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Thread: Be Prepared to Deal With This Sort of Stuff

  1. #1

    Be Prepared to Deal With This Sort of Stuff

    I am involved in an MSN political community called Extreme Politics
    Recently I started a thread showcasing the email sent from Michael Scheuer CIA head of bin Laden desk applauding Ron Paul.
    Following is a resonse I recieved from a fellow member and a hater of Ron Paul.

    I would like to point out the links he provided. In that thread, I'm doing my best to debunk this guy. Sure wouldn't mind a little help. I find that political discussion forums are among the best places to make a case for liberty and the campaign of Ron Paul.

    Ron Paul is just as big a phony as everyone else in Congress. By the admission of his own staff he makes sure funds are put into every bill for his district. Hardly a person who does not like pork. Then because he knows the bill is going to pass anyway, he votes against it, so he can have his cake and eat it too. He can bring home the pork for his district, and post on his blogs how he voted against the bill and please his stalwarts who never look past his words to his actions to see what a phony he is.

    His comments about blacks are also demonstrative of ignorance, I won't say racism because I don't know the man, but they are remarkably ignorant.

    Congressman Paul always makes sure, in any of the appropriations bills, whether they're a supplemental, a regular bill, or a hurricane bill, he always takes whatever steps he can to make sure that some of the spending in that bill goes to the district. That's part of his job," Deist said.

    http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/007534.html

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/15/124912/740

    Regardless of what the media tell us, most white Americans are not going to believe that they are at fault for what blacks have done to cities across America. The professional blacks may have cowed the elites, but good sense survives at the grass roots. Many more are going to have difficultly avoiding the belief that our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin. This conclusion may not be entirely fair, but it is, for many, entirely unavoidable.

    Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action.... Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

    If similar in-depth studies were conducted in other major cities, who doubts that similar results would be produced? We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.

    Perhaps the L.A. experience should not be surprising. The riots, burning, looting, and murders are only a continuation of 30 years of racial politics.The looting in L.A. was the welfare state without the voting booth. The elite have sent one message to black America for 30 years: you are entitled to something for nothing. That's what blacks got on the streets of L.A. for three days in April. Only they didn't ask their Congressmen to arrange the transfer.



    Texas congressional candidate Ron Paul's 1992 political newsletter highlighted portrayals of blacks as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about top political issues.

    Under the headline of "Terrorist Update," for instance, Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and commented, "If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

    Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time."

    ... [I]n the same 1992 edition ... [Paul wrote], "We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such."

    Paul also asserted that "complex embezzling" is conducted exclusively by non-blacks.

    "What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn't that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?" he wrote.



    University of Texas affirmative action law professor Barbara Jordan is a fraud. Everything from her imitation British accent, to her supposed expertise in law, to her distinguished career in public service, is made up. If there were ever a modern case of the empress without clothes, this is it. She is the archetypical half-educated victimologist, yet her race and sex protect her from criticism.

    -------------------

    The bold is the author's emphasis. Assuming these quotes are accurate, I have a big problem with some of them. Not that it will really matter, as my opinion of the guy is low to start with, he has no shot at the presidency and I don't live in his distict. But some of those quotes are and should be very bothersome for his supporters.


    Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions,

    I would not consider that racist. Condescending and arrogant but not racist.

    Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

    This one is just flat out indefensible. Perhaps not racist, but ignorant.

    We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.

    Again, ignorance. Those types of things tell you nothing about an individual. I dare say you could say the same about a lot of different segments of society and Paul would not agree with it.

    Paul also asserted that "complex embezzling" is conducted exclusively by non-blacks.

    "What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn't that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?" he wrote

    Pure ignorance again, he is essentially saying that blacks arfe not intelligent enough to be embezzlers.

    We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such

    Breaking news for you Ronny, there are white boys like that too.

    His remarks about Jordan he disowned, saying he did not make them. I won't address those, even though again they show ignornace.

    I don't know if he is a racist, but he is ignorant as hell.



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  3. #2
    My honest feeling on that response is that "they" are "reaching" for
    everything they can to try and smear Ron.

    Typical politics.

    The thing is - there's not much ammo for them since Ron is about
    as straight as they come.

    You should send that to Ron's campaign director and see if you can get the
    home team to respond with facts.

    - Dave
    Ron Paul Fever
    "The 2nd American Revolution Has Begun... Are You A Part Of It?"
    "Feel It... Catch It... Spread It!!!"

  4. #3
    Didn't Ron Paul already come out and say that was written by a ghost writer?

  5. #4
    Here is an article that is more accurate on Ron Paul's beliefs about racism

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul381.html

  6. #5
    Thanks for the responses and keep them coming. I will definatly send it to the HQ to get their response.
    But the attacks are coming in and we better learn how to repell them effectively. The more popular RP gets the more of this we should expect. Heck. We've already seen it. We've seen and heard Glen Beck and Hannity and Giuliani and heard the applause in the crowd. We're up against a powerful media and billions of dollars. We're actually coming up against a global power elite.
    I mean, there's a growing sentiment out there that if by some miracle RP does get elected, there will be attemts to off him.
    Don't know about you guys, but I would gladdly take a bullet for the man. I'll stand in the way and be part of the army that surrounds him.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Shays View Post
    but I would gladdly take a bullet for the man.
    A president worth fighting for, you betcha.

  8. #7
    Funny how Sklar ran this smear campaign, yet Paul was still elected to the representative seat. Obviously his district doesnt think he is voting completely against their wants.

  9. #8
    Of course he's adding stuff that sends money to his district, and of course he's voting against it. If the majority votes against it, no one gets jack. If he doesn't add stuff for his district, then his district is the only one that isn't getting anything and that would be a real shame. So to me, this policy makes a whole lot of sense. It's what I'd do if I were in that position, too. It's the difference between a realist who realizes that the bill will pass, and doesn't want to leave his constituents out in the rain, while still doing the right thing and voting against excess spending.
    I would, in fact, consider any other course of action to be more troublesome - someone who votes against but still adds no benefit for his own constituency is clearly trying harder to live in a dream world than to make the best of reality (I've seen a lot of these types, really.) Someone who does add the benefits for their constituency and votes for it is... well... just another 'business as usual' politician doing what they've been trained to do. Neither of these types is good for America.



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  11. #9
    Re: pork

    I'm against unemployment benefits, but when there ever is a time in which I have a choice to apply for them, you better believe I will, because I paid into the system.

    Re: racism

    I've not yet seen any concrete quotes from Ron Paul on the issue.

    Re: beating the opponents to the punch by resolving these kind of issues

    It's exactly what we need to be doing. In the quest to prepare for them, we'll automatically become more informed, and we'll be better able to argue the principle case of limited government.
    You either believe that within your society more individuals are good than evil, and that by protecting the freedom of individuals within that society you will end up with a society that is as fair as possible, or you believe that within your society more individuals are evil than good, and that by limiting the freedom of individuals within that society you will end up with a society that is as fair as possible.

  12. #10
    I think we should form "teams" to visit various political discussion forums, especialyy Republican leaning ones and make a good case for voting for Ron Paul in the primaries.

    We're all preaching to the chior here folks. Its great to have a to and fro with eachother, exchanging ideas and methods. But unless we go into the belly of the beast we'll not hone our skills properly. No better way to know your position well than to have it seriously challenged in a debate. And what we learn there we can pass onto others.

    Which brings me to another point. There's power in numbers. If we can all find ways to work together with eachother better than our political advesaries work with eachother then we'll gain an advantage. We'll really be formadable.

    Just some thoughts. I'm here in New Jersey and I only know one other Ron Paul supporter. I sort of wish I knew how to set up a Collingswood chapter or whatever you would call it.
    Any suggestions?

  13. #11
    You are correct on the aspect of honing ones skills by going into the belly of the beast. Honestly, I would disagree that NOW is the appropriate time for some to jump in. I speak from personal experience. This is long and I apologize for that.

    Today, I feel very confident in defending *the freedom philosophy.* A little background on me: I have, for four years, participated in an online forum of predominately women. At the time I joined, there were less than 4k members. Today, there are over 15k. Remember, I differ from Dr. Paul in that I'm an-archist while he is min-archist.

    I "came out" as an anarchist and was ridiculed WITHOUT MERCY. I was called every awful name in the book. Those women were BRUTAL. I persevered.

    And this is key: YOU CANNOT ALLOW ANGER TO OVERTAKE YOU IN THE ONLINE ARENA. If you do, you bring discredit not just to your own persona, but more importantly, you discredit **the message.** This is why I think now might not be the best time for the uninitiated to jump in. It was one of the most difficult things I have ever done - keeping a cool head and responding to angry posts with calm, well thought out, well reasoned ones. Did it hone my skills? You damn right it did. Was one of the best things I could have done, because to defend my stands, I did a LOT of research.

    In case some of you decide to take on the challenge of presenting the freedom philosophy within the format of online discussion forums where you KNOW the ideas may not meet with approval, and may in fact be met with some truly vile hostility...here are a few of the sources that I found most helpful for research:

    Mises.org

    FEE.org

    LewRockwell.com

    Again I want to stress that IMO this may not be the best time for beginners to jump into spreading the word in the online discussion forum format, ESPECIALLY if you are at all thin skinned.

    Where possible, I'd try to cut the candidate out of it and defend the freedom stance on whatever issue is being discussed. Once you are able to win THAT part of the debate (use the above sources to ensure your victory ), you can bring in the fact that your victory is in line with the freedom philosophy that Dr. Paul represents.

    FYI, I rarely post at that forum these days. I did stop in a few months back, jumped into an existing discussion (because some of my old staunch adversaries were already posting in the thread), and had one of the 'newbies' attack me, making the usual beginners ridiculous accusations.

    I was shocked to see this: my former adversaries rushed to my defense and let her know quickly that her accusations were out of line and that while my positions are ... a bit unusual - that they know my views to be sound and well reasoned, and that I am always welcome there.

    The key is to never ever let them get you angry. If you spew venom back at them, you lose their respect. If you stay chilled and keep on point, you gain their respect.

    Not getting angry is hard to do when one is passionate about an issue. Many are passionate about Dr. Paul's candidacy. I'm one of them.

    Okay, that's all...it's just my take on it from what I have been through in the battle to spread the word.

  14. #12
    I have to agree MsDoodahs Keep your cool no matter what the attack is. If you do not have a good response remember the old addage it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

    Educate yourself on his positions. Be prepared to deal with attacks from all directions because they will come. Personaly I hang out at a liberal blog and have a rep there so that has helped. However let me tell you liberals are not at all cool with alot of what RP says. They like the anti Iraq but when you get to cutting down the size of the government it can get scary.

    To give you a tip there Underwriters Lab is a private company that deals with consumer electronics. That example will give you alot of ammo against the FAA, FDA, OSHA etc.

    The racisim has been atributed to a ghost writer and it was things he never said but were published in his news letter.

    Anti-Semitisim well suprise suprise Eric Dondero (now running against RP) dealt with that one try googling Eric Dondero + Ron Paul + Anti semitisim.

    Rons own words on the pork. His district pays taxes and they deserve to get that money back.

    Hope it helps.

  15. #13
    Does this screen name sound familiar?:

    bigdavediode


    He's been going out of his way on all comment pages regarding Ron Paul to discredit and smear the man. Watch out for him. You can try to shut him up with facts, but he's a little dense so it will be a major effort.

    Here's a link where you can see some of the comments he's been making.

    Link
    Last edited by monknj80; 05-20-2007 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Added a link.

  16. #14
    Didn't visit the link, but based on the "going out of his way to smear the man" kind of mentality you describe, I'm of the opinion that doesn't reflect badly on Dr. Paul - but rather on the individual doing the smearing.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MsDoodahs View Post
    Didn't visit the link, but based on the "going out of his way to smear the man" kind of mentality you describe, I'm of the opinion that doesn't reflect badly on Dr. Paul - but rather on the individual doing the smearing.
    Fair enough. It's just aggravating. RP seems like a fair and honest man with convictions. Thanks for the insight though, it does put it in perspective.

  18. #16
    By the admission of his own staff he makes sure funds are put into every bill for his district. Hardly a person who does not like pork. Then because he knows the bill is going to pass anyway, he votes against it, so he can have his cake and eat it too. He can bring home the pork for his district, and post on his blogs how he voted against the bill and please his stalwarts who never look past his words to his actions to see what a phony he is.
    That's true, he does do that. I can't remember the name of the article I saw that in but it had Ron talking about it. Basically he does it because he's working for the people and the people tell him what they want. He doesn't like doing it but that's what they ask for (pork projects). He also mentioned that they pay taxes so he works very hard for them to get their money to work for them. He then votes against it on principle (if he knows it will pass).

    I don't see anything wrong with that.



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  20. #17
    I'm on digg. I saw bigdavediode's stuff. Fellow ron paul supporters on digg, don't spam three or four Ron Paul stories which are essentially the same (take for example, this morning's interview with RP on CNN's Late Edition). At the same time, Diode's little "article" is about a year old, and holds no merit now.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MsDoodahs View Post
    Didn't visit the link, but based on the "going out of his way to smear the man" kind of mentality you describe, I'm of the opinion that doesn't reflect badly on Dr. Paul - but rather on the individual doing the smearing.
    I have to agree and from a marketing point of view I think its one of the BEST
    things that can happen to this campaign... and here's exactly why:

    When a smear campaign starts, especially from the same jabber mouths, it
    generates massive curiosity in the public. This "natural" curiosity simply
    drives more people into exploring and researching Ron Paul. Ron's
    truth takes it from there.

    The more they bash, attack and smear the bigger the movement grows.

    - Dave
    Ron Paul Fever
    "The 2nd American Revolution Has Begun... Are You A Part Of It?"
    "Feel It... Catch It... Spread It!!!"

  22. #19
    Not to brag but I have always been a very good judge of character. I see no malice in Ron Paul's intentions -- none whatsoever.

    However, the person that posted that smear campaign against Ron Paul has malice written all over him/her.

    Ron Paul's intentions are productive and constructive towards a common good. The slanderer's intentions are destructive and counter-productive. I wish him/her good luck with that.
    "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

    Religion divides humanity. Country enforces that division. Faith, nationalism and pride are the drugs of choice.



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