Why don't we buy a country?

[TheTexan]

Step 1) Start collecting funds, either through a smart contract or escrow
Step 2) Negotiate a deal with an existing country to buy a piece of land. The deal requires that the country and neighboring countries recognize us as a new country
Step 3) Freedom

Surely there's enough people who want freedom in the world to collect enough money for this to work.

And yes I recognize that as a tiny country we would be beholden to various interests. Still a 100x better arrangement than today.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Sounds simple enough, how did we not come up with it before ?

[tod evans]

I've already bought my piece of a country and others are trying to steal it.

[ClaytonB]

Many variations on this have been tried. It's doomed. Look at existing national governments in, say, South America, vis-a-vis the US government. The US government is, de facto, an imperial hegemony. It's not (quite) fully global but it can be fairly described as hemispherical.

Related:

Sealand

Kailaasa

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55092341

List of micro-nations

How to claim your own island

There's a famous one whose name is completely escaping my mind... group of Americans purchased an uninhabited Pacific Island somewhere in the Asian side of the Pacific and tried to set up a colony there, including requesting formal recognition as a country. If I remember correctly, a national military (Chinese?) ended up just occupying the island after they had done some developments on it, and they were just forced off the island. There was no recourse. If anyone remembers the name of this island, please post it... I simply cannot remember and web search is useless for topics like this. UPDATE: cjm pointed out this this was the Republic of Minerva, it was not in the Asia-Pacific, it was north of NZ...

The sad fact is that most of these projects are started by and initially attract people who are just interested in doing illegal things they can't get away with in their home country. "No laws!" immediately attracts the worst-of-the-worst. A prison is also a place with no rules (when you really think about it) and the people who rule the roost there will always seize the dominant place in any such project, even if it is well-intentioned.

A more realistic alternative is seasteading. Because a seastead exists for some profitable purpose (it is a business, not a "government"), it's not just about "no rules, man!" or (what is the same) "our rules, man!" So the rule-sets that will tend to emerge will be like business policies in the important sense that business policies tend to converge on prevailing market practices. Most people expect to take a lunch break at work, and most employers provide this even if the government doesn't make them do it. So the concept behind seasteading is you have a market of competing seasteads and the policies that emerge will tend to converge on a rational set of rules/laws. In the terminology of economists, the current market in statutory laws is thin, meaning, "customers" (citizens) only have a tiny handful of choices to pick from. But if the market were thick, then we expect the producers of statutory laws (or business by-laws, just depends on how you think about it) to converge on customer (citizen) demands -- thick markets produce what customers want because customers have a lot of choices of where to buy from, so they don't have to put up with BS...

[Danke]

Step 1) Start collecting funds, either through a smart contract or escrow
Step 2) Negotiate a deal with an existing country to buy a piece of land. The deal requires that the country and neighboring countries recognize us as a new country
Step 3) Freedom

Surely there's enough people who want freedom in the world to collect enough money for this to work.

And yes I recognize that as a tiny country we would be beholden to various interests. Still a 100x better arrangement than today.

You just want US to have another country to bomb, don't ya?

[cjm]

There's a famous one whose name is completely escaping my mind...

Minerva maybe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva

[nikcers]

A nation can only be bought with blood. You can't really avoid the cost and when the check comes everyone always seems to have forgotten their wallet.

[ClaytonB]

Minerva maybe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva

Thank you, that's the one! Tongan military, not Chinese military (they weren't quite as much of a menace back then...) Also, I see that it was north of NZ, not in the Asia Pacific region... thanks again!

[TheTexan]

Many variations on this have been tried. It's doomed. Look at existing national governments in, say, South America, vis-a-vis the US government. The US government is, de facto, an imperial hegemony. It's not (quite) fully global but it can be fairly described as hemispherical.

Related:

Sealand

Kailaasa

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55092341

List of micro-nations

How to claim your own island

There's a famous one whose name is completely escaping my mind... group of Americans purchased an uninhabited Pacific Island somewhere in the Asian side of the Pacific and tried to set up a colony there, including requesting formal recognition as a country. If I remember correctly, a national military (Chinese?) ended up just occupying the island after they had done some developments on it, and they were just forced off the island. There was no recourse. If anyone remembers the name of this island, please post it... I simply cannot remember and web search is useless for topics like this. UPDATE: cjm pointed out this this was the Republic of Minerva, it was not in the Asia-Pacific, it was north of NZ...

The sad fact is that most of these projects are started by and initially attract people who are just interested in doing illegal things they can't get away with in their home country. "No laws!" immediately attracts the worst-of-the-worst. A prison is also a place with no rules (when you really think about it) and the people who rule the roost there will always seize the dominant place in any such project, even if it is well-intentioned.

A more realistic alternative is seasteading. Because a seastead exists for some profitable purpose (it is a business, not a "government"), it's not just about "no rules, man!" or (what is the same) "our rules, man!" So the rule-sets that will tend to emerge will be like business policies in the important sense that business policies tend to converge on prevailing market practices. Most people expect to take a lunch break at work, and most employers provide this even if the government doesn't make them do it. So the concept behind seasteading is you have a market of competing seasteads and the policies that emerge will tend to converge on a rational set of rules/laws. In the terminology of economists, the current market in statutory laws is thin, meaning, "customers" (citizens) only have a tiny handful of choices to pick from. But if the market were thick, then we expect the producers of statutory laws (or business by-laws, just depends on how you think about it) to converge on customer (citizen) demands -- thick markets produce what customers want because customers have a lot of choices of where to buy from, so they don't have to put up with BS...

None of those projects were recognized as legitimate countries. So of course they were doomed to fail.

See step #2 in OP. This hasn't been done before.

[TheTexan]

A nation can only be bought with blood. You can't really avoid the cost and when the check comes everyone always seems to have forgotten their wallet.

That's an interesting hypothesis but it hasn't really been tested.

Depending on whether you believe Israel bought their land or stole it, it also can serve as a counter example.

I'm not aware of any time in history where this idea has been tried and failed.

[TheTexan]

You just want US to have another country to bomb, don't ya?

Isn't that the modern definition of sovereignty? You ain't a country unless the US has bombed you at least once.

[TheTexan]

I've already bought my piece of a country and others are trying to steal it.

Ya, you aren't ever getting your freedom back upon that parcel of land.

Our ancestors knew it as well. It's why they chose to spend 66 days cramped on a boat with a high chance of drowning in the middle of the Atlantic. They did this because they knew their home was destined to be ruled by tyrants.

Good luck defending your claim.

[TheTexan]

Sounds simple enough, how did we not come up with it before ?

I'm assuming this is sarcasm, but the critical difference in this idea is that it includes legitimacy in the purchase price.

I'm not aware of any other project that has attempted to do so.

[TheTexan]

Countries have sold land before. Why not to a new country?

Show me one example where this has been tried.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...vereign_nation

[TheTexan]

This idea has been tried before.

Liechtenstein was created this way, when the Liechtenstein family bought it from the Holy Roman Emperor in 1699.

They seem to be doing OK.

[osan]

I seriously doubt there is any nation on the planet that would cede territory for any reason, much less cash.

I would also point out that establishing a free land in a world as wholesale $#@!ed as this one would likely end in lots of fire and dead bodies.

Nice idea on paper, but I suspect making it real would be just this side of impossible for any of a host of reasons.

[osan]

This idea has been tried before.

Liechtenstein was created this way, when the Liechtenstein family bought it from the Holy Roman Emperor in 1699.

They seem to be doing OK.

Land is always central to control. Theye have no intention of ceding control to anyone for any reason.

[RJB]

A group of people will need nukes, the banks and trillions in disposable cash to buy their own country

The corporatarians/leftatarians will say will say because we are too stupid to have made that much money, we don't deserve one.

This country was paid for in blood. Blood >>>>(a hell of a lot more than)>>>>>Money! This is all we have. There is no, nor will there be another. As Ben Franklin said, "as long as you can keep it."

[oyarde]

Seems overly complicated . Assume it has inhabitants already . For instance lets say Illinois is for sale and I steal enough to buy it . Then you have to get rid of them. Trail of Tears to Kalifornia or Illinois Removal Act or whatever . You certainly dont want all those commies on yer new dude ranch. Seems like a lot of work and aggravation.

[TheTexan]

Seems overly complicated . Assume it has inhabitants already . For instance lets say Illinois is for sale and I steal enough to buy it . Then you have to get rid of them. Trail of Tears to Kalifornia or Illinois Removal Act or whatever . You certainly dont want all those commies on yer new dude ranch. Seems like a lot of work and aggravation.

There's plenty of places or islands with no inhabitants. Some countries may be willing to sell. Not every country has a $$ printing press.

[TheTexan]

A group of people will need nukes, the banks and trillions in disposable cash to buy their own country

The corporatarians/leftatarians will say will say because we are too stupid to have made that much money, we don't deserve one.

This country was paid for in blood. Blood >>>>(a hell of a lot more than)>>>>>Money! This is all we have. There is no, nor will there be another. As Ben Franklin said, "as long as you can keep it."

I don't think it would take nukes or trillions. Plenty of countries survive without nukes, through diplomacy.

This project would however likely take at least a billion.

[TheTexan]

Land is always central to control. Theye have no intention of ceding control to anyone for any reason.

Money is just as important to control. Some poor countries may be willing to take the exchange.

[TheTexan]

I would also point out that establishing a free land in a world as wholesale $#@!ed as this one would likely end in lots of fire and dead bodies.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But if that's true, the only hope for freedom is on mars, or more likely, some random asteroid in the far reaches of the galaxy.

[Danke]

I already got one.

[Snowball]

Ya, you aren't ever getting your freedom back upon that parcel of land.

Our ancestors knew it as well. It's why they chose to spend 66 days cramped on a boat with a high chance of drowning in the middle of the Atlantic. They did this because they knew their home was destined to be ruled by tyrants.

Good luck defending your claim.

The United States proved to be no less tyrannical than the European nations. There is only one thing which made the U.S. special......
it was a frontier surrounded by oceans. Other than that, it doesn't hold up so well on the tyrannical scale against Europe, or Canada or Australia.

Anyway, the last unclaimed piece of land on Earth, outside of Antarctica which is a special case, was Western Sahara. The U.S. and Israel
have decided recently (both Trump and Biden) to recognize Western Sahara as part of Morocco. That is an entirely selfish choice, because both
have cut deals with Morocco to exploit Africa. The Polisaro Front, however, (indigenous tribes), are still supported by a majority of nations.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=western+sa...&t=ffsb&ia=web

[oyarde]

I have already claimed Western Sahara . Since Dankes ancestors are Out Of Africa and he is part of my tribe now his homeland is ours also . Morocco has been notified of this treaty.

[TheTexan]

The United States proved to be no less tyrannical than the European nations. There is only one thing which made the U.S. special......
it was a frontier surrounded by oceans. Other than that, it doesn't hold up so well on the tyrannical scale against Europe, or Canada or Australia.

Anyway, the last unclaimed piece of land on Earth, outside of Antarctica which is a special case, was Western Sahara. The U.S. and Israel
have decided recently (both Trump and Biden) to recognize Western Sahara as part of Morocco. That is an entirely selfish choice, because both
have cut deals with Morocco to exploit Africa. The Polisaro Front, however, (indigenous tribes), are still supported by a majority of nations.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=western+sa...&t=ffsb&ia=web

Exactly right. There is no remaining unclaimed land/water on earth. Every square inch is accounted for. Which is why our ancestors' strategy of packing up and moving west will no longer work.

A new strategy is needed.

[Pauls' Revere]

You just want US to have another country to bomb, don't ya?

LOL I knew it.

[Pauls' Revere]

Countries have sold land before. Why not to a new country?

Show me one example where this has been tried.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...vereign_nation

The buyers and sellers were both sovereign states recognized by other nations. We would have to set that up first. I wrote to the UN about how to start a country. And guess what ... no reply.

[Pauls' Revere]

https://www.privateislandsonline.com...ilability=sale