's some basic numbers to further prove my original point (for Oklahoma, my state):

    "According to the report the Republican Party has the largest number of voters at 1,122,582 (50.6%) fallowed[sic] by the Democratic Party at 696,723 (32.4%), Independents (those with no party affiliation) at 381,088 (17.2%), and the Libertarian Party at 17,981 (less than 1%)."

    Source: https://www.fox23.com/news/oklahoma-...ACZ6CSJXJZONI/

    What is less than 1% of the population in my state going to do against the remaining 99%? Especially when we see half of these libertarians are reclusive goobers? What's the popular saying again? Getting a group of libertarians together and agreeing on one thing is like herding cats? Something like that.

    This is what I meant by libertarians are nothing on their own, because they aren't. They'd (we'd) be smart to coalition with the GOP and its branches considering the Dems are moving further left every day. The enemy is a common one and libertarians will be hiding in a corner all by themselves when the time comes. There was a strategy during 2012 to "infiltrate" the GOP, push out the neocon element, and make it a true second party. We faltered in that strategy but if there is any hope left, that's our ticket. At least at state and local levels.

    And by the way, you're not wrong about how at every turn "they" try to turn back the tide of liberty because its contagious to a degree (as was the case with Ron Paul in 08 & 12). That doesn't necessarily mean liberty is the default for everyone or that everyone wants it, because they don't. Plenty to prove that assertion as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Has Mises fallen?

    Any organizations left?

    CATO?

    John Birch?

    The National LP goes further Left every day.

    Same with Reason.
    I don't think Mises has fallen, not yet anyway. All of the rest are co-opted or are surface level muck.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Statists are controlling the day right now, in case you haven't looked out your window.
    So what? Do you gauge the progress of your troops by looking at what the enemy troops control? Or, even worse, reading and believing enemy psyop pamphlets informing you that "we have you surrounded"? Stop drinking enemy Kool-Aid...

    They infest D.C. and many State capitol buildings.
    DC is a swamp (literally) and I don't think anyone will shed any tears if it just happened to slide off into the Atlantic. We never needed DC for anything. The US is a union of 50 states. After establishing their infinity-cash machine in 1913, the Feds have proceeded to act as if they are Literally God. Well, they're not.

    They have taken over school boards, etc.
    They formed the school boards, there was nothing to take over, it was their turf from day one.

    They run our universities and control Hollywood. They are everywhere.
    Yes, I read this pamphlet once. "Give up. We have you surrounded. We are everywhere. Everything is a rich man's trick. We have all the guns and gold. You will be assimilated. Bend over and take the Mark of the Beast. Resistance is futile."



    The statists have been winning for longer than we care to admit.
    Statism has always controlled the State. Obviously. And most of our written records were written by the wealthy... who have always been part of the plutocracy. So, of course, their ideas are almost completely statist. But statism has been ideologically defunct since Jesus came to earth, died and rose again and the disciples took the Gospel to the world. Statism is human statism and, therefore, it is doomed.

    Only over the past two years have right wingers began to see their follies by letting these people take over everything and have begun pushing back.
    Yes, because there were never any freedom or liberation movements before 1822. Hum-dinger...

    What is less than 1% of the population in my state going to do against the remaining 99%? Especially when we see half of these libertarians are reclusive goobers? What's the popular saying again? Getting a group of libertarians together and agreeing on one thing is like herding cats? Something like that.
    These are tired Left-Right Illuminati talking points. The victory of Truth is inevitable because the Truth goes on being true even if 100.0% of people deny it. There is no consensus big enough to refute the Truth. So, even if I am the only man in the world asserting that 2+2=4, my victory is inevitable. Join the side of Truth and stop giving in to enemy demoralization propaganda.



    They'd (we'd) be smart to coalition with the GOP and its branches
    When a traitor has thoroughly proved himself reprobate and incorrigibly treacherous and double-faced, there is no remedy left but to drag him behind the shed and put a bullet in his skull. The GOP is the Judas of Judases and the only purpose that party has served since 1913 is to protect the right-flank of the Federal Reserve and its cadre of alien globalists that have infested DC and every other apparatus of government within the US. Time to burn the traitors, one and all.

    (Yes, that is rhetorical metaphor in case it isn't obvious.)

    libertarians will be hiding in a corner
    The Beast / NWO system is already here, today... I'm not hiding, I see plenty of others like myself who are not hiding.

    Stop drinking the enemy demoralization Kool-Aid. Pharaoh is always bragging about how many chariots he has and how he's going to do this and do that. But it is God who is in control. George Soros is just one heartbeat away from meeting God.

    "Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?" (Isaiah 2:22)

    if there is any hope left, that's our ticket.
    If the local GOP machinery wants to reform itself and expunge the Judases from its midst, they can make themselves a part of the inevitable change that is coming, whether they join or not.

    And by the way, you're not wrong about how at every turn "they" try to turn back the tide of liberty because its contagious to a degree (as was the case with Ron Paul in 08 & 12). That doesn't necessarily mean liberty is the default for everyone or that everyone wants it, because they don't. Plenty to prove that assertion as well.
    The "wanting" of "liberty" is beside the point. Everyone actually wants liberty, no matter what they say with their mouths. Even people with slave-fetishes that act out bizarre BDSM kinks arrange a safe-word... what is the safe-word but the assertion of liberty (that is, self-ownership)? So, anyone who says with their mouth, "I don't believe in liberty" logically contradicts themselves in the act of saying it, like the man who says, "I am a liar". In the very act of exercising the liberty of their vocal cords to say, "I don't believe in liberty", they contradict themselves. Liberty is not a plank in a political platform. Liberty is a necessary logical precursor to any action whatsoever, even the action of voting in tyrants or chanting NPC slogans at a leftist rally.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    DC is a swamp (literally) and I don't think anyone will shed any tears if it just happened to slide off into the Atlantic. We never needed DC for anything. The US is a union of 50 states. After establishing their infinity-cash machine in 1913, the Feds have proceeded to act as if they are Literally God. Well, they're not.
    I dunno. It was honestly somewhat impressive how the Federal Reserve managed to recoup its credibility after the 2008 housing market crash. That should have been the end of it then.

    Here we are with another potentially massive bubble in the housing market (though perhaps this time caused as much by artificial material scarcity as easy money). It's only been a little over a decade and we've learned nothing. And no one is even talking about the Fed these days.

    People are idiots, and among idiots, the people in DC might as well be gods.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    If the local GOP machinery wants to reform itself and expunge the Judases from its midst, they can make themselves a part of the inevitable change that is coming, whether they join or not.
    To that I would say that Georgia made an attempt at that earlier this week in the primary. It's now estimated that well over 100,000 democrats crossed over to vote in the GOP primary for the establishment candidates, tipping the scales. Not illegal to do in an open primary state, of course, but the civil war within the GOP is none of the left's business and they are quickly defining themselves as unthinking defenders of the establishment, and therefore much more useless to the liberty movement (if it still exists) than average GOPers with at least one eye open.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-27-2022 at 01:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I dunno. It was honestly somewhat impressive how the Federal Reserve managed to recoup its credibility after the 2008 housing market crash. That should have been the end of it then.
    A lot of things should have ended a long time ago. No problem, the final court of appeal is the Great White Throne and it is approaching us on wings of lightning...

    Here we are with another potentially massive bubble in the housing market (though perhaps this time caused as much by artificial material scarcity as easy money). It's only been a little over a decade and we've learned nothing. And no one is even talking about the Fed these days.
    Well, the Fed is the core of the political rot, but it is not the core of the rot. The core of the rot is spiritual, and it goes allllll the way back to the Snake in the Garden. They may succeed at deflecting the arrows from striking their Fed Idol... but at what cost. The end is inevitable, even more inevitable than death itself...

    People are idiots, and among idiots, the people in DC might as well be gods.
    If you really believe all your countrymen are idiots, then of course you will acquiesce to Federal power, because all the "smart" people are already in DC.

    That's why reading the enemy propaganda is so dangerous. After a while, you start believing it if you're not careful...

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post

    If you really believe all your countrymen are idiots, then of course you will acquiesce to Federal power, because all the "smart" people are already in DC.
    Fair enough. It isn't all of them. Only half of them. Then half of the other half.

    About 1/3 to 1/2 of the GOP knows that at the very least, something is deeply wrong, they just need better guidance. The left is just gargling the establishment's c**k at the moment and I've not much sympathy for them.

    I'm not inclined to write off the GOP because what I see today versus what I saw 14 years ago shows promising improvement, yet I would not complain if the awakening could happen a bit faster. I don't think it is going to be enough. In any case we are in no position to refuse divine intervention should it happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I'm not inclined to write off the GOP because what I see today versus what I saw 14 years ago shows promising improvement, yet I would not complain if the awakening could happen a bit faster. I don't think it is going to be enough. In any case we are in no position to refuse divine intervention should it happen.
    The knees of the GOP ought to be shaking at the thought of divine judgment, not delusionally imagining itself as the vehicle of divine intervention. No strategy is more effective at stopping the forces of good than securing the cooperation of internal turncoats. As far as I can see, the GOP, certainly at the national level, is packed like sardines with turncoats. Are there a few good apples in the barrel of rotted applesauce vinegar? Perhaps. God does do miracles. But that barrel of rotten apples that we call the GOP has done more damage to liberty than any other single organization in the world.

    “The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.”
    ― Confucius

  30. #26
    This is turning into a long debate, but I would like to remind you that recently 57 Republican congressmen voted against spending $50+ billion we don't have and sending it to Ukraine for a war the US helped cause when the US instituted regime change in the 2014 coup. 11 Senators voted against it. Again, republicans.

    NOT ONE DEMOCRAT voted against it. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

    Where are the democrats who will oppose this evil? It has become incredibly one-sided (+many old guard GOP) but the only sign of resistance I'm seeing right now is all coming from the right.

    And yes, you could argue that they're only doing this because Biden is taking up the war position. That may be. But those 57 congressmen would never have been able to vote like that and survive re-election a decade ago. That's probably because the voters in their districts have changed. People in the GOP who wouldn't have given the libertarians the time of day in 2008, are now at least listening to once-"kooky" ideas about non-interventionism. And if you phrase it in terms they understand, which, admittedly ends up dripping with nationalism but at least showing how military adventurism abroad actually weakens America and does *not* make America Great (*GASP* He's right!), you'd be surprised how many find the concept of a less militaristic foreign policy appealing. The lightbulbs come on. There is sign of intelligent life. Try making the same argument to a liberal and they just screech at you and call you a Nazi.

    But you know what the funny thing is, the leftist comes over to assist the GOP establishment in a massive chorus and wants to evict those sensible representatives from government even if it potentially replaces them with warmongering neoconservatives.

    So to hell with them.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-27-2022 at 04:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me



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