Why I Am Open Borders

[PAF]

I am Open-Borders for the following reasons:

- I support the natural right to travel freely across public land. I do not condone or support trespassing on privately owned property, residential or business.

- I support Natural Rights, which are outlined in the Bill of Rights. I believe that if a person is suspected of a crime, he/she should meet their accuser and given a speedy trial. I do not support lumping groups of people into a category because of the actions of one single person.

- I support work ethic, even for those wanting to escape other countries, so that like-minded people can realize life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which has dwindled down to almost nothing. I support people working for food and home, otherwise, go someplace else to seek it, but NOT on my tax dime.

- I do not support government Eminent Domain. Life is difficult enough raising a family, home upkeep and repairs, etc., without worrying about whether government and/or special interest will remove me from land that I have homesteaded for generations. I do not support government and/or special interest picking business winners and losers, using Eminent Domain as an excuse "for the betterment of all" - that is communism/fascism at its finest.

- I do not support "funneling" people into "entry points", so that they can be processed into a "database", to obtain government “documents”, which provides access to "government programs".

- I do not support giving MY tax dollars to infringe on people and private property. Read my sig.

- I do not support "papers please" to differentiate "them from me", and I certainly do not support my luggage, trunk or pockets being "rummaged through" just because I want or need to travel someplace. Time and again, I have had personal effects "lost" or damaged, which takes my valuable time to file incident reports and to recover damages. It is also an additional drain on the tax-payer, STUPID.

- I support the Beacon of Liberty, and legitimately want to be and set the example for other countries to follow. I am not interested in China/Berlin walls on my-tax-dime - the whole world is closing in on a One-World Government, polluted with the SAME pathetic policies, regulations and restrictions. It is long past time that we wise up, and STOP trying to "emulate other countries". This is America, FFS, not Amerika with a k. Stop listening to Fascist-Shills and Lib-tards - they work together and share drinks behind closed doors.


If you were SERIOUS about defending my Natural Rights and Fiscal Responsibility, and the preservation of liberty and freedom, you would STOP demanding human beings to be "processed" into your system which enables access to said government programs, and STOP taxing me and others to pick up the tab for unnecessary 3-Letter Agencies, special-interest holding cells and processing centers.

If you were SERIOUS about the government-induced immigration "problem", you would leave the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments alone, and allow private property owners to handle and protect their own land by whatever means he/she deems necessary; ie: leave my property, my business and my guns alone.

If you were SERIOUS about "controlling" immigration, you would stop "incentives", certainly when "republicans" have the presidency, house and senate.


In closing, I want you to know that I am APPALLED that you think that I am STUPID ENOUGH willing to sacrifice many of my freedoms and liberties, destroy my Natural Rights outlined in the Bill of Rights, and forfeit my private property, and that you actually believe that your Police-State Tactic solutions are better "solutions" and will resolve the "problem".

Never let a good a good crisis go to waste. YOU are using "immigration", NSA, TSA, gun legislation, "Covid", special-interest both domestic and foreign, as an excuse to destroy the Bill the Rights you swore to uphold and protect. You claim "immigrants are soaking my tax dollars so we must abandon each-and-every-one-of-my Bill of Rights" is a legitimate trade-off, and I'm not buying it.


Signed,

Stop treading your Left-jack boot (social welfare) and your Right-jack boot (special interest welfare) on my throat and leave me, my home, my business, and my money the f&ck alone.

[Invisible Man]

This may be a subpoint of points you already raised, but here's another reason:

- I support the right of Americans to return to their own homes after leaving the country without being required to show papers proving they live here.

Here's a quote from Ron Paul in Liberty Defined:

Another concern I have with the immigration issue is that the strong border protection proponents are as interested in regulating our right to freely exit the country as they are in preventing illegal entry. No longer can we travel even to Canada or Mexico without a U.S. passport. Our government keeps tabs on our every move, which involves a lot more than looking for drug dealers, illegal immigrants, or stopping a potential terrorist.... A tight border policy to keep certain people out is one thing, but tight border control to limit our ability to leave when we please is something else.... The REAL ID, supported by those demanding stricter control of our borders, was rejected by many because it was eventually seen as a step toward a national ID card.

The implications of this are obvious. If Americans are permitted cross the borders to return into the USA without showing proof that they belong here, then there's no practical way of requiring foreigners to show passports either, since there's no way of knowing they're not Americans.

[Anti Federalist]

Why I am in favor of Closed Borders.

A - There are 8 billion people in the world.

B - They can not all come here.

C - Even if a small percentage of that 8 billion comes here, it will significantly change and alter what the nation is.

[TheTexan]

Why I am in favor of closed borders:*

#1 the people we are importing are more tyrannical than the average american.

#2 There are still embers of the fire of freedom that once was, but those embers are fading. To rebuild the fire it has to carefully tended... currently it's being trampled by those with no appreciation for freedom. Soon will be gone entirely.

#3 open borders in the current political climate is equivalent to the abandonment and quick erasure of culture. I like culture, I like other cultures, and currently borders are needed to preserve those cultures.

(*I am not in favor of collecting taxes for any of these purposes. Theoretically we could still have closed borders in a free society- that's what I want)

[TheTexan]

I think PAF you're conflating closed borders with statism.

It's entirely possible to be a closed border advocate without being a statist.

E.g. gated communities

[CaptUSA]

Why I am in favor of Closed Borders.

A - There are 8 billion people in the world.

B - They can not all come here.

C - Even if a small percentage of that 8 billion comes here, it will significantly change and alter what the nation is.

We seem to be handling that just fine on our own, right?


I guess I kinda take a middle ground here. I don't have an issue with sovereign borders. I also don't want a police state to maintain those borders. If the incentives were left to natural market forces, I think the types of immigrants that would be attracted to this country would do us a lot of good. Unfortunately, those incentives have been perverted by the very organization that stands to benefit from the result - namely the Federal Gubmint.

I'd much rather focus on the root of the problem instead of the predictable offshoots. End the drug war. End the welfare state. End foreign aid. Then watch the adverse effects of immigration vanish. Sadly, if we're not willing to end those things, open immigration is an eventual death sentence to any State.

[Invisible Man]

I think PAF you're conflating closed borders with statism.

It's entirely possible to be a closed border advocate without being a statist.

E.g. gated communities

I agree with this. But I think the size difference between a gated community and the USA makes those two things qualitatively different.

My right to exclude people from my house and yard can extend outward to include neighbors in properties that are contiguous with mine who are in agreement with me on the matter. But I cannot extend out farther than however that contiguous chain of neighbors does. Contrary to what many immigration restrictionists say, Joe Biden's right to exclude people he doesn't want from the entire USA is not an extension of your and my personal rights to do that with our personal property.

[TheTexan]

We seem to be handling that just fine on our own, right?


I guess I kinda take a middle ground here. I don't have an issue with sovereign borders. I also don't want a police state to maintain those borders. If the incentives were left to natural market forces, I think the types of immigrants that would be attracted to this country would do us a lot of good. Unfortunately, those incentives have been perverted by the very organization that stands to benefit from the result - namely the Federal Gubmint.

I'd much rather focus on the root of the problem instead of the predictable offshoots. End the drug war. End the welfare state. End foreign aid. Then watch the adverse effects of immigration vanish. Sadly, if we're not willing to end those things, open immigration is an eventual death sentence to any State.

Keep in mind that immigration has been going on for long enough time that it may indeed be the "root problem"

[TheTexan]

I agree with this. But I think the size difference between a gated community and the USA makes those two things qualitatively different.

My right to exclude people from my house and yard can extend outward to include neighbors in properties that are contiguous with mine who are in agreement with me on the matter. But I cannot extend out farther than however that contiguous chain of neighbors does. Contrary to what many immigration restrictionists say, Joe Biden's right to exclude people he doesn't want from the entire USA is not an extension of your and my personal rights to do that with our personal property.

The way I see it is, the USA has currently a democratized ownership model where everyone owns everyone's land. I think it's dumb but 90% or more of the people in this country think it's great.

We don't really have a right to say, hey 90% your way is dumb We have to do it this better way.

No, but we do have a right to say, we as the 10% are taking our ball and going home. You 90% have an obligation to let us leave in peace.

The point is, the USA as it exists today could exist in a free society. The only thing that is broken is the zero tolerance for secession

[CaptUSA]

Keep in mind that immigration has been going on for long enough time that it may indeed be the "root problem"

Nah, I lay that at the feet of academia.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach (you to despise those who do).

[Brian4Liberty]

...
- I support work ethic, even for those wanting to escape other countries, so that like-minded people can realize life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which has dwindled down to almost nothing. I support people working for food and home, otherwise, go someplace else to seek it, but NOT on my tax dime.
...

But it is absolutely on your tax dime. And more of your dimes every day. And those masses of MIC and economic refugees are used as justification for even more of your dimes. Democrats right now are trying to implement a new wealth tax, to pay for their “socialism”, which is in reality crony kleptocracy.

[Brian4Liberty]

I am in favor of open borders. I am also in favor of limiting immigration.

[PAF]

“End the Fed”, most if not all problems go away.

Otherwise, “Support the Fed”, their “solutions”, and enjoy the Shackles.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tralized-Power


In other words, @TheTexan @Anti Federalist , you cannot End the Fed and defeat communism/fascism by supporting the Fed using communist/fascist tactics.

[TheTexan]

“End the Fed”, most if not all problems go away.

Otherwise, “Support the Fed”, their “solutions”, and enjoy the Shackles.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tralized-Power


In other words, @TheTexan @Anti Federalist , you cannot End the Fed and defeat communism/fascism by supporting the Fed using communist/fascist tactics.

Likewise sir

[nobody's_hero]

Why I am in favor of Closed Borders.

A - There are 8 billion people in the world.

B - They can not all come here.

C - Even if a small percentage of that 8 billion comes here, it will significantly change and alter what the nation is.

"They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. Their principles with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us in the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass." -T.J.

[PAF]

Why I am in favor of Closed Borders.

A - There are 8 billion people in the world.

B - They can not all come here.

C - Even if a small percentage of that 8 billion comes here, it will significantly change and alter what the nation is.

@nobody's_hero


What exactly is this nation?



FedDeptEd

Bill of Rights abandoned.

MIC/MIC

Prison Industrial Complex

FED giving battlefield military gear to local LEO

Section 702 extended another 6 years

TARPing special-interest globalist corporations.

2,000+ page bills passed without veto consideration.

Omnibus, “Emergency” Spending Bill, PREP Act

Rockefeller Foundation, Bill and Melinda Fates Foundation, etc.

Lobbyists flooding the halls of the WH

Win back the House but throw Massie out of the Republican Party

IMF, World Bank, etc.

Corporation memberships to Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum


Yeah, better watch those immigrants, invading my closet, under the bed, surrounding and lobbying the White House staff.


The problem isn’t immigrants. It’s the lobbyists and the White House pushing legislation to transfer our wealth. They design the system so that special-interest profits, and the politicians receive kick-back.

Sorry but NO. The gubermint will take my money regardless, I am NOT going to let them abuse my Natural Rights or take my property from me. If you can’t see past the smoke screen, then YOU forfeit YOUR rights and private property, instead of pressuring them to STOP transferring our wealth.

[nobody's_hero]

@nobody's_hero


What exactly is this nation?



FedDeptEd

Bill of Rights abandoned.

MIC/MIC

Prison Industrial Complex

FED giving battlefield military gear to local LEO

Section 702 extended another 6 years

TARPing special-interest globalist corporations.

2,000+ page bills passed without veto consideration.

Omnibus, “Emergency” Spending Bill, PREP Act

Rockefeller Foundation, Bill and Melinda Fates Foundation, etc.

Lobbyists flooding the halls of the WH

Win back the House but throw Massie out of the Republican Party

IMF, World Bank, etc.

Corporation memberships to Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum


Yeah, better watch those immigrants, invading my closet, under the bed, surrounding and lobbying the White House staff.


The problem isn’t immigrants. It’s the lobbyists and the White House pushing legislation to transfer our wealth. They design the system so that special-interest profits, and the politicians receive kick-back.

Sorry but NO. The gubermint will take my money regardless, I am NOT going to let them abuse my Natural Rights or take my property from me. If you can’t see past the smoke screen, then YOU forfeit YOUR rights and private property, instead of pressuring them to STOP transferring our wealth.

The best plumber in the world still has to cut the water off before fixing the pipe.

[Invisible Man]

The best plumber in the world still has to cut the water off before fixing the pipe.

We need to have the feds take away more of our freedom so that the feds can give us our freedom.

[donnay]

Without a moral compass, and humbling this country and the world will lose. This is no longer about America, but Americans are last bastion of Liberty. The only way we keep our Liberty is to pray that God continues to bless us and guide us through this Godlessness.

Isaiah 54:17

17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

[nobody's_hero]

We need to have the feds take away more of our freedom so that the feds can give us our freedom.

It does sound terrible when you put it that way.

But in all the years I've been debating open borders here on RPF, I've never once come across anyone who has suggested a viable solution on how exactly you propose to preserve (or at this point, restore) liberty, if people whose ideals are completely foreign to it, are being imported at a faster rate than we can win them over.

I mean, yeah, it feels good after 5 years when you finally convince your own mom to go to a freedom convention with you. What are you going to do about the millions of others in the mean time?

It's like playing a football game and you guys are saying, "all we need to do is score a touch down, don't worry about the fact that the other team is waving spectators down onto the field to block it."

And as of late, the states are doing a better job of defending the border than the feds. I wonder why the feds aren't interested in stemming the flow of illegal immigration. It's almost like they know it gives them power or something.

[TheTexan]

I think your open borders idea has merit
.if your dumb

[PAF]

I think your open borders idea has merit
.if your dumb

"Love & Support The FED" forum is: thataway ----------------->

[tod evans]

Get the fed out of the border business and stop prosecuting property owners for shooting trespassers.

Problem solved.

[PAF]

Get the fed out of the border business and stop prosecuting property owners for shooting trespassers.

Problem solved.

You can be my wing man anytime

[Occam's Banana]

Get the fed out of the border business and stop prosecuting property owners for shooting trespassers.

Problem solved.

Solved problems? What good are those?

No politician ever got (re)elected (and no government program ever got funded) with the slogan "this problem has been solved."

[PAF]

Solved problems? What good are those?

No politician ever got (re)elected (and no government program ever got funded) with the slogan "this problem has been solved."

So your solution is: they're going to take your tax money anyway, so you may as well give up Bill of Rights and Private Property to boot?

[Occam's Banana]

So your solution is: they're going to take your tax money anyway, so you may as well give up Bill of Rights and Private Property to boot?

How'd you guess?

[Political]

If we have open borders, then why fight wars or why have an army? We are all on the same "side" because there is no sides, its open borders.

[RJB]

Forget open borders. Name a civilization that survived weak borders. Our nation may not be perfect, but I would rather live nowhere else. I would rather not see it turned into Venezuela.

[Anti Federalist]

Article IV - Section 4:

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion