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Proponent of real science.
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Transmissibility is a function of infectivity. The two words are interchangeable for what I was talking about.
The part that I was calling fear mongering was this section, "Now, Nipah virus is 80 percent lethal. So this is not, you know, if you didn’t like the pandemic, that was just one percent lethal. This thing they were working on in December 2019 has an 80 percent lethality. It needs to be stopped.” which implies that this virus is much scarier than COVID 19, as if being 80% lethal by itself was reason enough to think that, regardless of transmissibility. It isn't. That's why Ebola was, overall, much less of a serious problem than COVID 19. It wasn't less serious for each individual who got it--for them it was more serious--but globally it was much less serious.
I also object to all of the fear mongering we've been subjected to regarding COVID 19 for the past year and a half. And the fact that it came from a lab doing GoF research doesn't make all that fear mongering any more justified. Humanity suffered far more harm from the reaction to the virus than from the virus itself.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 10-12-2021 at 12:38 PM.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
Not really but OK sure.
It's a swing and a miss! Still missing the point I see.The part that I was calling fear mongering was this section, "Now, Nipah virus is 80 percent lethal. So this is not, you know, if you didn’t like the pandemic, that was just one percent lethal. This thing they were working on in December 2019 has an 80 percent lethality. It needs to be stopped.” which implies that this virus is much scarier than COVID 19, as if being 80% lethal by itself was reason enough to think that, regardless of transmissibility. It isn't. That's why Ebola was, overall, much less of a serious problem than COVID 19. It wasn't less serious for each individual who got it--for them it was more serious--but globally it was much less serious.
I also object to all of the fear mongering we've been subjected to regarding COVID 19 for the past year and a half. And the fact that it came from a lab doing GoF research doesn't make all that fear mongering any more justified. Humanity suffered far more harm from the reaction to the virus than from the virus itself.
Try to keep your eye on the ball.
Gain of Function needs to be stopped, regardless of how many people are expected to die from it.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
Do you agree or disagree with the way it is put here?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-021-00535-6Transmissibility is determined by the infectivity of the pathogen, the contagiousness of the infected individual, the susceptibility of the exposed individual, the contact patterns between the infected individual and the exposed individual, and the environmental stress exerted on the pathogen during transmission.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
I disagree as I think that statement is an over-simplification, especially in the context of GoF where transmissibility is specifically the transmission between animals and humans.
A horse virus can be infinitely infectious among horses, and yet it would still not be transmissible to humans, without Gain of Function being applied to it.
But this line of discussion is almost entirely autistic... I do not see any point in continuing such frivolous debate.
Last edited by TheTexan; 10-12-2021 at 02:12 PM.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
That's one kind of transmissibility. But unless you specify "animal to human" the word "transmissibility" by itself doesn't mean that either in the context of GoF or elsewhere. The definition given for "transmissibility" in your own wikipedia source, where it distinguished between transmissibility and infectivity didn't even match your definition here.
Agreed. I'm not sure what your point was in disputing over the meaning of the word "transmissibility" to begin with.
Your example about horses only highlights the point I was making. A virus that has high transmissibility from horse to human, but low transmissibility from human to human, and that kills 80% of the humans it infects may not pose a very serious pandemic threat because of that low transmissibility between humans. Making it more transmissible between humans could just as much be a part of GoF research as making it more transmissible from horses to humans would be. And that transmissibility between humans would be the far more important factor. And more generally, that factor of transmissibility is not something that can be left out of the discussion when trying to compare it to COVID 19 the way the OP did.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 10-12-2021 at 02:26 PM.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
Yes, I'm sure it does. Notice that the OP is content to mention just the virulence without respect to that other crucial factor.
TheTexan was right to criticize the OP by saying, "Any discussion on the 'virulence' of the viruses undergoing GoF research is missing the point entirely." And Brian4Liberty was astute in replying to that line by suggesting that such a focus on virulence worked well as a diversion.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
If I had told you in 2019 everything that was going to play out regarding the CCP19 virus, you would have called it fear mongering as well.
I don't know what more can be done.
We know that labs in the US were experimenting with GoF, before it was even called that, on H1N1 flu virii, the one that caused the Spanish flu pandemic, to make it even more transmissible and virulent.
We know that the funding was yanked and the research, rightly so, banned.
We know that the research continued on in China, funded in part by our tax dollars, funneled through various "front" groups, facilitated in part by that demon Fauchi.
We know that this research led to, among other things, the CCP19 virus, which has killed almost a quarter of million US citizens so far, when it got released fropm the Wuhan lab either accidentally or on purpose.
We have credible commentary from Dr. Stephen Quay, indicating that the lab in Wuhan was years ahead in gain of function research on the deadly Hipah virus.
We know that the global elites, regardless of political philosophy, are all in agreement that there are "too many people" on planet Earth.
They will release this, or some other similar agent, that will not be restricted by the natural progression of pandemic pathogens like Ebola or rabies or Hanta virus.
CCP19 was a dry run.
They will do this soon, within the next year or two...the lunatic Malthusians that they have whipped up into a frenzy, that are convinced the planet will die in the next ten years, will demand it.
And 7 billion people will die, including everybody in this thread speaking now, and everybody that we all love and hold dear.
Unless we start, and I am as serious as a goddamn heart attack here, unless we start dismantling these facilities, wherever they are in the world, with the clear threat that if a nation state harboring one of these research labs refuses, for any reason, or no reason at all, to allow these "Liquidators" onto the facility, then it will be destroyed by fire with a nuke or a GBU34, with no further warning.
That's how I see it...call it fear mongering if you want...ignore at your own risk.
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-12-2021 at 05:27 PM.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Yes. And then when it actually happened, and the media and politicians reported all those things with great exaggerations and selective omissions of important facts, it was still fear mongering. And part of why they were so successful at taking away our freedom was because they were successful at the fear mongering.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
That was my thought in the 70s..
and I still remember CBR training. The Biological part of that being the ugliest..and longest active Military Weapon of Mass destruction Governments use..
some are surprised at the Funding. something that has been universally outlawed,, by governments.
Ft Detrick has been an ongoing problem.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
I'm not dismissing everything you said. But if it's as bad as Dan Bongino, or that writer on his site wants to make it out to be (and by extension you, for sharing the article and bolding the worst parts), then why can't they they make the case in an objective way, instead of selectively omitting crucial points that would make it sound not as bad as they're saying? If this really is a virus that can kill off a major part of the earth's population, or even just more people than COVID 19, they shouldn't have a problem doing that.
But that crowd loves fear just as much as the Left does. And at the end of the day, they'll end up using that fear for statist ends too.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
How can you be more objective than that?
Maybe you're mistaking rage for fear.Dr. Quay on a potentially more deadly virus in the Wuhan lab: “..inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology in patients specimens in December 2019. What I found there was that the lab was contaminated with Nipah virus research that’s about two years ahead of SARS-CoV-2. Now, Nipah virus is 80 percent lethal. So this is not, you know, if you didn’t like the pandemic, that was just one percent lethal. This thing they were working on in December 2019 has an 80 percent lethality. It needs to be stopped.”
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
I don't have to look at China as the Bogey man. I doubt if you could get a straight answer as to whether the same, with information sharing, isn't being conducted by the Deep State at the C.D.C.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
You just answered your own question.
Dr. Quay, when you actually hear him speaking his own words, is far more objective in that radio interview than the article that selectively quotes him in the OP is, with omission of qualifying points (which I have already pointed out multiple times in the thread). The OP is the opposite of objective. If you can't see that, it's because it's doing the same thing you constantly do here, apparently believing yourself to be objective too.
Notice that Bongino himself is much more cautious in this interview, making a point to bring up some of the same counterpoints that I did, and Quay even more so.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
Yeah, you've dismissed the entire premise, probably based on fear.
I can understand that...who wants to believe that nefarious actors, working in secret, plan to kill us all with choking, man made plagues?
One of us will ultimately be proved right.
Trouble is, if it's me, then it will be too late.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
That's the thing. It's a premise. A mere assumption. Not a conclusion that can be drawn as either definite or probable from the evidence given.
You don't talk as if you're hypothesizing and may or may not ultimately be proven right. You make absolute statements as matters of fact that you can demonstrate to be true. But again and again, your demonstration is sorely lacking. You have some good points. But they'd be stronger, not weaker, if you could bring yourself to be objective about them. The fact that you feel the need not to be betrays that you don't think you could prove the conclusions you want to prove with the level of certainty that you want to pretend to have if you confined yourself to rules like that.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 10-15-2021 at 07:55 AM.
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
Of course I can't prove it to that level.
The only way I could do that would be to get unfettered access to the Wuhan lab along with a team of virologists and translators.
I wish I could do that.
Half a year ago I was.You don't talk as if you're hypothesizing
Now, people who do have that level of access are starting to confirm what I have thought all along.
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-15-2021 at 08:00 AM.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
I have not watched it because I question the source and do not want to give him views. A man who I know approves of street justice by the police rather than the rule of law. If Dan was a member of RPF he would be on the side of the police in the police abuse threads.
* See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
* Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.
Fine.
Here's the AP from 26 July 2021, with a paid press release from Quay himself.
Physician-Scientist Steven Quay: Forensic examination of Wuhan Institute of Virology COVID-19 patient specimens from December 2019 reveals extensive laboratory contamination, including evidence of genetic manipulation of the Nipah Virus, a BSL-4 pathogen more lethal than Ebola
https://apnews.com/press-release/pr-...93314de1d5b4c9
July 26, 2021
SEATTLE, July 26, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Physician-Scientist Steven Quay and a group of international scientists have published a pre-print, available here, entitled, “CONTAMINATION OR VACCINE RESEARCH? RNA Sequencing data of early COVID-19 patient samples show abnormal presence of vectorized H7N9 hemagglutinin segment.”
In the paper, a forensic examination of the sequencing data from five COVID-19 bronchial lavage patient specimens reveals that the laboratory at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) was contaminated with a wide range of viruses, including Nipah virus genes in a cloning vector. Nipah is a BSL-4 pathogen with a lethality of 50% to 92%. A video summary of the paper can be found here.
The highlights of the paper are:
Five patient specimens were sequenced by the WIV in December 2019 and were part of an early report on SARS-CoV-2 published by Dr. Zhengli Shi and colleagues (Nature 579, 270–273 (2020). This paper has been viewed over one million times, making it one of the most highly read papers on the pandemic virus.
The most abundant contaminant is an undisclosed H7N9 influenza vaccine, which in one specimen is over six-times as abundant as SARS-CoV-2.
The Nipah virus gene sequences were found in infectious cloning vectors of the type used for genetic manipulation.
Nineteen other contaminants, including Japanese Encephalitis virus, HIV, human T-cell leukemia virus, and hepatitis delta virus were found.
“It was surprising to find a menagerie of deadly viruses, strange pathogens, and even honeysuckle, plant genes in patient specimens sequenced at the WIV in December 2019, especially since this patient sequencing data has been publicly available to the entire scientific community inside of the US NIH GenBank database since February 2020,” stated Dr. Steven Quay, MD, PhD. “The apparent widespread contamination of the laboratory at the very time the pandemic was just beginning is of course worrisome. But more important is getting answers to these questions: Why do these patient specimens contain an unreported influenza vaccine? What was the purpose of creating an undisclosed, apparently infectious clone of the deadly Nipah virus? Is this Nipah research part of another gain-of-function research project at the Wuhan Institute of Virology?”
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
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