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Thread: Supreme Court Will Hear Arguments on Biden Vaccine Mandate

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    I was thinking exactly this. WHO THE $#@! DO THESE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE? RISE THE $#@! UP.

    Who do they think they are? Why they think they're your masters, of course.

    The saddest thing to me is that ANYONE who considers themselves part of the so-called liberty movement would still be holding out hope that judges or politicians or other traditional institutions are going to fix this.

    There is no cavalry coming over the nearest hill.

    There is no great leader poised to come charging in on his gleaming white steed.

    NOBODY is coming to save you. NOBODY. EVER.

    So you damned well better start figuring out how to save yourselves.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Uh yeah so the 10th doesn't allow any of that $#@! in the first place. There are occasionally cases where upholding something that is so blatantly contrary to the 10th that it can't be allowed to stand. The OSHA mandate case is one example of that. DC has no authority to force anything on an individual resident/entity of the 50 states without that individual/entity otherwise consenting in some way.
    You miss the point. The constitutionality of the statutes wasn't raised by the plaintiffs, so unless you're one of those who thinks activist judges should go ahead and rule on issues that aren't before them, the Court was correct to not address that issue.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  4. #183
    What did we really gain out of this?

    -The Biden Admin literally just told U.S. companies to ignore the SC and push forward with mandates anyway. They did this after the mandates were stayed a couple months ago as well. I'm sure most will oblige at this rate.

    -Medical workers got the shaft. I mean, Jesus... They're apart of all of this with us. And just because they work at a place that accepts medicare and medicaid? And the one vote could have likely been Mr. Crybaby conservative Kavanaugh?


    The more I think on it, the more I don't feel that great about all of this, to be honest. Might just be me not having any faith in all of these institutions anymore.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    They did allow the mandate for medical workers to proceed, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Looks like the medical worker ruling was 5-4 with Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Barrett dissenting. So Roberts and Kavanaugh joined the libs.
    Who vetted Kavanaugh? Who recommended Kavanaugh?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Who vetted Kavanaugh? Who recommended Kavanaugh?
    Roberts came from the Bush establishment, so we know he was compromised from the beginning. A blackmailed puppet.

    But Kavanaugh, who pushed him?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    What's even more ironic is that in some states, they're allowing health care workers with active Covid cases to work because they are so short-handed. So, get it right... You need to be vaccinated to keep you from carrying the virus, but if you're carrying the virus and have been vaccinated, you're all good.

    Yeah, that makes sense
    CA is/has made exactly this move. Got the Covid its ok to work if you work in the medical field. Gawd, now is the perfect time for the nurses unions across the nation to walk out and demand higher wages.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Their ruling on health care workers pretty well seals all their fates.
    How so?

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by sdsubball23 View Post
    How so?
    It's predicated on the fact those facilities get Medicare payments.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    ďAlthough Congress has indisputably given OSHA the power to regulate occupational dangers, it has not given that agency the power to regulate public health more broadly,Ē the court wrote in an unsigned opinion.
    Errrr someone tell the Supreme Fraud that OSHA isnt constitutional...
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    You miss the point. The constitutionality of the statutes wasn't raised by the plaintiffs, so unless you're one of those who thinks activist judges should go ahead and rule on issues that aren't before them, the Court was correct to not address that issue.
    Wonder when the Supreme Fraud will do something about the fact that the majority of the federal government is operating outside the rule of law.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    SCOTUS will strike down the OSHA mandate with a watered-down Roberts ruling that doesn't go nearly far enough. They will uphold the healthcare workers mandates because they are boomers who listen to CNN and the Washington Compost. And libertarians and conservatives will claim victory.
    It's almost like the script was already written.

    From now on, only right wing activist justices ought to be put on the court. Or, just overturn Marbury v. Madison, repeal the Judiciary Act of 1789 and abolish the federal judiciary.

  14. #192
    Some good news...

    On Monday, my company instituted a policy to have all employees declare their vaccination status by Feb 9th, so they could implement the OSHA rule. Friggin' cowards.

    Last night, they rescinded that policy.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Some good news...

    On Monday, my company instituted a policy to have all employees declare their vaccination status by Feb 9th, so they could implement the OSHA rule. Friggin' cowards.

    Last night, they rescinded that policy.
    That is some good news and I think in instances like these we should really savor the little victory. But then we need to move on... Not directing that at you, by the way.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Some good news...

    On Monday, my company instituted a policy to have all employees declare their vaccination status by Feb 9th, so they could implement the OSHA rule. Friggin' cowards.

    Last night, they rescinded that policy.
    It's as if HIPAA isn't even a thing anymore.

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Some good news...

    On Monday, my company instituted a policy to have all employees declare their vaccination status by Feb 9th, so they could implement the OSHA rule. Friggin' cowards.

    Last night, they rescinded that policy.
    My employer did the same. Bought me some extra time.

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Man, how many people feel really stupid for taking the shots out of pure fear of OSHA threats now?
    You know the answer to that is zero. They'll rationalize it somehow. "I probably should have gotten it anyway" or "at least I can go to concerts now"
    My Medical Records are Private

    "If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months." --phill4paul

  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Who vetted Kavanaugh? Who recommended Kavanaugh?
    Did some research:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ugh-for-SCOTUS
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    You miss the point. The constitutionality of the statutes wasn't raised by the plaintiffs, so unless you're one of those who thinks activist judges should go ahead and rule on issues that aren't before them, the Court was correct to not address that issue.
    And you missed my point, apparently. The OSHA mandate is so blatantly contrary to the 10th that the argument didn't even need to be raised, hence why it was amazingly predictable that the mandate would not be allowed to continue. Whether the pleadings addressed the 10th specifically is irrelevant. Any "law" that is blatantly unconstitutional is null and void on its face. No specific court arguments needed. When the constitutionality of a law/mandate/policy/whatever is debatable, that is when arguments are needed, yes. No such debate was even necessary to know the OSHA mandate was contrary to the 10th and that is ultimately why it was not allowed to continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Who vetted Kavanaugh? Who recommended Kavanaugh?
    Well, we know who the cheerleaders on RPF were.....all the Trumpers who have since mostly slunk back into obscurity.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjm View Post
    You know the answer to that is zero. They'll rationalize it somehow. "I probably should have gotten it anyway" or "at least I can go to concerts now"
    Perhaps many, yes, but probably not the ones now dealing with permanent vax injuries, chronic illness due to depleted immune systems and other adverse reactions.


    -------------------------------------------

    Congress passing an OSHA mandate would also be struck down for the same 10th Amendment reasons. Federal government collectively does not have authority, regardless if Executive or Congress, to force anything on a resident/entity of the 50 states without that resident's/entity's consent in some form. It boils down to the Feds now being a corporate body instead of a governmental body and, accordingly, all measures coming out of DC require some form of voluntary contractual consent relevant to the subject matter of what is being legislated. Health care mandate upheld because there is voluntary consent via receiving federal funding. Federal employee and contractor mandate for the same reason. Federal taxation because of voluntary consent and engagement via EIN/SSN and voluntary engagement in W2s and associated forms (requires signatures, yes? if so, it's a voluntary contract....anything you sign is a contract). A few examples in every day life but the same principle applies. Voluntary consent, even if ignorantly entered into, is still consent.
    Last edited by devil21; 01-14-2022 at 12:46 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  22. #199
    The Divided States of America | A Conversation with Jeff Deist & Tom Woods
    Mises Institute President, Jeff Deist, and Tom Woods, author and host of the Tom Woods podcast, join Judge Napolitano to go in-depth on the state of America today.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=povaOiPFVcU

  23. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    The OSHA mandate is so blatantly contrary to the 10th that the argument didn't even need to be raised, hence why it was amazingly predictable that the mandate would not be allowed to continue. Whether the pleadings addressed the 10th specifically is irrelevant. Any "law" that is blatantly unconstitutional is null and void on its face. No specific court arguments needed. When the constitutionality of a law/mandate/policy/whatever is debatable, that is when arguments are needed, yes. No such debate was even necessary to know the OSHA mandate was contrary to the 10th and that is ultimately why it was not allowed to continue.
    I suggest you read the per curiam opinion in the case involving the OSHA regulation. It was based solely upon the language of the statute establishing OSHA and whether it authorized the agency to promulgate the mandate. It was in no way based on the notion that Congress had no authority to enact the statute in the first place. See https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...1a244_hgci.pdf

    This should be blatantly obvious when you consider that the Court upheld the mandate in the Medicare/Medicaid case, where it implicitly accepted the constitutionality of those programs (I suspect you believe they are unconstitutional as well).

    Hall of Fame umpire Bill Klem once took a bit too long to make a call on a pitch. When the batter asked if it was a ball or strike, Klem replied, "It ain't nothin' until I call it." In the same way, a statute isn't unconstitutional until the Court says it is. That's how the law in the real world works.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Federal government collectively does not have authority, regardless if Executive or Congress, to force anything on a resident/entity of the 50 states without that resident's/entity's consent in some form.
    Guess again. If you're drafted (assuming the draft were ever reinstated) or called to jury duty or supoenaed in federal court or had your property confiscated because you ignored a federal court judgment against you because you didn't consent to the court's jurisdiction over you you'd find out soon enough whether the feds had authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Federal taxation because of voluntary consent and engagement via EIN/SSN and voluntary engagement in W2s and associated forms (requires signatures, yes? if so, it's a voluntary contract....anything you sign is a contract).
    Taxation isn't based on contract or consent. If that were true, someone who never had a SSN or filed a tax return or signed a W-2 would never go to prison for tax evasion or have a civil judgment rendered against him for a tax deficiency (plus penalties and interest). But such people do go to prison and have judgments rendered against them. The argument that taxation is voluntary is a loser. See http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#voluntary, http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#contract, and http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#W-4
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cjm View Post
    You know the answer to that is zero. They'll rationalize it somehow. "I probably should have gotten it anyway" or "at least I can go to concerts now"
    Perhaps many, yes, but probably not the ones now dealing with permanent vax injuries, chronic illness due to depleted immune systems and other adverse reactions.
    Yeah, I know. "Zero" is an exaggeration. In fact, I falsified my own claim by citing a regret on another thread:

    LINK: Momís Twitter Timeline Shows Transformation from Pro-Vax To Pro-Informed Consent Following Teen Sonís Vaccine Injury

    But I suspect that many dealing with vax injuries, chronic illness, etc, will not associate their condition with the jab. "Heart failure 5 weeks later? Couldn't have been the jab." If they do, then yes, perhaps some regret. But I'm pointing out possible jab related damage to folks and the jabbed people in my life dismiss all of it. I'm not sure that they'd wake up even if they suffered a jab injury. "It would have been worse without the jab!!!"

    Or maybe my evaluation of my fellow man is just a lot lower than yours?
    My Medical Records are Private

    "If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months." --phill4paul

  26. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Guess again. If you're drafted (assuming the draft were ever reinstated) or called to jury duty or supoenaed in federal court or had your property confiscated because you ignored a federal court judgment against you because you didn't consent to the court's jurisdiction over you you'd find out soon enough whether the feds had authority.
    Registering for selective service is the consent that gives them the authority to draft you.
    My Medical Records are Private

    "If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months." --phill4paul

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I suggest you read the per curiam opinion in the case involving the OSHA regulation. It was based solely upon the language of the statute establishing OSHA and whether it authorized the agency to promulgate the mandate. It was in no way based on the notion that Congress had no authority to enact the statute in the first place. See https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...1a244_hgci.pdf

    This should be blatantly obvious when you consider that the Court upheld the mandate in the Medicare/Medicaid case, where it implicitly accepted the constitutionality of those programs (I suspect you believe they are unconstitutional as well).

    Hall of Fame umpire Bill Klem once took a bit too long to make a call on a pitch. When the batter asked if it was a ball or strike, Klem replied, "It ain't nothin' until I call it." In the same way, a statute isn't unconstitutional until the Court says it is. That's how the law in the real world works.



    Guess again. If you're drafted (assuming the draft were ever reinstated) or called to jury duty or supoenaed in federal court or had your property confiscated because you ignored a federal court judgment against you because you didn't consent to the court's jurisdiction over you you'd find out soon enough whether the feds had authority.



    Taxation isn't based on contract or consent. If that were true, someone who never had a SSN or filed a tax return or signed a W-2 would never go to prison for tax evasion or have a civil judgment rendered against him for a tax deficiency (plus penalties and interest). But such people do go to prison and have judgments rendered against them. The argument that taxation is voluntary is a loser. See http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#voluntary, http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#contract, and http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#W-4
    Very typical attorney reply from Sonny. A lot of words needed to explain something that is an extremely simple concept, which is the hallmark of the legal system. It violates the 10th. Can't continue. Stop. Easy peasy. But they can't rule in that manner because it removes the mystique and the ideal, which the legal system relies on, that "legal" is too complicated for the little people to comprehend. It's simple. In a country with a Constitution that restrains "government" from 95% of what it does, that 95% is by your own consent via entering contracts pledging your performance. Constitution does ensure freedom to enter contracts, even if ignorantly. It's all contracts to get us to give up rights in exchange for commercial privileges and accepting the liabilities. If you sign it, it's a contract to perform and like any contract if you don't follow the terms of the contract there are penalties. It's not rocket science. Keep signing W2s, W4s, 1099s, Social Security cards, credit cards, driver's licenses, bank account signature cards, etc. All contracts.....then wonder why ya don't feel very free anymore....

    (It's worth noting that Sonny literally is triggered somehow to post in any thread that mentions "income taxes". It's uncanny. Gee, wonder why?)
    Last edited by devil21; 01-14-2022 at 05:47 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  28. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    A lot of words needed to explain something that is an extremely simple concept, which is the hallmark of the legal system. It violates the 10th. Can't continue. Stop. Easy peasy. But they can't rule in that manner because it removes the mystique and the ideal, which the legal system relies on, that "legal" is too complicated for the little people to comprehend. It's simple.
    What's so simple that it's beyond your comprehension is that if none of the parties to a lawsuit asks the court to rule on a constitutional issue it's not the court's job to inject one into the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Constitution does ensure freedom to enter contracts, even if ignorantly.
    Nope. For example, hiring a hit man to kill someone is an illegal act that the Constitution doesn't protect. Similarly, entering into a usurious loan agreement or some other illegal agreement can result in penalties to the lender or render the contract unenforceable.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    (It's worth noting that Sonny literally is triggered somehow to post in any thread that mentions "income taxes". It's uncanny. Gee, wonder why?)
    'Cause Sonny would like to smarten up credulous suckers parroting the same tired, brain-dead arguments that have no basis in law and that have a 100% loss record in court. But for some folks who have drunk way too much tax-protester kool aid it's like trying to teach calculus to a banana slug.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by cjm View Post
    Registering for selective service is the consent that gives them the authority to draft you.
    And what gives them the authority to require that you register and penalize you if you don't?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Keep signing W2s, W4s, 1099s, Social Security cards, credit cards, driver's licenses, bank account signature cards, etc. All contracts.....then wonder why ya don't feel very free anymore....
    I needed to submit a new W9 last month. I signed it with "without prejudice UCC 1-308" It's just a drop in the bucket relative to the dozens of other things that I've signed in my life but it's a start.
    My Medical Records are Private

    "If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months." --phill4paul

  31. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    And what gives them the authority to require that you register and penalize you if you don't?
    legal incompetence.
    My Medical Records are Private

    "If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months." --phill4paul

  32. #208
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers



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