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Fake news.Originally Posted by BortSimpson
See John 14:1-3
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
Oh, and she's pushing Article V convention.
No.
There are a lot of evil voices muddying the waters. And all these macho huffy-puffy "you need to get off your but and x, y, z" have no plan, but want to berate others for not only not having a plan but not being ANGRY enough.
How does being more angry make us more effective. It doesn't.
We cannot unite in anger. It's toxic and it's temporary.
There is no safety or wisdom outside the Lord.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
She is quite right, nobody is going to save us, but us.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
That's a good way into the mass grave.
Millions of righteous people over the last 2000 years fervently prayed for and waited for God's deliverance from their enemies, oppressors and executors.
And they were slaughtered.
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
I have no time left to muddle about with pacifist sects preaching submission and death.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
Well, I'm not sure what "God" you follow, but those who believe in The Resurrection don't talk that way.
I see the radicalization happening. Being "angry" is not a strategy. Men and women who can't control their emotions are not fit to lead.
I keep hearing this B.S. more and more... "I'm done with cowards, I'm done justifying myself, I'm done with talk, I'm done with politics, f-off if don't think like me."
Wounded dogs lashing out. Lick your wounds and calm down.
"pacifist sects"....pfft.
We will eat the flesh of kings, bruh. You do not know the power of God.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
</thread>
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
But her "solution" is the same one pushed by neocon Mark Levin. She's talking about an article V convention to end the empire. He wants one to extend it indefinitely. Which faction do you think is going to win in the A-5? She didn't explain what proposals she wanted in the A-5. Just "do it" and it will "magically fix everything.". And has she really been antiwar these past 20 years like the rest of us or is this just a convenient talking point at the moment?
We had a real chance to elect an outsider in 2016, Rand Paul, and people like her fell in line behind the snake oil salesman, Donald Trump, and instead of admitting THEY made a mistake they want to say " there's no other choice besides plan X.". It's like a woman that CONSISTENTLY dates the wrong men who then say 'All men are trash and all women shield be lesbians.'. Right now Rand Paul and Jim Jordan are the leaders in the fight against Fauci. That's the most important fight in a generation. What is snake oil salesman doing? Going into Cullman Alabama and getting booed for lecturing people about vaccines.
I no longer regularly listen to Alex Jones. But he's right about one thing. We are in an information war. And if we don't win THAT war nothing else will matter. Right now crypto currency is our best shot at true freedom. I'm not just talking about Bitcoin. Blockchain technology is behind independent networks like Bitchute, LIBRY and Hive that allow uncensored free speech. And right now the SEC is attacking it by trying to call it a "security" and the current infrastructure bill wants to add post 9/11 reporting requirements to it. But most people aren't even aware that's going on.
Side note. You might not fully grasp how important the thread you recently posted about the deaths of the fully vaccinated is. That was the final piece of the puzzle. The mRNA vaccines are crap against any variant that had a mutation to the spike protein. As Delta, and to a lessor extent Lambda, become the dominant variants, the weakness of the main vaccines being pushed is becoming more and more apparent. The falsehood that the were protecting against hospitalization and death was really based on the fact that there is still the original strain out there and that there is an obvious lag between infection, hospitalization and death. Also there are traditional vaccines like Johnson and Johnson which are better against variants and they are masking the failures of mRNA.
I know I went off topic on those last two paragraphs, but I guess my point is that she was engaging in the false choice fallacy. There are far more than two peaceful choices. And secession wouldn't be peaceful. We know that from history. The information war is peaceful. And anything that gets accomplished must be based on first winning the information war.
Well spoken! Jesus said " You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.".
The federal government didn't have to force people to go along with the war in Afghanistan. Conservatives like the woman ranting in the video willingly jumped behind it. It's because they didn't listen to the truth. Ron Paul tried to explain that we were only making the situation worse. Yes he voted for the authorization of military force but he only wanted limited force. He also proposed letters of marquee and reprisal, something I'm just now starting to understand. Ship captains who had such letters were basically legalized pirates. The modern day equivalent of a pirate is a hacker. Save our hackers were given the green light to go after the financial assets of the rich families in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan that fund radical Islam? A no boots on the ground way to have a greater effect on terrorism.
And ultimately the gospel is the greatest weapon against terrorism at home and abroad. No you won't convert everyone, but no truly converted person would purposely harm an innocent.
I'll be quite honest with you, I didn't listen far enough to hear what her solutions were.
Only far enough to hear that it rests with us to fix this.
I should probably not even comment on threads like this. My own faith, such that it was, is fractured, it is a contentious thorn that has ripped my family apart and driven the wife and I to the point of divorce.
I tend to respond in anger when I see people dismiss action because of faith. Maybe that wasn't what was happening here, just how I perceived it. But certainly there is a segment of the Christian community that believes this is all foretold, all part of God's plan and as such, we, as mere mortals, have no business interfering with it.
I reject that outlook, out of hand.
Either we are created in the image of God with free will and the ability to change or alter the outcome of events that effect us, individually and collectively, or we are not.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
Sinclair Lewis warned that when Fascism comes to America it will be "wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Cutting off your sentence right there, it works whether one believes in God, or notEither we are created in the image of God with free will and the ability to change or alter the outcome of events that effect us, individually and collectively
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
What I find most annoying about Christians looking forward to the Apocalypse is that that faith in the end of times overlooks the reality of history. The Christians persecution under Rome until Constantine legalized Christianity had it much worse than us and deserved deliverance more. The Turks pretty much wiped the Greek Christians off of Asia Minor and decimated the Armenian Christians. Soviet Communism wiped out millions of Christians. There are many more examples. In every case people looked forward to Jesus coming through the clouds, a rapture whatever... I think it is the inherent pride in humanity to believe that they are living in predicted times. So many people go straight to reading the exciting words in the Book of Revelation and over look the spiritual aspect of their own hearts. Even in the Bible, many Christians believed that Jesus was due back any moment and refused to work, prompting Paul to say that those who don't work don't eat.
Yeah, pray, have faith, fast, etc., but we are here to get off our butts and work as well.
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+rep
That is exactly what I was driving at in post #5
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
I know. I just had to say it again. I am a Christian, but I find the obsession with predicting the end of times a bit silly.
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"But"? One can easily be a Christian and find attempts to predict the end times silly.
Somehow I got the idea that Christians were supposed to be enough of a positive force to fix things and put off the end times.
Last edited by acptulsa; 08-28-2021 at 09:56 AM.
What is history? God holds time in his hands and does with it whatever he pleases. This idea that "2,000 years" is some kind of indicator of how much more suffering remains is not only a fallacy, it contradicts Scripture: "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done." (Revelation 22:12) "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:8)
In addition to the clear signs of Matthew 24 and other apocalyptic signs which many believers are seeing fulfilled before their own eyes (not in headlines or through other forms of hearsay), we have good reason to expect that the Lord will return very soon in human timescale -- he rose again on the third day, we have waited two days (2,000 years) already, so we are right now on the cusp of the third day. In any case, even supposing that the Lord Jesus chooses to delay for another 2,000 years (even though we have many good reasons to believe he will not), he has instructed us to live each day as though he is returning immediately: "The Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him." (Matthew 24:44) The very moment you are convinced in your mind "Jesus is not returning any time soon"... is the very moment when he has prophesied that he will indeed return.
"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed." (Revelation 16:15)
You know neither of those things. Empty suppositions. And in any case, there is no use comparing suffering or righteousness. That's the point of the Gospel... we are all sinners, saved by grace, nothing more. That is as true of those who were fed to the lions as it will be of the last generation who will be set upon by the Antichrist himself.The Christians persecution under Rome until Constantine legalized Christianity had it much worse than us and deserved deliverance more.
Numbers don't matter.The Turks pretty much wiped the Greek Christians off of Asia Minor and decimated the Armenian Christians. Soviet Communism wiped out millions of Christians. There are many more examples.
"Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God." (Psalm 20:7)
"Give us aid against the enemy, for human help is worthless. With God we will gain the victory, and he will trample down our enemies." (Psalm 108:12,13)
"The Midianites, the Amalekites and all the other eastern peoples had settled in the valley, thick as locusts. Their camels could no more be counted than the sand on the seashore ... When the three hundred trumpets sounded, the Lord caused the men throughout the camp to turn on each other with their swords. The army fled to Beth Sh!ttah toward Zererah as far as the border of Abel Meholah near Tabbath." (Judges 7:22)
"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." (1 Corinthians 1:27-29)
We are a feeble band, a remnant of outcasts and misfits. That is not an oversight, it is God's design and purpose.
That may be the case for some. These are those who Jesus will tell, "Get away from me, I never knew you." But the other way to look at it (biblically), is that no one will wait any longer than a natural human lifetime for the return of Christ. So, it is certainly true that Jesus is returning SOON, and it was as true for those being fed to the lions as it is for us today. That makes my point, not yours.In every case people looked forward to Jesus coming through the clouds, a rapture whatever... I think it is the inherent pride in humanity to believe that they are living in predicted times.
Elbow-grease is available in abundant supply. The virtue of diligence is a virtue, but it is far from the chief virtue. The chief virtues are explained in Scripture: Faith, Hope, Love, along with all the fruits of the Spirit -- love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Diligence is an aspect of self-control and it is for this reason that it has value and is a laudable virtue, but it is not the chief virtue. The flesh is also very capable of diligence in pursuit of its fleshly ends, look at the world around you... "Everybody's working for the weekend." Beware the counterfeit virtues which are no virtues at all, but vices...So many people go straight to reading the exciting words in the Book of Revelation and over look the spiritual aspect of their own hearts. Even in the Bible, many Christians believed that Jesus was due back any moment and refused to work, prompting Paul to say that those who don't work don't eat.
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
I have no time for a long winded debate on supposition. Let's cut to the chase.
I bet anyone on this forum $1000 the world won't end in one year. I bet anyone $10,000 it won't end in ten years.
I am 50 years old. My dad was a big fan of Hal Lindsey. Every few months, the the end was near. It's been that way through all of time. We're no different now. See you in 10 years. LOL.
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Yes, let's cut to the chase. These bets are meaningless in that they based on false premises, i.e. this idea that Jesus is going to appear in the clouds and start raining fire down from heaven until the entire planet is turned into a global lavascape. The world already ended circa 33AD, we're just awaiting fullness (glory). We are in the parenthesis of history:
All these people [our forefathers] were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Hebrews 11:13-16)
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
OK, so what are we arguing about?
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No argument. I realize that there have been many believers who have gotten obsessed with "the end" as if that is the point/purpose of Christian faith -- it is not, the end is really the beginning of eternal life and that is the point/purpose of Christian faith. So I realize where you're coming from. I was just giving the counterpoint, that we are to keep watch and to live each day realizing that Jesus is returning like a thief, that's all.
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
Sorry. I was posting in between playing soccer with my kids, and on top of that, I was trying to be funny in a discussion that I wasn't fully reading.
I do try to live my life spiritually as if I will die today. I also try to follow my earthly duties, being a father, as if I am laying a foundation for centuries to come.
As for focusing on the End of times, another danger besides what AF pointed out is the need to be aware of realities. I am an Orthodox Christian and the harsh realities Bolshevik Revolution really caught my attention. I have read stories by and about Christians imprisoned in the gulags during the persecutions. There is a danger in not spiritually preparing for such an event, but instead having faith that God will whisk you away. I really don't fear my mortality, but beneath my joking around, there is concern of what may be coming and what we may leave our offspring.
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We are arguing about whether a kind and just God has left 8 billion of us here at the dead end of a dead world in a dead age: helpless, hapless and hopeless of being able to change our fate, turn things for the better and self determine our free will that God created (cursed) us with.
If that's the fact, then all 8 billion of us are "the last man to die in Afghanistan".
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
God didn't cause the mess. It's self inflicted. I don't blame him.
Whatever your belief, we all will die someday. So don't sweat it. You're only here for a century or so if you're lucky, not eternity.
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What you're expressing here is one of the biggest reasons that I think we do not have enough teaching in modern times about the glory of God and what that really means. You are right that the world is in a desperate predicament. And it's still not as bad as God has already told us it's going to get: " For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again." (Matthew 24:21) Things are going to get worse than Noah's Flood. That's how bad it's going to get. And why is God allowing it to get this bad? For the glory!
But what, exactly, is glory? Grab any random person off the street and ask them this question and you are unlikely to get a coherent answer. The best you will probably get is a web search and get read a definition from an online dictionary. There are many places in history and fiction that we can point to in order to illustrate what glory is. One film that has many examples of glory is the film Gladiator. What is the gladiator trying to do? Maximus learns the hard way that a gladiator's real job is to win the crowd -- it's not enough to just strike down the opponents with military efficiency and challenge the crowd, "Are you not entertained?!" The crowd is what gives glory -- even an emperor cannot defy the crowd as Commodus realizes after Maximus refuses to give his name and reveals he is loyal to Marcus Aurelius, while the crowd chants, "Live! Live! Live!"
I hope you can see where this is going and I do not need to fill in more mundane examples of the transcendent glory of God. The more desperate our circumstances, the greater the glory in salvation. And before getting pissed off at God as though he is merely toying with us, do take a look at the book of Job. God is greater than us, and this is just how things are. There is no more point in chafing at it than there is in getting upset that the force of gravity nails us all to the ground and keeps us from flying. The present distress is great and will become greater. There is no surprise in this.
I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. (John 8:50)
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
Not sure if this is a thread hijack or thread recovery, but I'm against an article 5 convention.
“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”
H.L. Mencken
What if you're wrong?
What if this is no more the beginning of the end of days than a hundred other points in history where people thought it was "the time", and were wrong, and died for their mistake?
My course of action has fail safes for both possibilities.
I'm sure you've heard the old parable of the Shipwrecked Man, that's what this reminds me of.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
I dont really care one way or the other . Itd be like rolling the dice at best yes but really its too late I think anyway .
Do something Danke
Also, life isn't that bad if you focus on what you can control, and not let the rest affect you. Also accept the fact you will die someday. If Christianity leaves a bad taste in your mouth, check out the stoic philosophers. One of the respected writers, Marcus Aurelius, was an emperor. Another, Epictetus, was a slave. Both were stoicly happy people.
I don't believe much of what I see on the news. I do watch it so I am aware how crazy, fearful and angry those around me will be.
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I think there is a fundamental miscommunication that most people have when talking/thinking about the end of the Age, especially among Christians. The end of this world is not primarily about the material destruction of the planet. That will also occur, but perhaps it is billions of years into the future. We just don't know, and the Bible says nothing about it one way, or the other, it only tells us that the world will be destroyed by fire (physical, as well as spiritual). But the spiritual destruction of this world by unquenchable flames is imminent. It has always been imminent, and no believer has waited longer than a natural lifetime for it to begin. So that is the fallacy in the idea that "God is taking a long time." This is using God's own perspective of time (he sees the millenia passing by, we do not) against him, which doesn't make sense. Instead, we have to look at it from our own, individual perspective. "How long will I wait until the Kingdom arrives?" One way or the other -- not long. Seventy years is not a mere weekend, but it is a blip on the radar by comparison to eternal life.
The death of the body is also misunderstood or poorly communicated about. Death is nothing to the believer, "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." (Philippians 1:21) The body and the material world do not define life (or death). True death is spiritual and, if you're spiritually dead, it doesn't matter whether you are "alive" in the body or not. The zombies stumbling out of the nightclub at 4AM Saturday morning are dead. We can see that they are animated, but they are animated corpses, viewed spiritually. So bodily life and bodily death merely picture the real life and real death, which are spiritual. The trouble is that we attribute primacy to material life and death, as though having a heartbeat defines what is life (or not).
Once we clear this up, there is no more sense of "dying for the mistake" of thinking that the Kingdom is imminent. In fact, the Kingdom is already here: "Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, 'The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.'" (Luke 17:20,21) Note that "in your midst" can also be translated "within you." So it is sometimes called "already and not yet". The Kingdom is already here, but it is not yet here in its fullness.
"He told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.'" (Matthew 13:31,32) This parable should be pretty easy to understand with 2,000 years of hindsight and I think it goes to show that "it's all part of the plan." If God had wanted to change the world like Thanos, with a snap of his fingers, he could have. But he chose not to do it that way, and for a reason. Understanding that reason is part of what the Gospel is about.
I'm not sure which one you're referring to, I looked on a web search and there appear to be multiple.My course of action has fail safes for both possibilities.
I'm sure you've heard the old parable of the Shipwrecked Man, that's what this reminds me of.
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
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