Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: “It’s Hard to Imagine a More Incompetent Withdrawal” Dr. Paul Addresses Afghan Withdrawal

  1. #1

    “It’s Hard to Imagine a More Incompetent Withdrawal” Dr. Paul Addresses Afghan Withdrawal

    “It’s Hard to Imagine a More Incompetent Withdrawal” Dr. Paul Addresses Afghan Withdrawal

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Great interview with Rand! Not what the MIC shills wanted to hear.

    The current situation in Kabul reminds me of the Obama/Clinton fiasco in Benghazi. Probably "planned" and managed by a lot of the same people.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    I haven't listened to the interview.

    But a point that I think should be made is that, when getting into a war like this in the first place, the high risk that the withdrawal down the road will be done incompetently needs to be considered.

    Every time people support any policy, whether it be a war or any other government program, they always just assume that it will be executed in an ideal way. And then if it isn't, they won't blame the policy, they'll just say it was done wrong, without considering that they should always anticipate that the reality of how a government executes any policy when it's put in the hands of the kinds of people who populate the government is that myriad mistakes will be made.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 08-26-2021 at 06:27 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I haven't listened to the interview.

    But a point that I think should be made is that, when getting into a war like this in the first place, the high risk that the withdrawal down the road will be done incompetently needs to be considered.

    Every time people support any policy, whether it be a war or any other government program, they always just assume that it will be executed in an ideal way. And then if it isn't, they won't blame the policy, they'll just say it was done wrong, without considering that they should always anticipate that the reality of how a government executes any policy when it's put in the hands of the kinds of people who populate the government needs to be that myriad mistakes will be made.
    It was. Trump had it covered. Biden ignored and fired his team and $#@!ed it up. Now Biden blames the Taliban, the Afghan Gov. and military and Trump.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    It was.
    If Bush had really considered that, then it's hard to see how a cost benefit analysis would have led him to think regime change in Afghanistan was a good idea.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  7. #6
    Bush is like a guy who put a bunch of expensive spinning plates up on sticks and did an act balancing those expensive spinning plates, and then never figured out how to get the plates back down off the sticks, and handed them off to his successor to take care of, and then when his successor dropped the plates, the Bush apologists want to say it was the other guy's fault for not getting the plates off the sticks right, which Bush didn't do either, without considering the obvious point that the bulk of the blame goes to the guy who put the spinning plates on the sticks and then handed them off to someone else over whose actions he had no control.

    Again, when considering the implementation of any government policy, poor execution by future administrations should be positively counted on as one of the inherent costs built into the policy.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 08-26-2021 at 06:39 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    If Bush had really considered that, then it's hard to see how a cost benefit analysis would have led him to think regime change in Afghanistan was a good idea.
    You know damn well I was speaking about...

    the high risk that the withdrawal down the road will be done incompetently needs to be considered.
    Trump considered it and even before negotiations told the Taliban leader that U.S. Forces would destroy them like the Caliphate in Syria. Pompeo was there on the call and backs it up.

    And if you want to call bull$#@! that's fine. But both you and I know Trump is enough of an egomaniac that he would NEVER have allowed this debacle.

    It was a threat. A REAL threat.

    And it stopped them from killing for a year and a half.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    You know damn well I was speaking about...
    If that's what you were talking about then why mention Trump? 2001 was 15 years before Trump would be elected.

    I get it though. With you, all roads lead to Trump. No matter what the question is, the answer is, "Orange man good."
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    If that's what you were talking about then why mention Trump? 2001 was 15 years before Trump would be elected.

    I get it though. With you, all roads lead to Trump. No matter what the question is, the answer is, "Orange man good."
    You focused on the front end and avoided the back end. That's what your kind does.

    "Orange man doesn't suck anywhere near as bad as Biden does."

  12. #10
    https://twitter.com/Thomas1774Paine/...18626279170048


    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...03812081414144

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Every time people support any policy, whether it be a war or any other government program, they always just assume that it will be executed in an ideal way. And then if it isn't, they won't blame the policy, they'll just say it was done wrong, without considering that they should always anticipate that the reality of how a government executes any policy when it's put in the hands of the kinds of people who populate the government is that myriad mistakes will be made.
    If people could understand that, then we wouldn't have 99% of the world's problems. Unfortunately, it's not intuitive. People really do believe the Rousseau vision that it's the government's job to execute the general will of the people. And that if the will of the people is determined through democratic processes, that the purpose of government is to give the people what they willed.

    The question of whether governments are capable of executing that will is hardly considered. It is far more likely that failures of government will be laid at the feet of this politician or that one. I'm not letting these politicians and bureaucrats off the hook - some are better at managing things than others. They have an incentive to try to keep things afloat until they're out of their position and it lands on the next manager. (Usually, by expending more resources) But ultimately, government failure is guaranteed. Because the institutional incentives of politicians and bureaucrats are not aligned with executing the will of the people, but with covering their own asses. It's government's fatal flaw. Our Founders understood that. But most people today don't even consider it.

    So, we give government the responsibility for nearly every aspect of our lives. And then they foreseeably mess it up. What's worse is that we've given that same government responsibility for the education of our children. Well, of course those same government politicians and bureaucrats have the incentive to make sure that no one even questions whether governments are capable of executing the people's will - only that it's their job to do so.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    If people could understand that, then we wouldn't have 99% of the world's problems. Unfortunately, it's not intuitive. People really do believe the Rousseau vision that it's the government's job to execute the general will of the people. And that if the will of the people is determined through democratic processes, that the purpose of government is to give the people what they willed.

    The question of whether governments are capable of executing that will is hardly considered. It is far more likely that failures of government will be laid at the feet of this politician or that one. I'm not letting these politicians and bureaucrats off the hook - some are better at managing things than others. They have an incentive to try to keep things afloat until they're out of their position and it lands on the next manager. (Usually, by expending more resources) But ultimately, government failure is guaranteed. Because the institutional incentives of politicians and bureaucrats are not aligned with executing the will of the people, but with covering their own asses. It's government's fatal flaw. Our Founders understood that. But most people today don't even consider it.

    So, we give government the responsibility for nearly every aspect of our lives. And then they foreseeably mess it up. What's worse is that we've given that same government responsibility for the education of our children. Well, of course those same government politicians and bureaucrats have the incentive to make sure that no one even questions whether governments are capable of executing the people's will - only that it's their job to do so.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again."
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/Thomas1774Paine/...18626279170048


    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...03812081414144
    But those numbers dont count the thousands written off as lost , stolen , needing repairs from the obama admin time . Eight years of constantly losing vehicles so really much higher.
    Do something Danke

  16. #14
    Paul is correct . When you withdrawal all of those people who are not armed , trained , professional combatants need to be removed first. So yes this is a cluster$#@! of the worst order. This just cost 13 American lives yesterday that was totally not needed . It was clearly apparent to rational people by the end of the Bush time that this withdrawal needed done . Obama doubled down for eight years costing thousands of lives . Now biden is just getting people killed out of pure stupidity . Dereliction of duty .
    Do something Danke

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    ...

    The current situation in Kabul reminds me of the Obama/Clinton fiasco in Benghazi. Probably "planned" and managed by a lot of the same people.
    I keep hearing similarities. In both cases, you had the Administration negotiating for security with either the Taliban or some Islamic militia.

    "We don't understand security, policing, military or anything like that, but these guys seem like they do it all the time, so we can trust them to take care of it for us. This is all beneath us, there must be some brown skinned person who can do this grunt work for us for cheap."
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Paul is correct . When you withdrawal all of those people who are not armed , trained , professional combatants need to be removed first. So yes this is a cluster$#@! of the worst order. This just cost 13 American lives yesterday that was totally not needed . It was clearly apparent to rational people by the end of the Bush time that this withdrawal needed done . Obama doubled down for eight years costing thousands of lives . Now biden is just getting people killed out of pure stupidity . Dereliction of duty .
    Oh really? What part of REALLY LEAVING don't you appreciate? Is the DS trying to pull Biden BACK into Afghanistan? Of course they are.
    No matter who the president is, or what he does, the DS is going to launch terrorist attacks if the president does something they don't like.

    Who do you think moved ISIS out of Raqqa by busloads into Afghanistan? Who do you think pays them?
    Do you really know who bombed the airport? Why did the troops fire on all the Afghans?

    Trump didn't get us out of Iraq or Syria, and you think he would have gotten us out of Afghanistan? No Way.
    He would have kept the occupation going, at Bagram AFB and via thousands of "contractors".

    In this one move, Biden did more to stand up to the DS than Trump ever did in 4 years of his loudmouthed clown act.
    Last edited by Snowball; 08-30-2021 at 07:29 AM.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    In this one move, Biden did more to stand up to the DS than Trump ever did in 4 years of his loudmouthed clown act.
    You think Biden is standing up to the deep state? Biden? Doddering, senile old decades long reliable tool Biden?

    Seriously?

    What is this fascination people have with authority and titles? How do these things shut down brain cells? Dude. Go to Mirriam Webster and look up the word figurehead already.

    Support for this MIC/Big Pharma/Big Oil attempt to control Caspian gas and poppies fell through the basement floor. They're trying to false flag it back up. They won't even let Biden answer questions about it.

    Careful talking about loudmouthed clown acts. You might get accused of projection. Biden standing up to the Deep State. No pill can cure all the things wrong with that.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You think Biden is standing up to the deep state? Biden? Doddering, senile old decades long reliable tool Biden?

    Seriously?

    What is this fascination people have with authority and titles? How do these things shut down brain cells? Dude. Go to Mirriam Webster and look up the word figurehead already.

    Support for this MIC/Big Pharma/Big Oil attempt to control Caspian gas and poppies fell through the basement floor. They're trying to false flag it back up. They won't even let Biden answer questions about it.

    Careful talking about loudmouthed clown acts. You might get accused of projection. Biden standing up to the Deep State. No pill can cure all the things wrong with that.
    I am continuously aware of your point, and agree! pervasively so, HOWEVER - is the U.S. leaving Afghanistan or not?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I am continuously aware of your point, and agree! pervasively so, HOWEVER - is the U.S. leaving Afghanistan or not?
    That remains to be seen. Our permanent exit is still very much in question.

    But poppies and oil are yesterday's markets. We're moving on to cocaine, meth and battery materials from South America and Central Africa. What's a few hundred dead bodies compared to the future, amirite?!!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    That remains to be seen. Our permanent exit is still very much in question.

    But poppies and oil are yesterday's markets. We're moving on to cocaine, meth and battery materials from South America and Central Africa. What's a few hundred dead bodies compared to the future, amirite?!!
    It's about having a Western front against Iran.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    It's about having a Western front against Iran.
    Isn't west, like, thataway <--?

    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Oh really? What part of REALLY LEAVING don't you appreciate? Is the DS trying to pull Biden BACK into Afghanistan? Of course they are.
    No matter who the president is, or what he does, the DS is going to launch terrorist attacks if the president does something they don't like.

    Who do you think moved ISIS out of Raqqa by busloads into Afghanistan? Who do you think pays them?
    Do you really know who bombed the airport? Why did the troops fire on all the Afghans?

    Trump didn't get us out of Iraq or Syria, and you think he would have gotten us out of Afghanistan? No Way.
    He would have kept the occupation going, at Bagram AFB and via thousands of "contractors".

    In this one move, Biden did more to stand up to the DS than Trump ever did in 4 years of his loudmouthed clown act.
    Not really sure what any of that means but in no way will you convince me that the best way to withdrawal is leaving unarmed civilians as the rear guard in a cluster$#@! with a Marine platoon. While I dont have a lot of experience with withdrawals I have been in some running gun battles as rear guard once over run or getting into extremely large forces that that always reliable intel didnt seem to know were there. If you want to see how some withdrawal is done take a look at the French and British who concluded a couple days ago. First all non combatants , then the soldiers.
    Do something Danke

  26. #23
    We definitely should have left Afghanistan, like 20 years ago, but I don't see how anyone could disagree with Oyarde here. There is a way you withdraw. Biden set a great example of how not to withdraw.

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Not really sure what any of that means but in no way will you convince me that the best way to withdrawal is leaving unarmed civilians as the rear guard in a cluster$#@! with a Marine platoon. While I dont have a lot of experience with withdrawals I have been in some running gun battles as rear guard once over run or getting into extremely large forces that that always reliable intel didnt seem to know were there. If you want to see how some withdrawal is done take a look at the French and British who concluded a couple days ago. First all non combatants , then the soldiers.
    ...

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/Thomas1774Paine/...18626279170048


    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...03812081414144
    Are these to be sold in the Black Market? Or Biden has a plan to recover these things?



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by alivecream View Post
    Are these to be sold in the Black Market? Or Biden has a plan to recover these things?
    Modern military vehicles don't stay operational long without constant and intensive maintenance. That seems to be as much of a plan as they have for taking responsibility for leaving dangerous toys lying around.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

    "All I know is what I read in the newspapers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance."--Will Rogers



Similar Threads

  1. Accelerate Afghan Troop Withdrawal
    By TaftFan in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-13-2013, 05:26 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 02:24 PM
  3. Republicans Vow to Cancel Afghan war withdrawal
    By Anti Federalist in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 11-05-2010, 06:30 PM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-12-2009, 08:52 AM
  5. Gorbachev Says Obama Should Start Afghan Withdrawal
    By ShowMeLiberty in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-10-2009, 11:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •