The myth that the proliferation of gun owners is gonna make a difference....

[Danke]

Go $#@! yourself.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

[CaptUSA]

Oh wow.. Getting a little more aggressive aren't we, agent?

Albert Hirschman wrote a book called Exit, Voice, and Loyalty. The basic premise is that people have 3 ways of dealing with dissatisfaction. They can remain quiet and accept the dissatisfaction (loyalty), they can speak up and strive for change and try to get things fixed (voice), or they can remove themselves from the situation and seek alternatives (exit). What you are seeing is a switch from Voice to Exit.

The State has an interest in keeping its subjects loyal. If people begin to get dissatisfied, the State tries to control the voice. (which, by the way, they are doing masterfully) The last thing the State can accept is people trying to exit. So, when people feel like their voices are being squelched, they will predictably start planning for the exit and the State's response to their exit. Aggression?? I'm pretty sure the aggression is on the other side!

[phill4paul]

This is not the right way to think about why governments are always opposed to an armed populace. It's (mostly) not about organized, armed resistance. It's about logistics. Even if the President ordered the US military to go out and seize guns en masse, it would be an absolute logistical nightmare. Behind every door is potentially a crazed gun-nut clinging to his last reason to live. It's no different in those parts of the ME where citizen gun-ownership is widespread. The 20+ year war in Afghanistan proves the point in exquisite detail. Whenever Afghanis "organize" and "form units" they are obliterated from 30,000 feet by JDAMs and gunships they never saw coming. And yet it's still taken the world's most powerful military 20+ years to make... basically zero progress in "conquering" the Afghanis.

The other "unspoken" reality about widespread gun-ownership in more independence-minded regions of the country is that it makes it much easier for local governments to simply give DC the finger and secede from the Union. Your backwoods militia offers less resistance to the US military than a gnat being rolled under a tank-tread on concrete. But if a local government chooses to call on its citizens to be prepared to assist the Sheriff in expelling any foreign invaders (including the Feds), you have a serious problem on your hands. Not because the US military couldn't win (they have more than enough weapons to massacre anyone, anywhere, at a moment's notice), but because the political costs of military action would be so high that it would moot the entire program. Bulldoze one local government (and its citizens) and watch as 1,000 others will suddenly see the light and follow suit (secede). The DC swamp understands all of this-- it's all just part of the calculus (game theory).

The attitude you're criticizing among the Don't Tread On Me types is, as you note, BS. But what you are offering in its place is just another variant of BS.

Think of it like a football game. On one side you have an NFL team. They have a playbook and practice often enough to know it by heart. On the other side you have a bunch of big ass Iowa farm boys. In physicality just as big and strong as those on the NFL team. But, they have never practiced together, hell, don't really know each other or what one another is capable of. They don't have a playbook.
Now throw them on the football field. Let's say the Iowa farm boys win the toss. They get first possession. The clock is ticking. First they are trying to figure out who's going to be quarterback? Is Joe Bob gonna be center? Bubba played QB in high school, what about him, says another. Bobby Lee says "Well, I want to be running back."
And while they are figuring it out the whistle blows. 10 yard penalty.
The ball is placed and the clock starts ticking again. Huddling up quickly they scramble to get something, anything done. The Bubba tells Sonny that they are gonna run a reverse. Sonny having never played football asks Bubba "What's a reverse?" While explaining what a reverse is the whistle blows. 10 yard penalty.
I think you can see where I'm going with this.

And while our military, which is not very big and most members deal with logistics for the fighting units, there is Homeland Security, FBI, DHS, ATF, (an endless list of alphabets) all now armed with an endless supply of ammunition. Billions of rounds. Now, depending on the scenario, add in some blue helmets, and and a goodly amount battle hardened contractors from around the world.

I cannot see why any would take offence at my suggestion that they get with some neighbors and put in some training time together. Whether it be small unit tactics or comms or medical training it is at least a small step in the right direction before the first kick of the game.
And if nothing comes to pass? Then at least you get to know your neighbors, have some fun together on a weekend and at the end of the day grill up some steaks, pour some good whiskey and fire up a cigar.

[CaptUSA]

Think of it like a football game. On one side you have an NFL team. They have a playbook and practice often enough to know it by heart. On the other side you have a bunch of big ass Iowa farm boys. In physicality just as big and strong as those on the NFL team. But, they have never practiced together, hell, don't really know each other or what one another is capable of. They don't have a playbook.
Now throw them on the football field. Let's say the Iowa farm boys win the toss. They get first possession. The clock is ticking. First they are trying to figure out who's going to be quarterback? Is Joe Bob gonna be center? Bubba played QB in high school, what about him, says another. Bobby Lee says "Well, I want to be running back."
And while they are figuring it out the whistle blows. 10 yard penalty.
The ball is placed and the clock starts ticking again. Huddling up quickly they scramble to get something, anything done. The Bubba tells Sonny that they are gonna run a reverse. Sonny having never played football asks Bubba "What's a reverse?" While explaining what a reverse is the whistle blows. 10 yard penalty.
I think you can see where I'm going with this.

And while our military, which is not very big and most members deal with logistics for the fighting units, there is Homeland Security, FBI, DHS, ATF, (an endless list of alphabets) all now armed with an endless supply of ammunition. Billions of rounds. Now, depending on the scenario, add in some blue helmets, and and a goodly amount battle hardened contractors from around the world.

I cannot see why any would take offence at my suggestion that they get with some neighbors and put in some training time together. Whether it be small unit tactics or comms or medical training it is at least a small step in the right direction before the first kick of the game.
And if nothing comes to pass? Then at least you get to know your neighbors, have some fun together on a weekend and at the end of the day grill up some steaks, pour some good whiskey and fire up a cigar.

[Anti Federalist]

Think of it like a football game. On one side you have an NFL team. They have a playbook and practice often enough to know it by heart. On the other side you have a bunch of big ass Iowa farm boys. In physicality just as big and strong as those on the NFL team. But, they have never practiced together, hell, don't really know each other or what one another is capable of. They don't have a playbook.
Now throw them on the football field. Let's say the Iowa farm boys win the toss. They get first possession. The clock is ticking. First they are trying to figure out who's going to be quarterback? Is Joe Bob gonna be center? Bubba played QB in high school, what about him, says another. Bobby Lee says "Well, I want to be running back."
And while they are figuring it out the whistle blows. 10 yard penalty.
The ball is placed and the clock starts ticking again. Huddling up quickly they scramble to get something, anything done. The Bubba tells Sonny that they are gonna run a reverse. Sonny having never played football asks Bubba "What's a reverse?" While explaining what a reverse is the whistle blows. 10 yard penalty.
I think you can see where I'm going with this.

And while our military, which is not very big and most members deal with logistics for the fighting units, there is Homeland Security, FBI, DHS, ATF, (an endless list of alphabets) all now armed with an endless supply of ammunition. Billions of rounds. Now, depending on the scenario, add in some blue helmets, and and a goodly amount battle hardened contractors from around the world.

I cannot see why any would take offence at my suggestion that they get with some neighbors and put in some training time together. Whether it be small unit tactics or comms or medical training it is at least a small step in the right direction before the first kick of the game.
And if nothing comes to pass? Then at least you get to know your neighbors, have some fun together on a weekend and at the end of the day grill up some steaks, pour some good whiskey and fire up a cigar.

A great analogy, but it's even worse than that.

The farm boys don't even know the object of the game is to move the ball downfield to score.

Comms, OPSEC, small unit training, basic rifleman training, trauma treatment, as you mentioned, the list in endless.

And all of this training has real world applications even if the $#@! does not hit the fan.

Spending an afternoon with friends, neighbors or family doing this is a metric $#@! ton more productive than sitting around screaming at the sportsball on TeeVee.

ETA - Apologies for putting words in your mouth during the course of this thread.

[phill4paul]

A great analogy, but it's even worse than that.

The farm boys don't even know the object of the game is to move the ball downfield to score.

Comms, OPSEC, small unit training, basic rifleman training, trauma treatment, as you mentioned, the list in endless.

And all of this training has real world applications even if the $#@! does not hit the fan.

Spending an afternoon with friends, neighbors or family doing this is a metric $#@! ton more productive than sitting around screaming at the sportsball on TeeVee.

ETA - Apologies for putting words in your mouth during the course of this thread.

No worries brother. Thanks. You put much more into it than I was going to. Lol. I have a low tolerance for trying to hash things out with $#@!wits these days.

[TheTexan]

If you have some time build a cabin in the middle of nowhere, away from any hiking trails etc.

Stock it with essentials with perhaps a munitions dump buried nearby.

[TheTexan]

Also, probably a good idea to have some crypto and know how to use it. When they come after you, your bank and credit card will be frozen.

Have a way to stay connected when off-grid & hunted by the state

[ClaytonB]

And while our military, which is not very big

and most members deal with logistics for the fighting units, there is Homeland Security, FBI, DHS, ATF, (an endless list of alphabets) all now armed with an endless supply of ammunition. Billions of rounds. Now, depending on the scenario, add in some blue helmets, and and a goodly amount battle hardened contractors from around the world.

I cannot see why any would take offence at my suggestion that they get with some neighbors and put in some training time together. Whether it be small unit tactics or comms or medical training it is at least a small step in the right direction before the first kick of the game.

That scenario will never play out, at least, not in reality (anything, of course, can "happen" in the fake news). "They have blown the trumpet, they have made all things ready, but no one will go into battle, for my wrath is on the whole crowd." (Ezekiel 7:14) The whole concept is flawed at its core. Both sides want a brawl because they are both convinced "God is on my side". In reality, God is not on anybody's "side". If you're a secularist, you might object, "What does God have anything to do with this?" but that's missing the point -- symbolically speaking, God is whatever is the ultimate cause of righteousness (what the medievals would have called "virtue" in respect to "strength"), as you see it. Whatever that thing is, that is God to you -- that is the cause of righteousness that fills your heart with davidic fire to strike down Goliath himself. So everybody has got some narrative in their head about how their feelings of self-righteousness are the true and righteous feelings, and they're ready to "die for what they believe in." They're all wrong.

And if nothing comes to pass? Then at least you get to know your neighbors, have some fun together on a weekend and at the end of the day grill up some steaks, pour some good whiskey and fire up a cigar.

Well, the concept of integrating with existing emergency-response should be encouraged a lot more among the liberty community. Every form of decentralization is a restraint against tyranny, even if that is something as simple as volunteering with your county-level disaster-response agency. The more robust every locality is against natural disasters, the less dependent they are on the fedgod and the easier it is for them to tell DC to keep its carrot-bribes printed up on their printing press at the Fed. So yes, you should organize with your neighbors (meaning, your community's existing disaster-preparedness, emergency-response, etc.) Most police/sheriff will have various roles that civilian volunteers can perform and filling those roles (sincerely) does contribute to accountability of those agencies... the more eyes looking at something, the less likely it is that corruption will go unnoticed.

Independent, private organizations such as food co-ops are also beneficial. And while you can organize community-watch or even paramilitary groups, it is key to keep in mind what the motivation is. If you live in a really remote, rural area, then perhaps you need to bolster your local response in case the Sheriff's response-time is too high. But if you are trying to prepare for a scenario where you would end up in a shootout with the police or the Feds, you are on the wrong path. I don't exclude the possibility that things could go completely off the rails in our country, but when that happens, you will know what you ought to do. There is no need to go out in the woods and pretend we're living in the Walking Dead series to "prepare". And weekend warriors will fare no better against professional soldiers than completely untrained individuals would. So if you ever did face off against armor in some post-apocalyptic scenario, you're dead-meat, no matter what "preparations" you made. So it's just mental masturbation for those with Rambo fantasies.

In reality, what makes widespread, popular gun ownership so odious to tyrants is the very fact that it is a completely decentralized, uncoordinated fabric. Any form of coordination that is supposed to be "independent" can and will be infiltrated. So the final backstop is popular gun ownership itself. That is the "checkmate". And that's why the anti-gun tyrants want to encourage all gun owners to "join a club", so they can be counted and rostered. A quantified threat is far more manageable than an unquantified one.

[BSWPaulsen]

I've been suggesting for some time that you and him both are trying to stir up angst and animosity. You've went from cops to blacks in the time I've been here, endlessly linking articles telling us why we need to be outraged and at who. Never level headed takes, never level headed thinking, it's always anger/angst/fighting/separation.. Both of you, and others as well. I've sat back and watched these years I didnt log in, so I have the advantage of a 3rd party look at everything.

I'm sure I'll be banned or blocked or muted or whatever, it's the same M.O. everywhere but that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that you, phil, BWPaulsen, NC Liberty and a few others are either so mad and messed up upstairs that you're no good to level headed people in your current state, or you're being paid to incite anger and violence.

Getting name dropped by one of the resident Eunuchs is always a good sign and especially so when my name is listed alongside people meriting the epithet man.

What should scare the hell out of you is all of those men you listed are more calm and dispassionate about the whole thing than your infantile whining in this entire thread indicates you to be. You are not level headed. You are a coward.

[TheTexan]

There is no need to go out in the woods and pretend we're living in the Walking Dead series to "prepare". And weekend warriors will fare no better against professional soldiers than completely untrained individuals would. So if you ever did face off against armor in some post-apocalyptic scenario, you're dead-meat, no matter what "preparations" you made. So it's just mental masturbation for those with Rambo fantasies.

It's not gonna go from a cool 72f to 300f degrees overnight.

It's gonna start small. People will be disappeared. Doors will be kicked in. There will likely be years of this, before any kind of mass warfare breaks out.

And the people on this forum? Our doors are getting kicked in first. AF first, specifically, but then the rest of us.

I don't plan on being present when they decide to 0-dark-30 me in my sleep.

So whether it's in the woods or at a relatives you trust or in an abandoned building, have a bug-out plan. Not just a bug-out bag. You might be living there for years. You're gonna want to get comfortable.

[BSWPaulsen]

It's not gonna go from a cool 72f to 300f degrees overnight.

It's gonna start small. People will be disappeared. Doors will be kicked in. There will likely be years of this, before any kind of mass warfare breaks out.

And the people on this forum? Our doors are getting kicked in first. AF first, specifically, but then the rest of us.

I don't plan on being present when they decide to 0-dark-30 me in my sleep.

So whether it's in the woods or at a relatives you trust or in an abandoned building, have a bug-out plan. Not just a bug-out bag. You might be living there for years. You're gonna want to get comfortable.

Having a plan is certainly prudent. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[ClaytonB]

It's not gonna go from a cool 72f to 300f degrees overnight.

It's gonna start small. People will be disappeared. Doors will be kicked in. There will likely be years of this, before any kind of mass warfare breaks out.

And the people on this forum? Our doors are getting kicked in first. AF first, specifically, but then the rest of us.

I don't plan on being present when they decide to 0-dark-30 me in my sleep.

So whether it's in the woods or at a relatives you trust or in an abandoned building, have a bug-out plan. Not just a bug-out bag. You might be living there for years. You're gonna want to get comfortable.

I'm pro-preparation. Preparing to take on the fedgod, however, is a fool's errand. They are not what they seem to be... or rather, he is not what he seems to be.

[belian78]

Getting name dropped by one of the resident Eunuchs is always a good sign and especially so when my name is listed alongside people meriting the epithet man.

What should scare the hell out of you is all of those men you listed are more calm and dispassionate about the whole thing than your infantile whining in this entire thread indicates you to be. You are not level headed. You are a coward.

You can be as calm as you want about sticking your head in an oven, you're still sticking your head in an oven. If I'm a coward because I see an oven for what it is, according to you, so be it. It changes my world not one tick.

[BSWPaulsen]

You can be as calm as you want about sticking your head in an oven, you're still sticking your head in an oven. If I'm a coward because I see an oven for what it is, according to you, so be it. It changes my world not one tick.

The bolded is what it is.

[belian78]

The bolded is what it is.

lol.. That's really not as smart or as deep as you intend, as the actionable part of the sentence is the prior piece. Which is, 'According to you'. But that is the way you work yes? Try and profane in order to attack.

[BSWPaulsen]

lol.. That's really not as smart or as deep as you intend, as the actionable part of the sentence is the prior piece. Which is, 'According to you'. But that is the way you work yes? Try and profane in order to attack.

Heh. It was not intended as "smart" or "deep" but rather "dismissive".

[Swordsmyth]

Oh wow.. Getting a little more aggressive aren't we, agent?

I suggest you are the agent.

Considering you tried to attack me for posting how people could try to resist forced vaccination:

And what to do when in states like IL where they no longer recognize religious exemption? Oh, and tell 69whatever that his first couple consultants were just arrested for making fake vaxx documents, next time you see him around the water cooler.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Oh wow.. Getting a little more aggressive aren't we, agent?

I've been suggesting for some time that you and him both are trying to stir up angst and animosity. You've went from cops to blacks in the time I've been here, endlessly linking articles telling us why we need to be outraged and at who. Never level headed takes, never level headed thinking, it's always anger/angst/fighting/separation.. Both of you, and others as well. I've sat back and watched these years I didnt log in, so I have the advantage of a 3rd party look at everything.

I'm sure I'll be banned or blocked or muted or whatever, it's the same M.O. everywhere but that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that you, phil, BWPaulsen, NC Liberty and a few others are either so mad and messed up upstairs that you're no good to level headed people in your current state, or you're being paid to incite anger and violence.

I suspect you of being AF's sock puppet, you two use the same vernacular quite frequently.

You know nothing about me, sir. And in fact, the reason I walked away from this site in the first place was that no one wanted to listen when myself and others suggested we work locally with people of all walks of life to change the political landscape from ground up. All the rage was spending large amounts of paper on things that made everyone feel good. Then, when I came back recently after the play ran out as it was set to, and everyone was wanting to storm the capital, you and your rage mongers attacked me for suggesting that soon R and D alike would need to work together against the state. All I've ever spoke about in terms of what to do, is to coordinate and build up local communities, politics and sides be damned.

If you're a real poster and not here to do a job, reflect on your anger. When in history has anger, and acting out of anger, ever done anything constructive? Outside a tiny minority of situations that were so very dire that a directly opposing dire action was needed. And no, we are not in any way in that kind of position no matter how much you'd like others to think we are.

The State, and our controllers, lose control the second humanity realizes it truly doesn't need to be ruled. Until then, it will be cycle after cycle of slowing being lead to absolute slavery, reset and then all over again. But one thing is absolutely for sure. Acting out of emotion and anger will do nothing but hurt you and play right into the hands of those that want to control you.

A big bunch of LOL right here. This sounds like the paid trolls--the group getting very desperate. So desperate with AF that they're trying all different strategies to silence him. Now, AF and The Texan are supposed to be the same guy. On top of that, AF is supposedly on someone's payroll! lol

Another troll giveaway is the blah blah story about being away from the site and returning because blah blah blah. Definitely a sock puppet.

Finally, the trolls here are desperately trying to sell the blah blah story of "powers that be" who enslave us all. You're familiar with it. It's basically a bunch of vague rich characters who rub their hands together and make everyone hate each other. The net effect is RPFers shaking their neutered fists at some nebulous force. In the meantime, the trolls achieve their goals.

By the way, Belian, I take your comment about me as a compliment. My upstairs salutes you!

[belian78]

What do y'all like to say so often? If you're getting fired upon, you're over the target? Don't like how someone is pointing out the hate/racism/division that's being nurtured around here? Call me a sock puppet, but Josh himself can attest to me being a real person. I met him and spent time along side him and a few others of the really early crew here, at the Ames Straw Poll back in 07. I know I'm real, and I know what I see from all of you.

[belian78]

And I will say this as well, it's rather heartening. Some long standing accounts have slid me some rep for posting in this thread, it's good to see.

[TheTexan]

And I will say this as well, it's rather heartening. Some long standing accounts have slid me some rep for posting in this thread, it's good to see.

I can take a pretty good guess who.

Finally, the trolls here are desperately trying to sell the blah blah story of "powers that be" who enslave us all. You're familiar with it. It's basically a bunch of vague rich characters who rub their hands together and make everyone hate each other.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Call me a sock puppet, but Josh himself can attest to me being a real person. I met him and spent time along side him and a few others of the really early crew here, at the Ames Straw Poll back in 07. I know I'm real, and I know what I see from all of you.

LOL. You don't identify yourself with a name and picture. You reference a gathering from 14 years ago. There over 22 thread pages on Ames, so you can claim to be anybody.

[cjm]

I've been suggesting for some time that you [AF] and him [phill4paul] both are trying to stir up angst and animosity....

Spent the afternoon yesterday with another long time RPF member in person and discussed this very thing, the absolute need of a mutual assistance network, a "Committee of Safety" to respond in event of attack, disaster or emergency.

The RPFer that AF is referring to is me, pursuant to this post: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6958544

I suspect that everyone participating in this thread has made up their minds on whether this person or that person is real or is an agent, but for the benefit of anyone reading that is trying to make sense of all of this, I can vouch that @Anti Federalist and @phill4paul are real people and not agents of anything except their own conscience and reason.

And for anyone who thinks the need for a committee of safety seems suspect, just search for "Rooftop Koreans" in your favorite search engine.

[nobody's_hero]

Seriously, you don’t see the $#@! show going around us right now?

No, he doesn't. A lot of people don't.

A lot of people here are still holding out hope that redcoats and minutemen will join hands and sing together at Bunker hill and turn on King George III, and everything else is just divisive nonsense.

[TheTexan]

I can vouch that @Anti Federalist and @phill4paul are real people and not agents of anything except their own conscience and reason.

Well it could be that all 3 of you are agents.

I'll ask my sources.

[ClaytonB]

Found-footage of me becoming an agent...

[TheTexan]

Found-footage of me becoming an agent...

You're pretty much the only one here I'm convinced is not an agent.

Everyone else? Sus.

[ClaytonB]

You're pretty much the only one here I'm convinced is not an agent.

Everyone else? Sus.

Seriously though, we can acknowledge the fact of infiltration and interference without resorting to accusations and finger-pointing. Suspicions are best kept to ourselves. Eventually, the wolves among the flock will expose themselves. In the meantime, if we descend into finger-pointing, then all possibility of communication and cooperation breaks down and guess who wins... the enemies of liberty... *sigh

[TheTexan]

Is that Catolf Hitler?