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Thread: They tell us vaccines are extremely effective...

  1. #1

    Exclamation They tell us vaccines are extremely effective...

    Then why do you need to wear a mask?

    They tell me I must vaccinate or else...

    So why is the US government seeding border invaders all around the country, none of whom have been medically screened for COVID, on trains planes and automobiles on my dime?
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.



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  3. #2
    To take your place when you're gone from the vaccine.

  4. #3
    to be subservient to them
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  5. #4
    Jimmy Dore has "long haul Covid" from the Moderna vaccine. His doctor admitted that he is treating 5 other patients for "long haul Covid" from the vaccines, including a nurse, and that they are afraid to speak out because they know they will be attacked.

    Dore also speaks highly of Ivermectin, and I think he even said he is taking it now under prescription for treatment of his long haul Covid, from the vaccine..

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Then why do you need to wear a mask?
    I think we have threads-complaints like this since morons in the news media are insulting everyone's intelligence in their advocacy and not providing people enough information. They are recommending this in hot spot areas to stop it from getting out of control.

    If you do get it while on the vax you have a much lower of risk (>89%) of getting seriously ill or dying from Covid. The mask reduces asymptomatic transmission to others if you catch it while on the vax.

    KN95 and N95 masks offer greater protection from catching it and then spreading it to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    They tell me I must vaccinate or else...
    The "or else" so far is grifters fear mongering for a buck based on comments from opposition loud mouths. Of course that could change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So why is the US government seeding border invaders all around the country, none of whom have been medically screened for COVID, on trains planes and automobiles on my dime?
    The Democrats quest to remain in power and gain power by importing voters is a greater in their eyes than saving lives.
    Last edited by kahless; 07-27-2021 at 11:17 PM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Jimmy Dore has "long haul Covid" from the Moderna vaccine. His doctor admitted that he is treating 5 other patients for "long haul Covid" from the vaccines, including a nurse, and that they are afraid to speak out because they know they will be attacked.

    Dore also speaks highly of Ivermectin, and I think he even said he is taking it now under prescription for treatment of his long haul Covid, from the vaccine..
    Maybe some truths here but I would not take any medical advice from a moron like Rogan. Not sure about the Dore character but I would not take medical advice from any pundit grifter whether on the right or left for that matter.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Maybe some truths here but I would not take any medical advice from a moron like Rogan. Not sure about the Dore character but I would not take medical advice from any pundit grifter whether on the right or left for that matter.
    Rogan probably has a better history of giving medical advice than anybody on the planet.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Then why do you need to wear a mask?
    Masks have always been to protect others, not the wearer.


    And the vaccines are effective. Take Oklahoma, for example:

    The Latest: Oklahoma new virus cases top 1,000 for third day
    ...

    Oklahoma ranked ninth in the nation with 249.8 new cases per 100,000 residents, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The number of hospitalizations reached 495 and health officials have estimated about 90% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. The CDC reported Oklahoma was 39th among the 50 states and the District of Columbia with 46.6% of the population having at least one vaccination.
    https://apnews.com/article/business-...f8c954c10817a3

    Less than half of the total population is vaccinated but 90% of the COVID hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. Seems like it's working to me.




    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So why is the US government seeding border invaders all around the country, none of whom have been medically screened for COVID, on trains planes and automobiles on my dime?
    It's not. But I don't doubt that some of your favorite websites are telling you that it is.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Rogan probably has a better history of giving medical advice than anybody on the planet.
    Rogan agrees with whoever talked to him last.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    If you do get it while on the vax you have a much lower of risk (>89%) of getting seriously ill or dying from Covid.
    This would be impressive if it were not a percent of an already exceedingly low percent. The term "statistically negligible" comes to mind.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Masks have always been to protect others, not the wearer.
    Paper and cloth masks protect nobody and numerous studies have shown that.


    And the vaccines are effective. Take Oklahoma, for example:

    Less than half of the total population is vaccinated but 90% of the COVID hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. Seems like it's working to me.
    Higher COVID Rate Found In Some Counties With Higher Vaccination Rate

    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2021...rnia-counties/

    It's not. But I don't doubt that some of your favorite websites are telling you that it is.
    Ah, so if the New York Times doesn't report it, it ain't happening....gotcha.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post
    This would be impressive if it were not a percent of an already exceedingly low percent. The term "statistically negligible" comes to mind.
    Bingo.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Paper and cloth masks protect nobody and numerous studies have shown that.




    Higher COVID Rate Found In Some Counties With Higher Vaccination Rate

    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2021...rnia-counties/



    Ah, so if the New York Times doesn't report it, it ain't happening....gotcha.
    Heh. Never mind the CDC guidance that the vaccinated do not need to be tested for the virus due to the claim that the chances of their infection is low even if they have been directly exposed to it, in turn immediately leading to higher numbers of the unvaccinated appearing to be at fault as they are the pool that gets tested.

    TheCount is nothing more than a different flavor of ZippyJuan. Same shtick.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ah, so if the New York Times doesn't report it, it ain't happening....gotcha.
    So, it's either/or? Either the Slimes or Zerowedge is The Gospel, and there's something wrong with us who don't buy the bull shoveled by either one?
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Higher COVID Rate Found In Some Counties With Higher Vaccination Rate

    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2021...rnia-counties/
    You quite obviously didn't even read the article. The bottom half of the article explains possible causes and includes case rates.


    He, like other infectious disease experts, warns that vaccinated people may be unknowingly spreading the virus.


    That doesn’t mean the vaccines don’t work — rates for infection and hospitalization remain vastly higher among the unvaccinated. So what’s going on? Experts point to two things: the extraordinary ease with which the virus’ now-dominant delta strain spreads, and the fact that no vaccine offers impenetrable protection.

    “I am not so surprised that transmission rates are not neatly tracking immunization rates,” said Dr. Stephen Luby, a medical professor specializing in infectious diseases at Stanford University.

    “There are a number of issues that contribute to transmission,” Luby said. “In high density urban settings, for example, even with a higher level of vaccine coverage, there can still be a lot of exposure to unvaccinated folks and potentially to folks who are vaccinated but are asymptomatically shedding the delta variant.”

    The California Department of Public Health reported Friday that between January 1 and July 14, 99% of the state’s cumulative cases have been among unvaccinated people.

    For the week of July 7-14, the average daily case rate per 100,000 among unvaccinated Californians was 13 while the rate for the vaccinated was 2, the CDPH said.



    A similar picture emerges locally. In Contra Costa County, which reports case rates by vaccination status, the average rate per 100,000 among the unvaccinated was 27.8 on July 16 — six times the 4.5 rate reported in the vaccinated population. In Sonoma County, the rate was 15.1 among the unvaccinated, and 3.7 for the vaccinated.


    An incredible easy explanation that isn't mentioned is... it's California, and the people there who are unvaccinated are probably masked and/or locked down, whereas the vaccinated are out doing things. Obviously transmission of the virus is vastly easier in the second case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ah, so if the New York Times doesn't report it, it ain't happening....gotcha.
    Pardon me for not believing amren when they say that the dirty covid mexicans are coming to rape my daughter.
    Last edited by TheCount; 07-28-2021 at 09:39 AM.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Paper and cloth masks protect nobody and numerous studies have shown that.
    There is some truth to that however if you are hacking up a lung from Covid, the cloth masks may stop you from spraying others. There was some evidence I posted here in the past that the more cloth layers the better at stopping some of the larger Covid particles and thus lessen the effects of the disease if you catch it. There was also this thing they call "Variolation", where by using the masks in this manner, allowing people to become infected, perhaps intentionally allowing people to become infected to create herd immunity.

    They lied about masks originally believing there were not enough N95 or KN95 masks on the market to go around for first responders.

    The news media advocacy on anything is always at a child like level so that the masses can understand. So your source of anger should be with the MSM for not providing any level of detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Higher COVID Rate Found In Some Counties With Higher Vaccination Rate

    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2021...rnia-counties/
    Fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections from the delta variant have a similar viral load to infections in unvaccinated people. That means the fully vaccinated are more likely to spread the virus with the delta variant than the original coronavirus.
    Last edited by kahless; 07-28-2021 at 09:44 AM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    What does that have to do with anything? Is the higher rate among the vaccinated? Not among the vaccinated? Are the cases mild? Severe?

    The bottom half of the article explains possible causes, but I'm guessing you only read the headline.



    An incredible easy explanation that isn't mentioned is... it's California, and the people there who are unvaccinated are probably masked and/or locked down, whereas the vaccinated are out doing things. Obviously transmission of the virus is vastly easier in the second case.
    Tell me... What percentage of hospitalizations are those who have already recovered from Covid?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    The real reason for telling people to wear masks is as a club to motivate people to get vaccinated.

    As Kamala Harris says here:
    People need to get vaccinated, that is the only way we are going to cut this thing off, nobody likes wearing a mask, get vaccinated.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...rates-n1275012

    They have found that statements like this don't have much potency among the people who still resist both vaccination and masks. So now they're telling this to the vaccinated people. Those people are a receptive audience to this messaging. And the hope is that they can create peer pressure for those who aren't.

    They hope this will make vaccinated people say to their unvaccinated friends and family members, "You guys are the reason I still have to wear a mask even though I'm vaccinated! You're being selfish! If you won't get the vaccine for yourself, then do it for the rest of us!" And they suppose that maybe, like a brow beaten husband, the vaccine resisters will only endure that nagging for so long before they buckle just to get these people to quit nagging them. It may not work, but it's the tactic of the day, since other things they've tried haven't worked.

    Edit: The other result that this new recommendation can bring about is that now stores and other public places have a reason to go back to mandating masks for everyone, instead of having those toothless signs that say that the vaccinated need not wear masks, which of course result in everybody not wearing masks on account of there not being a way to know who is or isn't vaccinated. Thus giving back some of the lost motivating power of the mask mandate club.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 07-28-2021 at 09:53 AM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Tell me... What percentage of hospitalizations are those who have already recovered from Covid?
    You're asking him? This is the guy who just quoted AP's CDC quotes and official estimations like they mean something.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So, it's either/or? Either the Slimes or Zerowedge is The Gospel, and there's something wrong with us who don't buy the bull shoveled by either one?
    Unfortunately none of us are immune from being infected by the highly politicized news cycle virus from time to time.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Unfortunately none of us are immune from being infected by the highly politicized news cycle virus from time to time.
    Dr. Paul immunized me, or finished the process.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Tell me... What percentage of hospitalizations are those who have already recovered from Covid?
    I haven't seen that stat anywhere.


    However, the % of people who test positive for covid antibodies after recovery is similar though slightly lower than the % who test positive after vaccination, so the level of protection provided by the two are likely somewhat similar.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You're asking him? This is the guy who just quoted AP's CDC quotes and official estimations like they mean something.
    None of those were from the CDC. Thanks for playing though.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    None of those were from the CDC. Thanks for playing though.
    No, thank you.
    "Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?"--Will Rogers



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The mask reduces asymptomatic transmission to others if you catch it while on the vax.
    Asymptomatic transmission doesn't exists. Not a single case has been identified or publicly shown or studied. As you indicated in your next reply, a mask may prevent a sick person from coughing or sneezing from transmitting. But the science is inconclusive, as dictator Fauci has shared, the virus is then in the mask and people fiddle with their mask then get virus on their hands and still transmit it that way. No better than covering your mouth when you cough/sneeze.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I haven't seen that stat anywhere.
    Hmmm.... Seems like a relevant data point since roughly a 3rd of the country has recovered from Covid based on the case numbers you've provided before.

    I wonder why we're not seeing that stat? Why are we not testing for antibodies prior to vaccination? It's the antibodies that matter, right? And you get a fuller set of antibodies from the virus than you do from mRNA shots.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No, thank you.
    You're quite right. I was thinking that you were referring to the Cali data.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Asymptomatic transmission doesn't exists. Not a single case has been identified or publicly shown or studied. As you indicated in your next reply, a mask may prevent a sick person from coughing or sneezing from transmitting. But the science is inconclusive, as dictator Fauci has shared, the virus is then in the mask and people fiddle with their mask then get virus on their hands and still transmit it that way. No better than covering your mouth when you cough/sneeze.
    Your post is just another example of politicization of Covid. Sure Fauci is a piece of garbage but this was not relevant to the facts we were discussing. Politically it would be wise for the left to dump Fauci at this point if they want to increase their vaccination drive and mask use in high risk areas.

    Of course some people do not use masks correctly. Some people just can't be helped. You do your best to educate the masses which is the best anyone could do.

    It is quite obvious that covering your mouth with your hand is no where near the protection a mask provides from sprayed droplets.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I wonder why we're not seeing that stat?
    Difficult to say if people have had it or not, given that many people might not have had symptoms strong enough to warrant getting tested or treated.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Why are we not testing for antibodies prior to vaccination?
    Cost and time, probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    It's the antibodies that matter, right? And you get a fuller set of antibodies from the virus than you do from mRNA shots.
    No. Actually, there's at least one study out there that says the opposite. That study suggest that the antibodies you get from COVID infection are specific to the variant of COVID that you had, whereas the vaccine gives you a broader immunity to more strains.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Your post is just another example of politicization of Covid.
    We should outlaw the use of masks during surgery since they're clearly worthless.
    "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
    -George Orwell, "Notes on nationalism"

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