Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Evergrande is Lehman 2.0?

  1. #1

    Evergrande is Lehman 2.0?

    Lehman collapsed under $60 billion of bad loans and derivatives on Sept 15 2008. Evergrande is $300 billion deep in bad loans and derivatives (probably 5x that figure....some sources saying 20x higher or more when accounting for derivatives chained together). Sounds about right adjusted for inflation and today will be 13 years to the day of Lehman's collapse. Who are the big players with lots of exposure to Evergrande this time around?

    It also reminds me more than a little of Enron.

    Markets looking nervous! Might be an interesting day today.


    (15th also start of Yom Kippur. "Fresh start" observance.)

    eta: 9-20-21 another .cn developer crashing - Sinic 2301.HK
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chine...080415576.html
    Last edited by devil21; 09-20-2021 at 11:33 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Whole world is bearish right now and next week is statistically the worst week of the year. Market looks like death heading into the weekend.

    The Six Largest Wall Street Banks Issue Market Red Alerts https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/si...ket-red-alerts


    Merrill Warns Huge Fall in S&P 500 is Imminent https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/merrill-RBC joins chorus of banks predicting a sharp pullback in stocks - but says it'll be a buying opportunitwarns-huge-fall-in-sp-500-is-imminent-2021-08-16

    RBC joins chorus of banks predicting a sharp pullback in stocks - but says it'll be a buying opportunity https://markets.businessinsider.com/...ngs-rbc-2021-9



    This is the most bullish I have been in some time. On a scale of 1 to 10. I am an 11 on the bullish scale. Not quite pocket aces. Maybe pocket kings with this set up in the market.

  4. #3
    Dow still sitting at 34585 . Quite amazing really .Still up 24 percent this yr
    Last edited by oyarde; 09-17-2021 at 06:47 PM.
    Do something Danke

  5. #4
    Just a scan of the financial news sites, might need a few more down days to spark a panic and then get a big rally. Not seeing a whole lot of negativity yet in the media.

  6. #5

  7. #6
    dp
    Last edited by devil21; 09-18-2021 at 10:09 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #7
    I'm just waiting for Cramer to tell us monday that Evergrande is fine!


    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    $300B debt...
    too big to fail... sounds familiar.

    I thought of Lehman episode also when saw the Evergrande news earlier.
    It also has hints of Enron, meaning that the infrastructure was built out on the backs of investors and then once that was completed it's revealed to be a big fraud and collapses. Very soon after, the assets built are picked up for pennies on the dollar by the mega-banks and RE funds, while investors get stiffed. Doesn't matter since the infrastructure was built and is in place. That's the game in a nutshell.
    Last edited by devil21; 09-18-2021 at 06:35 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  9. #8
    https://www.fuw.ch/article/china-is-...to-hit-a-wall/

    And how are such ghost towns financed?
    There is probably no company that is more representative of the investment bubble than Evergrande. It’s the biggest pyramid scheme the world has yet seen. Evergrande is highly leveraged and has like 270 projects all over the country (d21: as of 2017). I have been easily to 40 of them yet I have only seen one that was fully occupied. Many of these projects are megalomaniac visions and totally empty. Yet you go to these places and you see their sales room filled with young buyers. When I open my eyes I see crumbling stone and empty jungles or deserts. What they see is a future with wealthy Europeanized people strolling on modern paths. It’s just amazing. It’s a mass illusion and Evergrande more than any of these developers plays to this illusion by building developments that are specifically positioned for the investor, not to live there but to buy for some future appreciation in price.
    Whole thing worth a read, though it doesn't focus on Evergrande.


    (Methinks the nonsensical Evergreen/Evergiven incident was a tip-off to what was being engineered)
    Last edited by devil21; 09-18-2021 at 07:36 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    What American firms are exposed to this?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=uxbndlbing

    Some economists have warned that the collapse of Evergrande could become China's "Lehman moment" – a reference to the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers as a result of the subprime mortgage crisis, which triggered the 2008 global financial crisis.

    However, Capital Economics' Simon MacAdam described that narrative as "wide of the mark."

    Dow Futures
    34,179.00
    -283.00(-0.82%)
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 09-19-2021 at 08:53 PM.

  12. #10
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  13. #11
    Note that Evergrande's Hang Sang stock symbols are 3333.HK and 6666.HK. Also note the Evergreen incident where the boat drew a giant GPS track penis right before it grounded itself. Hmm, 3333, penis/phallus symbolism, and Evergreens. Who could that have been a signal to? Perhaps people who worship the number 33 and Osiris' penis, pyramids (schemes) and are known as celebrants of evergreen trees (druids...Hollywood, black magic...look it up)?



    If the symbolism of that incident is extrapolated further, perhaps we can predict that Deutsche Bank will finally collapse under this. Perhaps I'm reading too far at this point but note the aerial pictures of Evergreen's grounding.





    Naaa crazy talk. Probably all coincidence.
    Last edited by devil21; 09-21-2021 at 08:41 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  14. #12
    Yesterday, Cramer gave his Evergrande is fine! speech on Mad Money....now two days of market rips.
    Last edited by devil21; 09-23-2021 at 12:02 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



Similar Threads

  1. Lehman E-Mails
    By Marenco in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-10-2012, 08:06 PM
  2. Is BoA the next Lehman Bros?
    By Romulus in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-09-2011, 01:45 PM
  3. Lehman headed down; how many will it take with?
    By jonahtrainer in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-16-2008, 06:56 PM
  4. Lehman Brothers
    By eric_cartman in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-15-2008, 01:42 AM
  5. what's going on with lehman bros?
    By BarryDonegan in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-14-2008, 01:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •