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Thread: US/NATO ready to commit suicide with insane warmongering policy

  1. #1

    US/NATO ready to commit suicide with insane warmongering policy

    “I made clear to Minister Lavrov that there are certain principles that the US, our partners and allies, are committed to defend. That includes those that would impede the sovereign right of the Ukrainian people to write their own future. There is no trade-space there – none,” he said.

    likely Russian interpretation:
    they are prepared for war in order to keep the agenda of surrounding our country with hostile forces in place. not solely the Ukraine, but all, and any. this is a severe destabilisation of our country that we cannot accept.

    "However, he added, there was room to do a deal over a number of other issues referenced in the proposals. “On the security concerns Russia has raised in recent weeks, the US, our allies and partners are prepared to pursue a possible means of addressing them – in a spirit of reciprocity, which, simply put, means Russia must also address our concerns,” he went on. “There are several steps that we can take, all of us, Russia included, to increase transparency, to reduce risks, to advance arms control, to build trust.”

    likely Russian interpretation:
    they are delaying again. we cannot trust them, and sacrifice our current advantage.

    "NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has criticized Moscow’s requests, saying that the country has no veto on Ukraine’s efforts to join the bloc, and that it will not accept a “two-tier” membership system that prevents it from deploying troops in certain states."

    likely Russian interpretation:
    we understand you do not care if we have to kill your troops that threaten us. this says more about yourself than us.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/546761-us-not-deal-moscow/

    Russia awaits the American written response.

    "Speaking to journalists shortly after the meeting in the Swiss city of Geneva on Friday, Lavrov said the US side had set out its initial view on the two draft treaties developed by the Kremlin. “Blinken told me he was satisfied with the exchange we had and that it will help him, he assured us, to issue a written response next week.” However, Lavrov added, at present “their reaction is only preliminary – we were warned about this.”
    https://www.rt.com/russia/546755-us-...ato-proposals/
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.



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  3. #2
    The insane warmongering policy of... thinking that other nations should have the right of free association?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The insane warmongering policy of... thinking that other nations should have the right of free association?
    A military alliance that has the sole purpose of attacking your country is not simple right of association. It is a conspiracy to destroy your country.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    A military alliance that has the sole purpose of attacking your country is not simple right of association.
    How many attacks has that alliance conducted in its 73 year history?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How many attacks has that alliance conducted in its 73 year history?
    You mean besides Iraq and Afghanistan, right?

    Oh, sorry, you're a coincidence theorist. A coalition that includes numerous NATO members isn't NATO until CNN calls it NATO, right?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 01-22-2022 at 09:28 AM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You mean besides Iraq and Afghanistan, right?

    Oh, sorry, you're a coincidence theorist. A coalition that includes numerous NATO members isn't NATO until CNN calls it NATO, right?
    Don't forget Yugoslavia twice and Libya.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How many attacks has that alliance conducted in its 73 year history?
    As noted, correct answer is 5 in last 30 years.

    Yugoslavia twice, Afghanistan, Iraq & Libya

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The insane warmongering policy of... thinking that other nations should have the right of free association?
    Congratulations on using basically the same argument used to justify every US foreign intervention since WWII.



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  11. #9
    So, let's see if I have this right:

    We're on the verge of WW3 due to a possible or actual Russian advance into Ukraine.

    We're going to war, in the words of the vice president, to protect the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine.

    Meanwhile the US border is wide open, with over two million invaders having crossed into the country since Biden took office.

    And China, in collusion with our own government, released a bioweapon on us that, to date, has killed close to a million American citizens.

    And regarding both these serious national security breaches and acts of war against the republic, nobody lifts a finger, our multi trillion dollar military is too busy appointing broads to command Old Ironsides, making SEALS walk in high heels, designing flight suits for pregnant women and, oh yes, declaring war on normal Americans.

    And you're going to commit to a land, air and sea war with Russians?

    With Thoroughly Modern Millie leading the 107th Queeer and Trans Fagggot brigade?

    Over the Ukrainian border and NATO?

    SMMFH.

    Clowns in Clown World.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  12. #10
    Pushing separation protests in the US - protestors holding up signs "SEPARATE" would send a strong enough message to the government they better cut their heavy handled regulatory and foreign policy nonsense out or else there will not be a nation left to protect the elites foreign policy monetization efforts that put our lives at risk.

    I bet the Ron Paul grassroots movement from years past could be reconstituted for protests to that effect.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    Don't forget Yugoslavia twice and Libya.

    It's insane how many Leftist defend the Kosovo war.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
    It's insane how many Leftist defend the Kosovo war.
    It was a war against Christianity. What the Bolshies couldn't do, the US tried to finish.
    ...

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    It was a war against Christianity. What the Bolshies couldn't do, the US tried to finish.
    Hard to get whole picture of this war.

    Is that intentionall?

  16. #14
    @TheCount is Deep State.

    He should be in Ukraine right now, egging them on. Chances are only increasing. All sorts of land, sea, and air hardware on the way there. Really egging on the Ukrainians to try and kill Russians rather than let it go smoothly and with as few casualties as possible. Unfortunately, for the US troops already there, they will be among the first to die for the Deep State.
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Congratulations on using basically the same argument used to justify every US foreign intervention since WWII.
    Actually... no, usually we justify our interventions by arguing against free association and sovereignty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You mean besides Iraq and Afghanistan, right?

    Oh, sorry, you're a coincidence theorist. A coalition that includes numerous NATO members isn't NATO until CNN calls it NATO, right?
    Wait but I thought its sole purpose was attacking Russia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.



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  20. #17
    List of NATO military engagements:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Actually... no, usually we justify our interventions by arguing against free association and sovereignty.
    Who is "we".

    Hillary Clinton was instrumental in installing the Ukrainian Nazi Party.

    It has never been a widely accepted arrangement by the Ukrainian People..
    Though likely Profitable for a Crack Head Biden also involved there.

    I see nothing wrong with Russia coming to the aid of Friends, Neighbors and Family in the Ukraine..
    and continue to wonder what NATO Provocations are all about.

    Perhaps it is nothing but Criminal Profits by the Biden Clan.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Actually... no, usually we justify our interventions by arguing against free association and sovereignty.
    "We".

    "We" didn't want Koreans to freely associate with China. "We" didn't want the Vietnamese to freely associate with China.

    I also like how you threw "sovereignty" into the mix, after the fact. You're a big one for crying about shifting goal posts, aren't you?

    You're getting shredded in this thread, and it's delightful.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Wait but I thought its sole purpose was attacking Russia.
    Oh, well. With definitions like that, you can deny everything. Since police departments in this country are ostensibly to protect and serve, cops who shoot dogs aren't a part of the police departments which pay them and issue their uniforms, am I right?
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So, let's see if I have this right:...
    Yep. That sounds about right to me.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Who is "we".
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    "We".
    Mysteriously you weren't confused or dismayed when AF said we.


    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    "We" didn't want Koreans to freely associate with China. "We" didn't want the Vietnamese to freely associate with China.
    Yeah, that's my point, congratulations, you found it. Correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Mysteriously you weren't confused or dismayed when AF said we.
    I merely chose your post to point it out. Besides, you're the collectivist here. It makes more sense to quote you on this point.

    Yeah, that's my point, congratulations, you found it. Correct.
    Perhaps I misunderstood you... the US/NATO have used "free association", in one direction or another, as a basis for interventionism since the end of WWII. Your remarks in this thread have seemingly been in favor of NATO taking a hard line on Ukraine, because it would be just to prevent one country (Russia) from imposing itself on another (Ukraine). Thus my comments on Korea and Vietnam. If I misunderstood your point, please disregard.

  27. #24
    Lavrov: US Did Not Respond to Main Question - On Non-Expansion of NATO

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - The United States, in its response to Russia’s proposals on security guarantees, left the main question about non-expansion of NATO to the east unanswered, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Thursday.
    "There is no positive reaction on the main issue in this document. The main issue is our clear position that further NATO expansion to the east and the deployment of strike weapons that could threaten the territory of the Russian Federation are unacceptable," Lavrov told reporters.
    Lavrov also said that Russia is reviewing the US response.
    "The content of the document - there is a reaction that allows us to count on the start of a serious conversation, but on secondary issues," Lavrov added.
    The content of the United States’ response to Russian proposals on security guarantees will be known soon, the Russian top diplomat said.

    "As for the content of the response, I think it will become known to the general public in the very near future, because, as our American colleagues told us, although they prefer the document to remain for a confidential diplomatic dialogue, it has been agreed with all US allies and with the Ukrainian side. Therefore, I have no doubt that in the very near future it will ‘leak," Lavrov told reporters.
    He also stressed that Moscow is considering the US and NATO responses on security guarantees as a whole.

    According to Lavrov, the United States deliberately aims to avoid discussing the need to follow the principle of indivisibility of security, and Russia is not ready to accept this.
    "The principle that one should not strengthen one's security at the expense of the security of others is deliberately avoided. Neither the Istanbul nor the Astana declarations are mentioned by our Western partners in the discussions on European security that are currently taking place … We cannot accept this," Lavrov said.

    The minister added that Russia will soon send an official request to the US and NATO and ask why they regard provisions of the principle of indivisibility of security separately from each other.
    Russia's next step after receiving the responses of the United States and NATO to its European security proposals will be determined by Russian President Vladimir Putin, Lavrov said.

    "After an interdepartmental consultation, we will brief the president, and the president will decide on our next steps," the minister concluded.

    In December, the US received the list of security proposals from Russia expected to de-escalate tensions between Moscow and NATO over the situation in eastern Ukraine. The draft agreements were later published on the Russian Foreign Ministry's website. The documents suggest that the sides provide legally binding written guarantees to each other not to deploy troops and military equipment in areas where they could be viewed as a threat to the other side and also restrict the deployment of Russia and US nuclear weapons abroad. In addition to that, Moscow suggested that the US and NATO make a commitment not to continue the alliance's expansion to the east and never accept Ukraine or any other former Soviet republic into NATO.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220127/lav...092553489.html
    "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy ... Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." - J.F.K.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    @TheCount is Deep State.

    He should be in Ukraine right now, egging them on. Chances are only increasing. All sorts of land, sea, and air hardware on the way there. Really egging on the Ukrainians to try and kill Russians rather than let it go smoothly and with as few casualties as possible. Unfortunately, for the US troops already there, they will be among the first to die for the Deep State.

    +rep
    The Count is a Gay Jew who wants war with Russia because Russia banned his form of Lifestyle.



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