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Thread: Montana becomes the first U.S. state to ban vaccine requirements for employees

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So....did she stay closed up until vaccines were readily available?
    "Do you still beat your wife?"

    What makes you think she was ever "closed up", let alone that she "stay[ed that way] until vaccines were readily available"?

    And if she was, what makes you think it wasn't because of government mandates forcing her to close her business?

    She is obviously serving unvaccinated people, otherwise she wouldn't have a reason to offer vaccinated-only classes.

    Why should she be punished for giving some of her clientele what they want?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    If not I have no sympathy for her position. I have little sympathy either way.
    Then why bother even asking the question?

    In any case, no one's liberty should ever be contingent upon anyone else's "sympathy".



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  3. #212
    //
    Last edited by jmdrake; 11-07-2021 at 08:26 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Good to know you have as much dismissive contempt for the consequences of government policy on peoples' livelihoods as any left-liberal does.



    There was a good choice, but it wasn't made.

    DeSantis is not going to save you.
    The other choice was to let the globalists and liberals turn the frankenshots into the Mark of the Beast and cut anyone who didn't take them off from food and all other necessities using federal/corporate fascism.

    I will not weep a single tear that some lefty yoga instructor can't teach yoga to her insane leftist customers who want to force needles into everyone else's arms.

    In normal times it would be best to let them do as they please but not now while it is all part of the Great Reset intended to destroy liberty and enslave us all.

    I have just as much dismissive contempt for libertarians who swallow camels in order to strain at gnats as I do for her and her lefty friends who would see me starved to death for refusing the death shots.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The other choice was to let the globalists and liberals turn the frankenshots into the Mark of the Beast and cut anyone who didn't take them off from food and all other necessities using federal/corporate fascism.

    I will not weep a single tear that some lefty yoga instructor can't teach yoga to her insane leftist customers who want to force needles into everyone else's arms.

    In normal times it would be best to let them do as they please but not now while it is all part of the Great Reset intended to destroy liberty and enslave us all.

    I have just as much dismissive contempt for libertarians who swallow camels in order to strain at gnats as I do for her and her lefty friends who would see me starved to death for refusing the death shots.
    I see you're still reading everything through that weird filter of yours.

    She teaches yoga full time, yet set up exactly two classes a week for vaxanoiacs. Two per week.

    I think that proves she's not a vaxanoiac herself.

    What makes you assume she is? The fact that she teaches yoga? Her gender? The fact that, like any conservative in business, she's trying to cater to her customers?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-07-2021 at 08:53 PM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The same thing might be said of the unvaccinated -- as they continue to take up all the ICU beds such that people with other illnesses can't get proper care, they may find that the loved ones of those others in need might just sneak in and disconnect a few ventilators.
    I was infected with CCP19 from a fully vaxxed walking petri dish that spread their filth to me.

    Maybe I ought to go and start unplugging $#@!.


    See, this is why this will end in bloodshed, because of $#@!s like this.
    "Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I see you're still reading everything through that weird filter of yours.

    She teaches yoga full time, yet set up exactly two classes a week for vaxanoiacs. Two per week.

    I think that proves she's not a vaxanoiac herself.

    What makes you assume she is? The fact that she teaches yoga? Her gender? The fact that, like any conservative in business, she's trying to cater to her customers?
    We know she is not as crazy as the customers she was catering to but her gender, the fact that she must have taken the frankenshot or her crazy customers would not come to her, and the yoga makes it almost certain she is a leftist.
    And I don't care if she is a Ron Paul Republican or a Q following Trump fan, she can sell her services to her sane customers and just give up the crazies rather than let the left impose the Mark of the Beast system.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The other choice was to let the globalists and liberals turn the frankenshots into the Mark of the Beast and cut anyone who didn't take them off from food and all other necessities using federal/corporate fascism.

    I will not weep a single tear that some lefty yoga instructor can't teach yoga to her insane leftist customers who want to force needles into everyone else's arms.

    In normal times it would be best to let them do as they please but not now while it is all part of the Great Reset intended to destroy liberty and enslave us all.

    I have just as much dismissive contempt for libertarians who swallow camels in order to strain at gnats as I do for her and her lefty friends who would see me starved to death for refusing the death shots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We know she is not as crazy as the customers she was catering to but her gender, the fact that she must have taken the frankenshot or her crazy customers would not come to her, and the yoga makes it almost certain she is a leftist.
    And I don't care if she is a Ron Paul Republican or a Q following Trump fan, she can sell her services to her sane customers and just give up the crazies rather than let the left impose the Mark of the Beast system.
    In other words, you offer a Hobson's Choice between:
    (1) despotic globalist authoritarianism that would love nothing more than to crush and destroy human liberty, versus
    (2) despotic anti-globalist authoritarianism that declares (with "dismissive contempt") that it simply doesn't give a damn if human liberty (or even its own supporters/allies) ends up being crushed and destroyed in the course of its fight against (1).

    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

    (And wait! Let me guess: after the glorious victory of despotic anti-globalist authoritarianism, "normal times" will magnanimously be restored and the exercise of human liberty will be permitted once again. Amirite?)

    HARD PASS
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 11-09-2021 at 01:33 AM.

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    In other words, you offer a Hobson's Choice between:
    (1) despotic globalist authoritarianism that would love nothing more than to crush and destroy human liberty, versus
    (2) despotic anti-globalist authoritarianism that declares (with "dismissive contempt") that it simply doesn't give a damn if human liberty (or even its own supporters/allies) ends up being crushed and destroyed in the course of its fight against (1).

    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

    (And wait! Let me guess: after the glorious victory of despotic anti-globalist authoritarianism, "normal times" will magnanimously be restored and the exercise of human liberty will be permitted once again. Amirite?)

    HARD PASS

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    In other words, you offer a Hobson's Choice between:
    (1) despotic globalist authoritarianism that would love nothing more than to crush and destroy human liberty, versus
    (2) despotic anti-globalist authoritarianism that declares (with "dismissive contempt") that it simply doesn't give a damn if human liberty (or even its own supporters/allies) ends up being crushed and destroyed in the course of its fight against (1).
    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

    (And wait! Let me guess: after the glorious victory of despotic anti-globalist authoritarianism, "normal times" will magnanimously be restored and the exercise of human liberty will be permitted once again. Amirite?)

    HARD PASS
    Bunk.

    We can preserve as much liberty as possible and continue to work at restoring it or we can surrender to the enemy in the name of theory.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #220
    I wonder if Trump is to be deemed worthy of the same "dismissive contempt" as small-business yoga instructors.

    Wait a minute! What am I saying? Of course I don't wonder.

    I don't wonder at all ...

    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/sta...98727719739394


    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...90894966124548

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I wonder if Trump is to be deemed worthy of the same "dismissive contempt" as small-business yoga instructors.

    Wait a minute! What am I saying? Of course I don't wonder.

    I don't wonder at all ...

    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/sta...98727719739394


    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...90894966124548
    Let me know when he tries to make someone take it.
    Trump lost points with me big time over this but he ALWAYS says you should have a right not to take it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Let me know when he tries to make someone take it.
    Trump lost points with me big time over this but he ALWAYS says you should have a right not to take it.
    The problem with Trump is you think you know him until you realize you don't. He is your friend until he is your enemy. He is not in any position to "make" anyone take a vaccine. Trump probably doesn't even know what he would do about mandating vaccines until he did it.

  15. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    The problem with Trump is you think you know him until you realize you don't. He is your friend until he is your enemy. He is not in any position to "make" anyone take a vaccine. Trump probably doesn't even know what he would do about mandating vaccines until he did it.
    Well I know what this woman did to contribute to dividing society and imposing the Mark of the Beast system and I have not seen Trump do anything like it.

    But to make it very clear to @Occam's Banana I would not shed a tear if one of Trump's companies violated the Florida law by discriminating against the vax free and was shut down for it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Well I know what this woman did to contribute to dividing society and imposing the Mark of the Beast system and I have not seen Trump do anything like it.

    But to make it very clear to @Occam's Banana I would not shed a tear if one of Trump's companies violated the Florida law by discriminating against the vax free and was shut down for it.

    How many more signed bills and Trillions of tax payer dollars until you believe he did "anything like it"?



    - Jan 20, 2021 Trump Revokes Lobbying Ban He Signed At The Beginning Of His Presidency

    - As president, Trump: “Just signed 702 Bill to reauthorize foreign intelligence collection,” Trump wrote on Twitter, referring to legislation passed by the U.S. Congress that extends Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The law renews for six years and with minimal changes the National Security Agency (NSA) program.

    - March 27, 2020 President Donald Trump suggested that a Republican congressman be unseated for potentially jeopardizing the passage of the $2 trillion stimulus package, which will provide Americans economic relief amid the coronavirus pandemic. In an attack against a member of his own party, Trump called Rep. Thomas Massie a "third rate Grandstander" and claimed the Kentucky Republican "just wants the publicity" after threatening a roll-call vote, which would require members travel back to the US Capitol to vote in person. He added, "WIN BACK HOUSE, but throw Massie out of Republican Party!"

    - When Trump was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2017, the total national debt was nearly $20 trillion, according to the Treasury Department. It has increased over roughly 30% since, nearly $8 trillion, to $27 trillion, as of Monday. For comparison, President Barack Obama added roughly $9 trillion to the national debt during his eight years in office, according to the Treasury Department.

    - On December 27, 2020 Donald Trump signed the "Stimulus" Bill providing a few hundred dollars to the people and Billions to Bill Gates' GAVI Alliance and Globalist initiatives.

    - In February, the Trump administration had promised to commit $1.16 billion to Gavi over fiscal years 2020-2023. Over the years, the U.S. has contributed 13.7% of the group’s operating budget — $1.4 billion between 2016 and 2020.

    - Bill Gates Led Effort To Get $3.36 Billion Into The Coronavirus Deal

    - Operation Warp Speed (OWS) is a Public–Private partnership, initiated by Donald Trump to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines. On March 27 nearly $10 Billion for Operation Warp Speed through the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act.

    - Moncef Slaoui was interviewed and named in May 2020 by the Trump Administration as Operation Warp Speed chief adviser. Slaoui, Moderna Board Member, was formerly Chairman of Global Research and Development and Chairman of Global Vaccines at GlaxoSmithKline. The project has military officers involved in management of the key focus areas of development, manufacturing, and distribution. Slaoui was formerly partnered with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    - Awarded Moderna $1 Billion and $1.6 Billion to Novavax. BARDA participates in the Department of Defense (DoD) and the United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS).


    - Trump, Pelosi Attempting A "Replacement Government" Coup? (Starts at 21 minutes 10 seconds)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    How many more signed bills and Trillions of tax payer dollars until you believe he did "anything like it"?



    - Jan 20, 2021 Trump Revokes Lobbying Ban He Signed At The Beginning Of His Presidency

    - As president, Trump: “Just signed 702 Bill to reauthorize foreign intelligence collection,” Trump wrote on Twitter, referring to legislation passed by the U.S. Congress that extends Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The law renews for six years and with minimal changes the National Security Agency (NSA) program.

    - March 27, 2020 President Donald Trump suggested that a Republican congressman be unseated for potentially jeopardizing the passage of the $2 trillion stimulus package, which will provide Americans economic relief amid the coronavirus pandemic. In an attack against a member of his own party, Trump called Rep. Thomas Massie a "third rate Grandstander" and claimed the Kentucky Republican "just wants the publicity" after threatening a roll-call vote, which would require members travel back to the US Capitol to vote in person. He added, "WIN BACK HOUSE, but throw Massie out of Republican Party!"

    - When Trump was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2017, the total national debt was nearly $20 trillion, according to the Treasury Department. It has increased over roughly 30% since, nearly $8 trillion, to $27 trillion, as of Monday. For comparison, President Barack Obama added roughly $9 trillion to the national debt during his eight years in office, according to the Treasury Department.

    - On December 27, 2020 Donald Trump signed the "Stimulus" Bill providing a few hundred dollars to the people and Billions to Bill Gates' GAVI Alliance and Globalist initiatives.

    - In February, the Trump administration had promised to commit $1.16 billion to Gavi over fiscal years 2020-2023. Over the years, the U.S. has contributed 13.7% of the group’s operating budget — $1.4 billion between 2016 and 2020.

    - Bill Gates Led Effort To Get $3.36 Billion Into The Coronavirus Deal

    - Operation Warp Speed (OWS) is a Public–Private partnership, initiated by Donald Trump to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines. On March 27 nearly $10 Billion for Operation Warp Speed through the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act.

    - Moncef Slaoui was interviewed and named in May 2020 by the Trump Administration as Operation Warp Speed chief adviser. Slaoui, Moderna Board Member, was formerly Chairman of Global Research and Development and Chairman of Global Vaccines at GlaxoSmithKline. The project has military officers involved in management of the key focus areas of development, manufacturing, and distribution. Slaoui was formerly partnered with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    - Awarded Moderna $1 Billion and $1.6 Billion to Novavax. BARDA participates in the Department of Defense (DoD) and the United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS).


    - Trump, Pelosi Attempting A "Replacement Government" Coup? (Starts at 21 minutes 10 seconds)
    None of that is anything like it.

    But I should know better than to think you would think with anything but your wallet.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #226
    So what happens to an employee in Montana that works for a national company with over 100 employees where the Federal Government mandated employees to be vaccinated? What happens to that Montana employee that always travels to other states and is based out of Montana? Companies don't care. They just do not want problems with the government via fines, documentation, regulation... It is much easier for a company to just have one policy. Does this mean that Amazon or some national company will end up taking Montana to court and ultimately to the SCOTUS?

  20. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Let me know when he tries to make someone take it.
    Trump lost points with me big time over this but he ALWAYS says you should have a right not to take it.
    Random, powerless nobodies who want to offer yoga classes to those seeking a "vaxxed only" option is not the equivalent of "tries to make someone take it".

    You don't get to have it both ways. If not supporting mandatory vaccination is an adequate defense for Trump's full-throated endorsement of the "frankenshots", then it is also an adequate defense for any "Ron Paul Republican or a Q following Trump fan" (as you put it in a previous post) who opposes mandatory vaccinations but is willing to offer "vaxxed only" options in their private business dealings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Well I know what this woman did to contribute to dividing society and imposing the Mark of the Beast system and I have not seen Trump do anything like it.
    This woman - a random nobody who has (and had) no power at all, and never will - did nothing to "contribute to dividing society". She didn't do anything but say that she wishes to offer "vaxxed only" yoga classes to those who want such an option. (IOW: She wants to exercise her right to free association and to run her business as she sees fit.) For this, you agreed that she should be treated with "dismissive contempt" and that her rights and liberties should be denied in the name of fighting the implementation of what you call the "Mark of the Beast system".

    But at the same time, Trump - who is not a random nobody, who once did have power, and who might yet have power once again - certainly and absolutely is, by his active endorsement and promotion of the "frankenshots", contributing significantly to the implementation of that very same "Mark of the Beast system" (the need for opposition to which you think justifies some degree of liberty-abating authoritarianism). That Trump does not also endorse making the "frankenshots" mandatory does not change this. Any "contribution" you imagine Rando Nobody Yoga Woman might have made in this regard pales to utter insignificance when compared to Trump's.

    Yet, despite his obviously much greater contribution to the implementation of the "Mark of the Beast system", instead of denouncing him with the "dismissive contempt" of which he must surely be much more deserving than that woman (given the vast disparity between the influence each possesses and wields), you demur and say that he merely "lost points with [you] big time". What does that even mean? How many more "points" does he have to lose with you before he no longer "makes the score" and gets the same kind of sneering denouncements and "dismissive contempt" that Rando Nobody Yoga Woman gets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But to make it very clear to @Occam's Banana I would not shed a tear if one of Trump's companies violated the Florida law by discriminating against the vax free and was shut down for it.
    So you are consistent in endorsing the application of liberty-abating authoritarianism to everyone.

    I do not regard this as a strengthening of your position.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 12-24-2021 at 01:20 AM.

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Random, powerless nobodies who want to offer yoga classes to those seeking a "vaxxed only" option is not the equivalent of "tries to make someone take it".

    You don't get to have it both ways. If not supporting mandatory vaccination is an adequate defense for Trump's full-throated endorsement of the "frankenshots", then it is also an adequate defense for any "Ron Paul Republican or a Q following Trump fan" (as you put it in a previous post) who opposes mandatory vaccinations but is willing to offer "vaxxed only" options in their private business dealings.



    This woman - a random nobody who has (and had) no power at all, and never will - did nothing to "contribute to dividing society". She didn't do anything but say that she wishes to offer "vaxxed only" yoga classes to those who want such an option. (IOW: She wants to exercise her right to free association and to run her business as she sees fit.) For this, you agreed that she should be treated with "dismissive contempt" and that her rights and liberties should be denied in the name of fighting the implementation of what you call the "Mark of the Beast system".

    But at the same time, Trump - who is not a random nobody, who once did have power, and who might yet have power once again - certainly and absolutely is, by his active endorsement and promotion of the "frankenshots", contributing significantly to the implementation of that very same "Mark of the Beast system" (the need for opposition to which you think justifies some degree of liberty-abating authoritarianism). That Trump does not also endorse making the "frankenshots" mandatory does not change this. Any "contribution" you imagine Rando Nobody Yoga Woman might have made in this regard pales to utter insignificance when compared to Trump's.

    Yet, despite his obviously much greater contribution to the implementation of the "Mark of the Beast system", instead of denouncing him with the "dismissive contempt" of which he must surely be much more deserving than that woman (given the vast disparity between the influence each possesses and wields), you demur and say that he merely "lost points with [you] big time". What does that even mean? How many more "points" does he have to lose with you before he no longer "makes the score" and gets the same kind of sneering denouncements and "dismissive contempt" that Rando Nobody Yoga Woman gets?



    So you are consistent in endorsing the application of liberty-abating authoritarianism to everyone.

    I do not regard this as a strengthening of your position.
    One thing to keep in mind, is that a seemingly despotic position, can still be consistent with liberty, to the degree that the said despot, holds paramount the right to secede
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Trump Jr 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Random, powerless nobodies who want to offer yoga classes to those seeking a "vaxxed only" option is not the equivalent of "tries to make someone take it".
    Yes it is.
    We have a massive movement going on to make people take the shots or be ostracized and she is participating in it.
    Your argument is like saying the NAZI sentry walking guard in an occupied town is not doing anything wrong because he isn't on the front shooting at you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You don't get to have it both ways. If not supporting mandatory vaccination is an adequate defense for Trump's full-throated endorsement of the "frankenshots", then it is also an adequate defense for any "Ron Paul Republican or a Q following Trump fan" (as you put it in a previous post) who opposes mandatory vaccinations but is willing to offer "vaxxed only" options in their private business dealings.
    No it isn't.
    Trump saying people should take them is not good but other than giving his opinion it does not contribute in any way to coercing people to take them by dividing society between the vaxxed and the vaxx free.


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    This woman - a random nobody who has (and had) no power at all, and never will - did nothing to "contribute to dividing society". She didn't do anything but say that she wishes to offer "vaxxed only" yoga classes to those who want such an option. (IOW: She wants to exercise her right to free association and to run her business as she sees fit.) For this, you agreed that she should be treated with "dismissive contempt" and that her rights and liberties should be denied in the name of fighting the implementation of what you call the "Mark of the Beast system".
    That's literally dividing her customers and participating in the movement to divide society.
    It is a salami slicing process, first there are vaxxed only days and then later there are no unvaxxed days.
    The major powers MUST be prevented from implementing the Mark of the Beast system and if some of their minor useful idiots take damage that's just life.
    You don't freak out about civilians losing their houses when shelling those that are being used by enemy troops while driveing the NAZIs out of France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    But at the same time, Trump - who is not a random nobody, who once did have power, and who might yet have power once again - certainly and absolutely is, by his active endorsement and promotion of the "frankenshots", contributing significantly to the implementation of that very same "Mark of the Beast system" (the need for opposition to which you think justifies some degree of liberty-abating authoritarianism). That Trump does not also endorse making the "frankenshots" mandatory does not change this. Any "contribution" you imagine Rando Nobody Yoga Woman might have made in this regard pales to utter insignificance when compared to Trump's.
    It's not the same at all.
    If I advocated for pacifism that would be nothing like advocating for gun control or putting up a no guns allowed sign on my business.
    Trump also repeatedly has said that there should be no mandates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Yet, despite his obviously much greater contribution to the implementation of the "Mark of the Beast system", instead of denouncing him with the "dismissive contempt" of which he must surely be much more deserving than that woman (given the vast disparity between the influence each possesses and wields), you demur and say that he merely "lost points with [you] big time". What does that even mean? How many more "points" does he have to lose with you before he no longer "makes the score" and gets the same kind of sneering denouncements and "dismissive contempt" that Rando Nobody Yoga Woman gets?
    He will get the same sneering dismissive contempt if and when he tells one of his businesses to voluntarily discriminate against the unvaxxed, especially if it is in Florida where that is explicitly outlawed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So you are consistent in endorsing the application of liberty-abating authoritarianism to everyone.

    I do not regard this as a strengthening of your position.
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Your position is to stand back and watch the Mark of the Beast system be implemented and wash your hands like Pilate and the Crucifixion of Christ.
    Liberty will die but you will claim it wasn't your fault.
    Meanwhile you throw stones at the people trying to stand in the way of those who are trying to destroy freedom.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 12-24-2021 at 02:08 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    One thing to keep in mind, is that a seemingly despotic position, can still be consistent with liberty, to the degree that the said despot, holds paramount the right to secede
    Sure, I can go along with that, I guess. At least in theory.

    But another thing to keep in mind is that, in actual practice, despots who have claimed that they hold paramount the right to secede have turned out to be bald-faced liars.

    Exhibit A:

    "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement."
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 12-24-2021 at 02:53 AM.

  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes it is.
    We have a massive movement going on to make people take the shots or be ostracized and she is participating in it.
    Your argument is like saying the NAZI sentry walking guard in an occupied town is not doing anything wrong because he isn't on the front shooting at you.


    No it isn't.
    Trump saying people should take them is not good but other than giving his opinion it does not contribute in any way to coercing people to take them by dividing society between the vaxxed and the vaxx free.



    That's literally dividing her customers and participating in the movement to divide society.
    It is a salami slicing process, first there are vaxxed only days and then later there are no unvaxxed days.
    The major powers MUST be prevented from implementing the Mark of the Beast system and if some of their minor useful idiots take damage that's just life.
    You don't freak out about civilians losing their houses when shelling those that are being used by enemy troops while driveing the NAZIs out of France.


    It's not the same at all.
    If I advocated for pacifism that would be nothing like advocating for gun control or putting up a no guns allowed sign on my business.
    Trump also repeatedly has said that there should be no mandates.


    He will get the same sneering dismissive contempt if and when he tells one of his businesses to voluntarily discriminate against the unvaxxed, especially if it is in Florida where that is explicitly outlawed.



    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Your position is to stand back and watch the Mark of the Beast system be implemented and wash your hands like Pilate and the Crucifixion of Christ.
    Liberty will die but you will claim it wasn't your fault.
    Meanwhile you throw stones at the people trying to stand in the way of those who are trying to destroy freedom.

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post

    I know, right?

    The one that almost had me on the floor was "Liberty preserving authoritarianism"?!?

    You can't buy tickets to see $#@! this funny.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Random, powerless nobodies who want to offer yoga classes to those seeking a "vaxxed only" option is not the equivalent of "tries to make someone take it".

    You don't get to have it both ways. If not supporting mandatory vaccination is an adequate defense for Trump's full-throated endorsement of the "frankenshots", then it is also an adequate defense for any "Ron Paul Republican or a Q following Trump fan" (as you put it in a previous post) who opposes mandatory vaccinations but is willing to offer "vaxxed only" options in their private business dealings.



    This woman - a random nobody who has (and had) no power at all, and never will - did nothing to "contribute to dividing society". She didn't do anything but say that she wishes to offer "vaxxed only" yoga classes to those who want such an option. (IOW: She wants to exercise her right to free association and to run her business as she sees fit.) For this, you agreed that she should be treated with "dismissive contempt" and that her rights and liberties should be denied in the name of fighting the implementation of what you call the "Mark of the Beast system".

    But at the same time, Trump - who is not a random nobody, who once did have power, and who might yet have power once again - certainly and absolutely is, by his active endorsement and promotion of the "frankenshots", contributing significantly to the implementation of that very same "Mark of the Beast system" (the need for opposition to which you think justifies some degree of liberty-abating authoritarianism). That Trump does not also endorse making the "frankenshots" mandatory does not change this. Any "contribution" you imagine Rando Nobody Yoga Woman might have made in this regard pales to utter insignificance when compared to Trump's.

    Yet, despite his obviously much greater contribution to the implementation of the "Mark of the Beast system", instead of denouncing him with the "dismissive contempt" of which he must surely be much more deserving than that woman (given the vast disparity between the influence each possesses and wields), you demur and say that he merely "lost points with [you] big time". What does that even mean? How many more "points" does he have to lose with you before he no longer "makes the score" and gets the same kind of sneering denouncements and "dismissive contempt" that Rando Nobody Yoga Woman gets?



    So you are consistent in endorsing the application of liberty-abating authoritarianism to everyone.

    I do not regard this as a strengthening of your position.

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    The one that almost had me on the floor was "Liberty preserving authoritarianism"?!?
    There's a smorgasbord to choose from there, to be sure.

    But for me, the biggest howler comes down to that one or the analogizing of yoga instructors with Nazi sentries.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 12-24-2021 at 03:43 AM.

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes it is.
    We have a massive movement going on to make people take the shots or be ostracized and she is participating in it.
    Your argument is like saying the NAZI sentry walking guard in an occupied town is not doing anything wrong because he isn't on the front shooting at you.
    A small business owner responding to the requests of paying customers to self-segregate is doing more to spread the clot shot than the guy who printed trillions and wallpapered Big Pharma's pockets with it?

    Pretty good comedy material. Got more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No it isn't.
    Trump saying people should take them is not good but other than giving his opinion it does not contribute in any way to coercing people to take them by dividing society between the vaxxed and the vaxx free.
    And once again your infamous derangement coughs up comedy gold. No, the guy who printed trillions for mad scientists to create the monster--if this is a Frankenshot, then Trump is Dr. Frankenstein, just like he said he was--has less culpability than a podunk yoga instructor offered segregated and desegregated yoga classes to better compete in the marketplace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's literally dividing her customers and participating in the movement to divide society.
    It is a salami slicing process, first there are vaxxed only days and then later there are no unvaxxed days.
    The major powers MUST be prevented from implementing the Mark of the Beast system and if some of their minor useful idiots take damage that's just life.
    You don't freak out about civilians losing their houses when shelling those that are being used by enemy troops while driveing the NAZIs out of France.
    Powers must be stopped, so give the guy who financed the creation of the Mark a pass and persecute a small business owner guilty of nothing but ducking for cover from the crossfire.

    Hey! 3D Chess!

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not the same at all.
    If I advocated for pacifism that would be nothing like advocating for gun control or putting up a no guns allowed sign on my business.
    Trump also repeatedly has said that there should be no mandates.
    There's no "No Un"vaccinated" Allowed sign. There's just appointments. If this woman held classes for seniors for whatever reason, would you scream of ageism? Do you do the same level of screeching over special education classes? Do you figure they encourage stupidity, or will lead to the elimination of all other classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He will get the same sneering dismissive contempt if and when he tells one of his businesses to voluntarily discriminate against the unvaxxed, especially if it is in Florida where that is explicitly outlawed.
    So, Florida is not only outlawing employment discrimination, but is outlawing freedom of association? One or two classes out of several being offered are segregated, and Florida law intervenes, just as if her customers were employees?

    No. You're lying again. These things you say are not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Your position is to stand back and watch the Mark of the Beast system be implemented and wash your hands like Pilate and the Crucifixion of Christ.
    Liberty will die but you will claim it wasn't your fault.
    Meanwhile you throw stones at the people trying to stand in the way of those who are trying to destroy freedom.
    You have the liberty to try to help those animals like Trump preserve authoritarianism. And I have the liberty to call you a moron and tell you to go to hell.

    Why can't any of these idiots be useful to liberty?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-24-2021 at 06:52 AM.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    A small business owner responding to the requests of paying customers to self-segregate is doing more to spread the clot shot than the guy who printed trillions and wallpapered Big Pharma's pockets with it?

    Pretty good comedy material. Got more?
    Nice dodge.
    I didn't say she was doing more to spread THE SHOTS.
    She is doing more to spread the mandates and segregation that will result in none being able to buy or sell without them. (death by starvation as punishment)


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And once again your infamous derangement coughs up comedy gold. No, the guy who printed trillions for mad scientists to create the monster--if this is a Frankenshot, then Trump is Dr. Frankenstein, just like he said he was--has less culpability than a podunk yoga instructor offered segregated and desegregated yoga classes to better compete in the marketplace.
    See above.
    You can cover your eyes all you want but denying reality will not change it.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Powers must be stopped, so give the guy who financed the creation of the Mark a pass and persecute a small business owner guilty of nothing but ducking for cover from the crossfire.
    Trump is not getting a pass, if he does what she did I will support the same outcome.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    There's no "No Un"vaccinated" Allowed sign. There's just appointments. If this woman held classes for seniors for whatever reason, would you scream of ageism? Do you do the same level of screeching over special education classes? Do you figure they encourage stupidity, or will lead to the elimination of all other classes?
    Trying to take her actions out of the context of the cultural war over forced vaccination will not work.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So, Florida is not only outlawing employment discrimination, but is outlawing freedom of association? One or two classes out of several being offered are segregated, and Florida law intervenes, just as if her customers were employees?

    No. You're lying again. These things you say are not true.
    Florida law prohibits discrimination against customers over their vaccine status. Cry more.
    Florida knows a slippery slope is stopped at the beginning and not after it gains momentum.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You have the liberty to try to help those animals like Trump preserve authoritarianism. And I have the liberty to call you a moron and tell you to go to hell.

    Why can't any of these idiots be useful to liberty?
    Pretending giant corporations, useful idiot leftists, and Demoncrat government officials are not on the same side and that those opposing them are the ones decreasing liberty would be funny if it weren't so deadly serious.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I know, right?

    The one that almost had me on the floor was "Liberty preserving authoritarianism"?!?

    You can't buy tickets to see $#@! this funny.
    Police raid sex slavery ring arresting the pimps and freeing the women and children held by force.
    Is that anti-liberty?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Police raid sex slavery ring arresting the pimps and freeing the women and children held by force.
    Is that anti-liberty?
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    /ōˌTHäriˈterēənizəm/

    noun
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    /ōˌTHäriˈterēənizəm/

    noun
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
    Yes.
    It was improper to call Florida's law authoritarian in the first place.
    Take it up with OB, I just spoke in his chosen terms.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Magical
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.



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