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Thread: Young Americans for Liberty going woke & neocon?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How did they become the enemies of liberty?
    Is this a psychological question? Or do you mean, what makes him think they are?
    "Pity we didn't nominate Rand Paul--a man who actually has the Alpha Cojones to put his life on the line, but unfortunately lacks the bad taste necessary to brag about them."-- acptulsa



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How did they become the enemies of liberty?
    By adopting, defending, supporting, and implementing anti-liberty positions rather than pro-liberty ones.

    They cannot have been "persuaded" by someone else into doing so despite their own presuppositions (and/or sensibilities, inclinations, temperament, self-interest, etc.), but only because of them.[1]

    And the same is true of those who adopt, defend, support, and implement pro-liberty positions rather than anti-liberty ones.

    The only person who can "persuade" you of anything is you. Everything else is just grist for the mill, to be ground as you see fit (if at all).



    [1] Otherwise, who "persuaded" the "persuaders"? And who "persuaded" them? And who "persuaded" them? And so on ad infinitum ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 02-08-2022 at 08:46 PM.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    I actually think she has a point in her email. Messaging is important and the art of persuasion, you have to think about how other people interpret your messaging.
    This is all great and fine and applies to... 2007. Or 2012. Or even 2016.

    Not in 2022.

    We're done with persuasion at this point. The war is being waged. If our spheres, such as YAL, are doing stuff like this, then they need to be cast away OR TAKEN BACK OVER BY OUR TYPES.

    Liberty folks, by nature, don't like taking over things; we don't like force, etc. Unfortunately, that has led us all to being bent over the table and gagged and here we are.

    It's time to get mean about this stuff.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    This is all great and fine and applies to... 2007. Or 2012. Or even 2016.

    Not in 2022.

    We're done with persuasion at this point. The war is being waged. If our spheres, such as YAL, are doing stuff like this, then they need to be cast away OR TAKEN BACK OVER BY OUR TYPES.

    Liberty folks, by nature, don't like taking over things; we don't like force, etc. Unfortunately, that has led us all to being bent over the table and gagged and here we are.

    It's time to get mean about this stuff.
    I would argue that it's time to unify over principles rather than divide our ranks even further over messaging. The simple principle that the government has overreached and is clinging to this stolen power is unifying and has broad-based appeal. Let's stop taking shots at each other over how we're talking about things. Let them use their messaging technique and we can use ours. Hell, even Jimmy Dore, Bill Maher, and Russell Brand are helping the cause. I don't agree with any of them on their points of view, but they can speak to people who won't listen to us.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #35
    Rather disappointed. Hopefully the people that are pushing wokeness and neoconservatism will be pushed out of the organization.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I would argue that it's time to unify over principles rather than divide our ranks even further over messaging. The simple principle that the government has overreached and is clinging to this stolen power is unifying and has broad-based appeal. Let's stop taking shots at each other over how we're talking about things. Let them use their messaging technique and we can use ours. Hell, even Jimmy Dore, Bill Maher, and Russell Brand are helping the cause. I don't agree with any of them on their points of view, but they can speak to people who won't listen to us.
    Unifying over principles is an absolute non-starter. Give me one time in history where people united over principles. It's probably 0.

    Unifying over a common cause? That is more reasonable.

    Unifying over a common enemy? This is historically most common.

    But principles? Pretty much never.

    We need to separate. And the only way that happens is if people get angry.

    So let people get angry. Fuel their rage, on both sides.

    Piss people off. And do not apologize for it.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Unifying over principles is an absolute non-starter. Give me one time in history where people united over principles. It's probably 0.

    Unifying over a common cause? That is more reasonable.

    Unifying over a common enemy? This is historically most common.

    But principles? Pretty much never.

    We need to separate. And the only way that happens is if people get angry.

    So let people get angry. Fuel their rage, on both sides.

    Piss people off. And do not apologize for it.
    CNN and the MSM for the past 20 years:

    We need to separate division. And the only way that happens is if people get angry.

    So let people get angry. Fuel their rage, on both sides.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    CNN and the MSM for the past 20 years:
    On that, I consider them an ally, as I am in complete agreement.

    Keep in mind - that the more that this country is divided into two, the more united each side becomes.

    Division builds unity.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 02-09-2022 at 10:41 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I would argue that it's time to unify over principles rather than divide our ranks even further over messaging. The simple principle that the government has overreached and is clinging to this stolen power is unifying and has broad-based appeal. Let's stop taking shots at each other over how we're talking about things. Let them use their messaging technique and we can use ours. Hell, even Jimmy Dore, Bill Maher, and Russell Brand are helping the cause. I don't agree with any of them on their points of view, but they can speak to people who won't listen to us.
    In Lauren's memo about Massie's photo, she states that "given that we are in the business of advocating for the 2nd Amendment".

    Not sure whether that sounds like commitment to a principle, or a business direction that could be changed at any time.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    On that, I consider them an ally, as I am in complete agreement.

    Keep in mind - that the more that this country is divided into two, the more united each side becomes.

    Division builds unity.
    "Division builds unity."

    "War is Peace".
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    "Division builds unity."

    "War is Peace".
    Laugh if you want, but it's true.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    On that, I consider them an ally, as I am in complete agreement.

    Keep in mind - that the more that this country is divided into two, the more united each side becomes.

    Division builds unity.
    Just don't build yourself an agenda and a worldview that divides you from fresh, new allies who just awoke to the reality of the situation.
    "Pity we didn't nominate Rand Paul--a man who actually has the Alpha Cojones to put his life on the line, but unfortunately lacks the bad taste necessary to brag about them."-- acptulsa

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Just don't build yourself an agenda and a worldview that divides you from fresh, new allies who just awoke to the reality of the situation.
    I don't discriminate much in allies. The only thing I request in an ally is the willingness to separate and the balls to do it.

    Lauren however has no balls. That does not make her an enemy, it just makes her an average weakling coward like the vast majority of America. Neither ally nor foe.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Liberty folks, by nature, don't like taking over things; we don't like force, etc. Unfortunately, that has led us all to being bent over the table and gagged and here we are.
    This is why libertarianism as a political movement has and will continue to be an embarrassing failure.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    This is why libertarianism as a political movement has and will continue to be an embarrassing failure.
    I've accepted a long time ago that libertarianism as a political philosophy is dead in the water.

    The best we can hope for is to separate/secede in an effort to keep government as local as possible, and in doing so, naturally limit the scope of government.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How did they become the enemies of liberty?
    People tend to disagree if it is mental illness or birth defect. Not sure it matters. Probably have about the same rehabilitation success ratio as child molesters and untreated heroin addicts.
    Do something Danke

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    People tend to disagree if it is mental illness or birth defect. Not sure it matters. Probably have about the same rehabilitation success ratio as child molesters and untreated heroin addicts.
    I leave the rehabilitation efforts to people who give a $#@! about that.

    None of my concern.

    Same with the Leftists.

    They can do as they wish.

    So long as they leave me alone.

    Which they have thus far proven incapable.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I would argue that it's time to unify over principles rather than divide our ranks even further over messaging. The simple principle that the government has overreached and is clinging to this stolen power is unifying and has broad-based appeal. Let's stop taking shots at each other over how we're talking about things. Let them use their messaging technique and we can use ours. Hell, even Jimmy Dore, Bill Maher, and Russell Brand are helping the cause. I don't agree with any of them on their points of view, but they can speak to people who won't listen to us.
    If the leftists are going to rise up in America, they'd better do it before the eggs get cold and the breakfast is ruined. I have no issue with working with them (when *they* make their own choice) but I don't have the time or patience pull a stubborn mule, when the horse is saddled and ready to go.

    H'yah!
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 02-09-2022 at 01:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    In Lauren's memo about Massie's photo, she states that "given that we are in the business of advocating for the 2nd Amendment".

    Not sure whether that sounds like commitment to a principle, or a business direction that could be changed at any time.
    Not to mention that her comments completely missed the original reason that 2A was written. Self-defense perhaps in a sense, yes, but we all know why. Or is it for hunting and self defense, @TheTexan?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Not to mention that her comments completely missed the original reason that 2A was written. Self-defense perhaps in a sense, yes, but we all know why. Or is it for hunting and self defense, @TheTexan?
    The courts have consistent re-affirmed that the 2A is primarily for hunting.

    The justices often refer to it as the "deer rule". When considering whether a weapon is protected by the 2A or not, ask yourself: how many deer has it killed lately? how many people has it killed lately?

    If a weapon has killed way more deer than people then it's protected by the 2A.

    Many constitutional scholars believe that the word "bear" was a typo. It was intended to be "the right to deer arms shall not be infringed"
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    "Division builds unity."

    "War is Peace".
    He who would have peace must prepare for war.
    Peace through superior firepower.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The courts have consistent re-affirmed that the 2A is primarily for hunting.

    The justices often refer to it as the "deer rule". When considering whether a weapon is protected by the 2A or not, ask yourself: how many deer has it killed lately? how many people has it killed lately?

    If a weapon has killed way more deer than people then it's protected by the 2A.

    Many constitutional scholars believe that the word "bear" was a typo. It was intended to be "the right to deer arms shall not be infringed"
    Or perhaps the court has erred and the test should be counting how many bears the weapon has killed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I've accepted a long time ago that libertarianism as a political philosophy is dead in the water.

    The best we can hope for is to separate/secede in an effort to keep government as local as possible, and in doing so, naturally limit the scope of government.
    This is the only path forward. Perhaps libertarianism at the local and micro level is more viable. And that's a big perhaps.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    This is why libertarianism as a political movement has and will continue to be an embarrassing failure.
    BINGO.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I've accepted a long time ago that libertarianism as a political philosophy is dead in the water.

    The best we can hope for is to separate/secede in an effort to keep government as local as possible, and in doing so, naturally limit the scope of government.
    BINGO.

    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    This is the only path forward. Perhaps libertarianism at the local and micro level is more viable. And that's a big perhaps.
    Libertarianism's future is certainly not national. It'll never be at the highest office in the land. It hardly works at the federal level. I foresee true libertarian candidates never holding more than 5% of the House even in its best years. The Senate will be lucky if it has one candidate like Rand every 6 years.

    If people want to be serious about it, then local and state is where to go. Even then, good luck. Like I said in another thread, the GOP outnumbers the LP more than 60:1 in my state. Dems outnumber the LP around 35:1. It'll take many years for the LP to get to respectable levels. Years we no longer have.

    How many Dems and Reps are gonna be converted any time soon with everything that's going on? What power does the LP grant to right wing people who want to help curtail the tyranny of D.C. NOW? And most Dems are a lost cause at this point.


    And you see some of the responses above saying "we shouldn't divide over something like messaging... we need unity..."
    Yea, we did need unity. Let me ask everyone: at this point in time, do you want people who are willing to sacrifice principle and courage over some marketing decision because it might, MIGHT win over a handful of Dems on Twitter? Really? That's where we are? That's pathetic. Like I said above, if YAL if gonna be like this, take them back over or cast them away. We can't afford to have weak entities right now who will bend with the wind. They're the types that'll apologize to a leftist hoard for mistyping something. It seems to me they likely would have endorsed Jo as LP nominee because of her fantastic BLM "messaging."

    "It'S sTrAtEgIc!"

    Kumbaya is over, people have picked their sides. Quit dragging your feet and worrying about "messaging" on Twitter. Twitter!

    And this is why getting libertarians to unify, as it was and as it remains, is like herding cats.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  29. #55

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post

    This is how you lose your rights and freedom. Repeatedly. Over and over again. For decades.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He who would have peace must prepare for war.
    Peace through superior firepower.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  33. #58
    https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/st...56953865011200


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    "YOUR WELCOME" with Michael Malice #219: Dave Smith
    Michael Malice (“YOUR WELCOME”) welcomes fan favorite, Dave Smith, back onto the show to discuss his recent appearance at Young Americans for Liberty, the victories of the Mises Caucus, and why no one hates Donald Trump more than he does.
    https://odysee.com/@MichaelMalice:6/...l-malice-219:5

  34. #59
    delete nulll
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

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