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Thread: My Reaction To A Conversation With Political Libertarians

  1. #1

    My Reaction To A Conversation With Political Libertarians

    “Republicans are just as bad as Democrats” and “Neither party represents me” are two common phrases uttered by the politically puerile. It’s time to grow up.

    I have solidly libertarian values. In a perfect world, there would be a viable party of small-government constitutionalists that embraced the philosophy of live and let live. I would vote for that party. No doubt a lot of people would.

    Alas, we don’t live in a perfect world. We live in this world, with all of its flawed, imperfect people doing the best they can. I accept this world. Hardcore libertarians do not. As frustrating as it is to have conversations with avowed leftists/Democrats, at least they suffer from so much TDS and are so addicted to Covid fear porn that you expect their mushy brains to produce mushy ideas. Sure, they vote for the destruction of America – some willingly, some ignorantly – but it’s like witnessing a puppy wet the carpet. The puppy can’t help it anymore than cerebral flatliners can. I fully expect 40% of Americans to be worthlessly stupid. (See: Why voting should be harder, not easier.)

    Conversely, libertarians can help it. They value principles of limited government, personal responsibility, individual liberty, and the ability of a local community to meet most needs. I like all of those ideas, too. They can also rationalize most positions.

    So where is the disconnect? My friends will send tweets of stadiums and New York City marches with the chant of F*** Joe Biden ringing joyously in the foreground. It gives me hope that people are waking up. So I reply by commenting how I hope they all regret not voting for Trump. Amazingly, that is as repugnant as voting for Biden to them.

    These “enlightened” fools think they’re smarter than everyone else because they note that both establishment parties are corrupt. They point to neo-conservative and RINO politicians that are responsible for giving us both Bush presidencies, Bob Dole campaign, John McCain, and a Romney/Ryan ticket. Believe me, I hate it as much as the next guy. And guess what? Newsflash: You’re not a political savant for noticing how power corrupts – particularly in Washington, D.C. We all see it. What matters is how we respond to it.

    The answer to political corruption is not systemic collapse, as many “collapsitarian” libertarians desire. That’s exactly for what Black Lives Matter and other anarchist leftists advocate. Do you realize what is at the end of that journey? Chaos and misery. Thanks, but I’ll pass.

    The answer to political corruption is a correction of the system. We could start by voting for true conservative candidates. The values and governance as identified in the Constitution are infinitely better than whatever these smug libertarians are capable of envisioning. It’s almost like the establishment Republican party didn’t like the emergence of Donald Trump in 2015…gee, I wonder why? Was he an outsider that represented real Americans?


    In older history, the third-party vote has worked against both parties. Ross Perot gift-wrapped the 1992 election for Clinton and Ralph Nader arguably handed the White House to Junior. The problem now is that the juggernaut left has coalesced around identity politics. There is no longer a viable left-wing party because every idea has been absorbed by the monolithic, narrative-creating Democrat Party. Climate change is as embraced by Dems as the Green Party – what else do they have? The same goes for every other agenda.

    Any ideological rift in politics lives on the right. The Republicans have the money, name recognition, and most importantly, the best chance of stopping Democrats. For a realist like me, that’s all that matters. I can wish we moved to a flat tax – or outlawed federal income tax altogether – but a living, albeit incomplete wishlist beats the burning of that same list any day of the week. I ask again: What is so hard to understand about this?

    Libertarianism as a living political movement fails individuals because it is as rigid a doctrine as leftism. It therefore fails all of us because the result is less Republican votes (which, in turn, produces Democrat victories). My friends, who see through the scams of Covid, climate change, social justice, public education, and every other significant movement in lockstep with me, nonetheless stop an inch short in doing what’s best for the country. They can admit that Trump provided a much-needed shift in the landscape, but then comment on how he failed to build the promised wall (something the platform opposes anyways) or still pass trillion dollar stimulus bills. So what? And Biden is did build it? What am I missing?

    If nothing else, it’s certainly better than what Democrats propose and enact. I don’t know a single libertarian that is happy at present with the direction or leadership of this country. Joe Biden is the opposite of a libertarian candidate – he is as big government as people get.

    It’s time to stop infighting and unite around a larger enemy – the left. Anything else is national suicide.
    https://www.conservativedailynews.co...-libertarians/



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  3. #2
    "Ron Paul is puerile....." "Ron Paul is an 'enlightened' fool....." "Ron Paul is a collapsitarian...."

    Everybody here got over worrying about those lines when we heard them ad nauseam in 2008.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  4. #3
    The values and governance as identified in the Constitution are infinitely better than whatever these smug libertarians are capable of envisioning.
    Anti-Constitution libertarians?

    Why did I read this infantile "stay in your lane, plebe, this is the real world" smear this far?

    This is the really really world I'm talking about. Let me tell you about the jillions of libertarians I know who hate the Constitution. SMH
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-17-2021 at 03:45 PM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    "Ron Paul is puerile....." "Ron Paul is an 'enlightened' fool....." "Ron Paul is a collapsitarian...."

    Everybody here got over worrying about those lines when we heard them ad nauseam in 2008.
    Ron Paul is none of those things.. If Ron Paul was a collapsitarian, he wouldn't have run for congress.

    Ron Paul also joined the Republican Party. He actually gets it.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ron Paul is none of those things.. If Ron Paul was a collapsitarian, he wouldn't have run for congress.

    Ron Paul also joined the Republican Party. He actually gets it.
    Hush, you.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ron Paul also joined the Republican Party. He actually gets it.
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Hush, you.
    Yeah, dannno. Ron Paul has penned more than one very elegant, very damning indictment of the GOP. Reminding people they exist and encouraging people go copy and paste one doesn't serve Phil's narrative.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yeah, dannno. Ron Paul has penned more than one very elegant, very damning indictment of the GOP. Reminding people they exist and encouraging people go copy and paste one doesn't serve Phil's narrative.
    Of course the GOP is awful, but it's unfortunately the best platform we have to get things fixed at the moment. That is precisely how Ron Paul felt.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Of course the GOP is awful, but it's unfortunately the best platform we have to get things fixed at the moment. That is precisely how Ron Paul felt.
    I reject that, because if that were the only tool we had to fix it, we'd have no hope whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    There is no credibility left for the Republican Party as a force to reduce the size of government.
    So he came back and tested his treatise again, for a quarter of a freaking century. What did he prove, if not that he was right the first time?
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    https://www.conservativedailynews.co...-libertarians/
    Libertarianism as a living political movement fails individuals because it is as rigid a doctrine as leftism. It therefore fails all of us because the result is less Republican votes (which, in turn, produces Democrat victories). My friends, who see through the scams of Covid, climate change, social justice, public education, and every other significant movement in lockstep with me, nonetheless stop an inch short in doing what’s best for the country. They can admit that Trump provided a much-needed shift in the landscape, but then comment on how he failed to build the promised wall (something the platform opposes anyways) or still pass trillion dollar stimulus bills. So what? And Biden is did build it? What am I missing?
    What are you missing? How about the fact that Trump was absolutely in on the COVID scam from the get go and it could not have happened without his aiding and abetting? GOF research stopped under Obama. It restarted when Trump was president. And no. I do not "regret not voting for Trump." Why? Because I actually understand the constitution and can count. There was no way Trump would lose my state with our without my vote. The GOP primary was a mere formality so I voted Tulsi Gabbard. That was also a protest vote. I voted Jorgensen in the general. No regrets. I have no problem with those who voted for Trump either. That just wasn't me.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10
    I have never understood the tactic of sneering at some group over what useless wankers they supposedly are while at the same time lamenting that you don't have more support and "unity" from them.

    Is that actually supposed to persuade anyone of anything? Because it seems more like sour grapes to me.

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I have never understood the tactic of sneering at some group over what useless wankers they supposedly are while at the same time lamenting that you don't have more support and "unity" from them.

    Is that actually supposed to persuade anyone of anything? Because it seems more like sour grapes to me.
    It's not about convincing libertarians that the same stupidity that got us into this mess will get us out. It's about making people who aren't conservative, but self-identify as conservatives, afraid to "leave their lane" and do something in their own self-interest for a change.

    God forbid they stop depending on CNN to tell them who CNN hates the most, and act on their principles for a change. They might discover doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result, isn't as much fun as they thought it was

    Team players will throw the game time after time after time, if you've buffaloed them into thinking scoring real points will lose your Team the game.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-17-2021 at 05:13 PM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I have never understood the tactic of sneering at some group over what useless wankers they supposedly are while at the same time lamenting that you don't have more support and "unity" from them.

    Is that actually supposed to persuade anyone of anything? Because it seems more like sour grapes to me.
    We are past perssuading anyone I imagine.
    Do something Danke

  15. #13
    It’s almost like the establishment Republican party didn’t like the emergence of Donald Trump in 2015…gee, I wonder why? Was he an outsider that represented real Americans?
    He was positioned and perceived by people that did not know an better to believe he is an outsider. American politics are like a magic show, all smoke and mirrors. Trump mastered that concept throughout his lifetime. Nothing is ever going to change until people wake up that they are continually played by con-artists each cycle that are all on the same side.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  16. #14
    The answer to political corruption is a correction of the system. We could start by voting for true conservative candidates. The values and governance as identified in the Constitution are infinitely better than whatever these smug libertarians are capable of envisioning. It’s almost like the establishment Republican party didn’t like the emergence of Donald Trump in 2015…gee, I wonder why? Was he an outsider that represented real Americans?
    The author identifies the solution to the problem and then immediately forgets it in the next sentence.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  17. #15
    Conversely, libertarians can help it. They value principles of limited government, personal responsibility, individual liberty, and the ability of a local community to meet most needs. I like all of those ideas, too. They can also rationalize most positions.

    So where is the disconnect?

    The answer to political corruption is a correction of the system. We could start by voting for true conservative candidates.

    The Republicans have the money, name recognition, and most importantly, the best chance of stopping Democrats. For a realist like me, that’s all that matters.

    Libertarianism as a living political movement fails individuals because it is as rigid a doctrine as leftism. It therefore fails all of us because the result is less Republican votes.

    They can admit that Trump provided a much-needed shift in the landscape, but then comment on how he failed to build the promised wall (something the platform opposes anyways) or still pass trillion dollar stimulus bills. So what?

    Joe Biden is the opposite of a libertarian candidate – he is as big government as people get.

    It’s time to stop infighting and unite around a larger enemy – the left. Anything else is national suicide.



    Who in the HE double-hockey-sticks wrote that STATIST rag?! Swordy, is that you?



    Libertarian. Individualism. Government is the very antithesis. And he/she/it wants moi to vote harder, or at all?

    I want that 2 minutes that I spent reading that garbage back!
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  18. #16
    We could start by voting for true conservative candidates.
    "True" conservative candidates? LOL. File together with "real" Communism (you know, the kind that has "never been tried yet").

    Conservatism is just the rearguard of progressivism.

    G.K. Chesterton identified this fact a century ago.

    Nothing has changed.

    The values and governance as identified in the Constitution are infinitely better than whatever these smug libertarians are capable of envisioning.
    "Infinitely better" my ass. Outside of the first ten amendments, there's not a damn thing in the Constitution worth preserving.

    The only proof one needs of this is the fact that the document had to be amended just to include the Bill of Rights in the first place.

    I'll take smug libertarian non-compliance over parchment idolatry/fetishization any day. And if that makes me persona non grata with "conservatives" like the hectoring schmuck in the OP, then I won't count that as any kind of loss.

    In any case, whatever its merits, the Constitution has become a dead letter. At this point, it's all nails and no coffin.

    There's no going back. Republics become Empires, not the other way around.

    And then, sooner or later, Empires collapse ...

    It’s almost like the establishment Republican party didn’t like the emergence of Donald Trump in 2015…gee, I wonder why? Was he an outsider that represented real Americans?
    America is a continent-spanning nation populated by a third of a billion people. LMAO at anyone who seriously thinks that any federal office or politician does (or even can) "represent" that population - whether it is composed of "real" Americans (whoever the hell that's supposed to be) or not.

    Democracy at such a scale is a pathetically untenable joke, and that isn't going to change no matter how hard anyone votes for the "right" candidates. Either it will come apart at the seams, or it will devolve completely into illiberal authoritarianism (of either left-socialist or right-fascist variety). I prefer the former. and I hope that it might occur as peacefully as possible. If that makes me one of those "collapsitarians" the author of the OP article curls his lip at, well, then, so be it.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 09-17-2021 at 08:30 PM.



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  20. #17
    @Occam's Banana

    Excellent post.

    The "right-fascist" variety = "3rd Positionist" of which I oppose.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  21. #18
    "Indians of the Red Reservation. Yes, we know you're starving. We are the ones who are starving you. Those who went off the reservation may therefore appeal to you, in light of the fact that you will die of starvation eventually. But if our cavalry ever finds them, they will die sooner. Therefore, it's important that you stay on the reservation and hope you die later, rather than sooner."

    "Voters of Team Red. You know this empire is crumbling. We are the ones tearing it down. But it's important that you keep nominating whomever CNN tells you constantly that they hate, or Team Blue might cause the empire to crumble faster. Therefore it's important that you not try it their way and see if He Who Must Not Be Named, if nominated, might win the election, because then the empire might not outlive you."

    Stay on the reservation, Republicans. That way, even if you win, you lose.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  22. #19
    "We could start by voting for true conservative candidates" is followed by, "unite against a larger enemy-the left.". So when the GOP puts a d-bag RINO as their candidate, are we supposed to vote for them or not?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    "We could start by voting for true conservative candidates" is followed by, "unite against a larger enemy-the left.". So when the GOP puts a d-bag RINO as their candidate, are we supposed to vote for them or not?
    You totally missed the point. That's not a d-bag. That's OUR d-bag.

    What? Your d-bag doesn't fill you with pride?
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  24. #21
    Grow up and accept the fact that you're a slave and always wIll be. It's hopelessly, childishly naive to aspire to anything resembling true liberty anyway. Be satisfied with the few scraps Team Red allows you and shut the $#@! up.

    What drivel.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    "We could start by voting for true conservative candidates" is followed by, "unite against a larger enemy-the left.". So when the GOP puts a d-bag RINO as their candidate, are we supposed to vote for them or not?
    Supposedly, you're supposed to get involved early enough so that the GOP can't put a d-bag RINO as their candidate.

    It takes a lot of effort. Often it is fruitless. But it seems to me to be neither more nor less effective as pontificating on an internet forum for a decade or more.

    The only reason I haven't jumped on the "haha-look-at-the-stupid-voters-thinking-that'll-change-anything" bandwagon, is because I have even less faith in people to go the same route our forefathers went, when it was no longer possible to change things through petitioning.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    Some of you still watch the news, and it shows.

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

  26. #23
    The values and governance as identified in the Constitution are infinitely better than whatever these smug libertarians are capable of envisioning.
    @phill4paul, I still can't believe you posted this $#@!. Tell us something. You've been hanging here with us for fourteen years. Do you actually believe that crap I quoted?

    The libertarian wing wants to trash the Constitution? The RINO wing are the true Constitutional champions? Seriously?

    God damn, man.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-17-2021 at 07:49 PM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The author identifies the solution to the problem and then immediately forgets it in the next sentence.
    Nice catch.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  29. #25
    Basically a rally cry to rope in the Libertarians by pointing out how much our disgust for the left is similar and the GOP has brand name and money so follow us to GOP mid term victory. Promise, we have your back just as we did for Dr. Paul.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  30. #26
    This article makes me want to vote very hard for Dave Smith.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Basically a rally cry to rope in the Libertarians by pointing out how much our disgust for the left is similar and the GOP has brand name and money so follow us to GOP mid term victory. Promise, we have your back just as we did for Dr. Paul.
    I disagree. It's in no way an appeal to us. It isn't just that even as he pretends to kiss our butts, he insults us early, often and deeply. But it's more pernicious than that.

    Libertarianism as a living political movement fails individuals because it is as rigid a doctrine as leftism. It therefore fails all of us because the result is less Republican votes (which, in turn, produces Democrat victories). My friends, who see through the scams of Covid, climate change, social justice, public education, and every other significant movement in lockstep with me, nonetheless stop an inch short in doing what’s best for the country.
    So, the fact that RINOs have done every bit of their share in moving us a long, long way away from the Constitution--more, really, because they're less likely to be resisted by the people who hired them--is just one of those $#@! happens in the real world things. Trying to actually do something about it, like listen to libertarians and nominate decent candidates, instead of nominating whomever CNN whines about the most as usual, is not important. What's important is blaming libertarians when CNN picks you a loser like McCain or Romney. Never mind that you fell for it and nominated the guaranteed loser, instead of listening to those "smug" people who know better and trying it their way for the first time since 1924 (when we had people were in office, people were free, and the U.S. economy was making the world wealthy).
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-17-2021 at 08:20 PM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ]So, the fact that RINOs have done every bit of their share in moving us a long, long way away from the Constitution--more, really, because they're less likely to be resisted by the people who hired them--is just one of those $#@! happens in the real world things. Trying to actually do something about it, like listen to libertarians and nominate decent candidates, instead of nominating whomever CNN whines about the most as usual, is not important. What's important is blaming libertarians when CNN picks you a loser like McCain or Romney. Never mind that you fell for it and nominated the guaranteed loser, instead of listening to those "smug" people who know better and trying it their way for the first time since 1924 (when we had people were in office, people were free, and the U.S. economy was making the world wealthy).
    If only McCain and Romney had won, we'd be sooooo much better off lol

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I disagree. It's in no way an appeal to us. It isn't just that even as he pretends to kiss our butts, he insults us early, often and deeply. But it's more pernicious than that.



    So, the fact that RINOs have done every bit of their share in moving us a long, long way away from the Constitution--more, really, because they're less likely to be resisted by the people who hired them--is just one of those $#@! happens in the real world things. Trying to actually do something about it, like listen to libertarians and nominate decent candidates, instead of nominating whomever CNN whines about the most as usual, is not important. What's important is blaming libertarians when CNN picks you a loser like McCain or Romney. Never mind that you fell for it and nominated the guaranteed loser, instead of listening to those "smug" people who know better and trying it their way for the first time since 1924 (when we had people were in office, people were free, and the U.S. economy was making the world wealthy).
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    If only McCain and Romney had won, we'd be sooooo much better off lol
    I bet Romney gets nominated for 2024.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

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