The Orange Needler

[donnay]

He started by saying light was a disinfectant, then he book-ended it at the end by saying that he was referring to light as a disinfectant... then you incorrectly assumed that he switched to liquid disinfectants in the middle??

Even if we do assume that, which I believe is incorrect, there were threads posted on here about hydrogen peroxide nebulization long before Trump's statement.

Hydrogen Peroxide Inhalation Therapy - At-Home Treatment For Any Virus, Including Coronavirus
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ng-Coronavirus

As far as "injections", the light therapy is an injection of light into the trachea.

He doesn't understand that the ultra-violet light is a disinfectant device.

[Invisible Man]

This discussion reminds me of the ones where the Trumpers argue that Mexico really did pay for the wall.

[dannno]

This discussion reminds me of the ones where the Trumpers argue that Mexico really did pay for the wall.

You remind me of somebody who doesn't understand the concept of fungibility.

[TheCount]

This discussion reminds me of the ones where the Trumpers argue that Mexico really did pay for the wall.

You remind me of somebody who doesn't understand the concept of fungibility.

Right on cue.

[dannno]

Right on cue.

I have yet to meet somebody on the left who understands the concept of fungibility. They might be able to repeat the definition, but the concept goes over their head.

[TheCount]

I have yet to meet somebody on the left who understands the concept of fungibility. They might be able to repeat the definition, but the concept goes over their head.

You're adorable. Never change.

[Invisible Man]

If you want to say that fungibility means that no sources of income to the federal government can be tied to any specific spending, because money is fungible, then the fair conclusion from that would be that the amount of Mexico's contribution to paying for the wall is equal to the ratio of federal revenue coming from Mexico to federal revenue from all sources.

I don't know what that percent is. But tariffs account for 2% of federal revenue (they were 1% before Trump increased them). Imports from Mexico account for 14% of all imports to the USA. So we could reasonably estimate that the amount of the wall that was paid for by Mexico is about 0.3% of it, due to the fungibility of money. Digging into the details may result in a slightly different number than that, but that's in the ballpark.

And that's if we grant the dubious premise that those tariffs really are paid by Mexico and not American consumers.

[enhanced_deficit]

I see RPF's love affair with the Cheeto Charlatan continues just as hot and heavy as ever, even after he's once again revealed to be every bit the scoundrel many of us have always held that he was.

Just demonstrates once again the the truth of my contention that when true liberty does come to these united states, it will be in spite of, not because of any efforts by the so-called "liberty movement."

EM.

I dunno, many may have seen Netanyahu supporting top donor funded MAGA leader as a lesser evil compared to left-wing neocon lobbies funded puppets but there was probably always a minority of 'libetarians' here who can be even remotely in the 'hot n heavy' category.
Granted this is a small sample based on early returns but can give a rough idea.

Poll Results: Do you believe that most popular GOP leader was "complicit in the lying and the terrorizing"

No ......... 12.50%
Yes ........ 62.50%
Not sure .. 25.00%

[Swordsmyth]

Hydrogen peroxide was not mentioned at all in the press conference.

"Other Disinfectants"

Isopropyl alcohol is not meant to be used internally and is considered a poison.

See: https://www.healthline.com/health/is...alcohol#causes

Testing the power of alcohol to destroy the virus with cheap isopropyl alcohol before using more expensive food grade alcohol on patients makes sense.
I specifically didn't say isopropyl alcohol was commonly found in the human bloodstream, just alcohol.

It's funny that you vectored from @donnay's "Trump wasn't talking about anything but light" defense to "Trump was talking about hydrogen peroxide" (there's no evidence that he was and the talk he referenced didn't) and "Isopropyl alcohol is okay to inject because alcohol is found in the body." And before you say "I didn't say it is okay to inject" that's the only reasonable inference from what you did say.

See above, your use of strawmen is tiresome.

Yes. Exactly. NOT FOR INJECTION. A doctor gave a talk about things that kill the virus, ultraviolet light and surface disinfectants. Then Trump turned around and tried to talk about using BOTH ultraviolet light AND the disinfectants that the doctor were talking about using on surfaces internally. That was stupid.

Some disinfectants can be injected and UV is a disinfectant.
What Trump said wasn't stupid, the spin you and the MSM put on it is.

Stop vectoring. Calling facts "MSM lies" is another form of vectoring. You're no different from the liberals who cry "racism" all the time.

When you stop repeating them I will stop pointing them out.

I gave him credit for attempting to shut down the borders. That makes sense. Hydroxychloroquine is unproven one way or another. There have been studies that have shown that part of the reason for high death rates in Europe is because they were at first OVER using hydroxychloroquine and people were dying from it. So no. He doesn't "deserve credit" for that. Now if he had pushed vitamin C, vitamin D, melatonin, zinc, NAC etcetera, I would have given him credit for that. Did he? I don't know. I just see you and other Trumpkins talking about hydroxychloroquine.

ALL of the studies that went against hydroxychloroquine were biased and most of them were retracted for blatant flaws and lies.
You are repeating MSM propaganda again.

Trump didn't push other cures because when he pushed hydroxychloroquine they made up the kind of lies you cited and tried to outlaw its use.
If he had pushed other cures they would have done the same to them.

[Invisible Man]

I gave him credit for attempting to shut down the borders.

There's nothing creditworthy about that. That came at a huge cost to the economy with no positive impact to show for it. The virus was already here and uncontainable. Spreading through the population until it would infect whatever the number of people was that would need to get it in order for us to reach herd immunity was inevitable. Perhaps his border shutdown had the short-term effect of helping to flatten the curve when there was ostensibly a risk of hospitals getting overwhelmed by too many people getting infected to fast. But even if it did that, then the side effect of flattening the curve was to postpone the arrival of herd immunity and to prolong the ensuing shutdowns.

Edit: And even if it had been the case that the border closure happened before the virus was here, or when it was still containable, that still wouldn't have justified it, because then we'd be stuck keeping the borders closed indefinitely, knowing that as soon as they open back up, our entire population would be dry tinder waiting to be overwhelmed the second the virus got in. The only way it could make sense would be with the forgone conclusion that a vaccine was on the way and that this would buy us time until then, and be used as a club to compel people to get the vaccine so that they could get their freedoms back. And indeed, that's exactly what it turned out to be.

[donnay]

There's nothing creditworthy about that. That came at a huge cost to the economy with no positive impact to show for it. The virus was already here and uncontainable. Spreading through the population until it would infect whatever the number of people was that would need to get it in order for us to reach herd immunity was inevitable. Perhaps his border shutdown had the short-term effect of helping to flatten the curve when there was ostensibly a risk of hospitals getting overwhelmed by too many people getting infected to fast. But even if it did that, then the side effect of flattening the curve was to postpone the arrival of herd immunity and to prolong the ensuing shutdowns.

The borders were closed in 2017, the lockdown happen in 2020 for the so-called virus. Our economy was booming before the 2020 lockdown. You must suffer from selective memory.

[Invisible Man]

The borders were closed in 2017, the lockdown happen in 2020 for the so-called virus. Our economy was booming before the 2020 lockdown. You must suffer from selective memory.

I was referring to the 2020 border closure, and I'm sure jmdrake was too.

The 2020 one was unprecedented. What happened in 2017 was nothing like it and couldn't even be considered a border closure (in addition to the fact that COVID-19 wasn't around yet, so jmdrake wouldn't have had any reason to mention it). I'm not really sure what distinction you're trying to draw between a lockdown and a border closure.

[donnay]

I was referring to the 2020 border closure, and I'm sure jmdrake was too.

The 2020 one was unprecedented. What happened in 2017 was nothing like it and couldn't even be considered a border closure. I'm not really sure what distinction you're trying to draw between a lockdown and a border closure.

In March 2020, Trump placed a travel ban on flights from China and 26 European states--.exempting U.S. citizens and some others, but he did not shut down the borders completely.

Now Joe Biden is allowing anyone and everyone free access to come in to the U.S. without as much as a quarantine to roam the country and allows the lockdowns of U.S. citizens to continue and pushing vaccines and masks on all of us.

[PAF]

See above, your use of strawmen is tiresome.



Some disinfectants can be injected and UV is a disinfectant.
What Trump said wasn't stupid, the spin you and the MSM put on it is.



When you stop repeating them I will stop pointing them out.


Trump didn't push other cures because when he pushed hydroxychloroquine they made up the kind of lies you cited and tried to outlaw its use.
If he had pushed other cures they would have done the same to them.

Global Vaccine Summit 2020

The UK-hosted Global Vaccine Summit heralds a new era of global health collaboration as world leaders show overwhelming commitment to equitable immunisation coverage and global health security in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic. The virtual event raised US$ 8.8 billion from 32 donor governments and 12 foundations, corporations and organisations to immunise 300 million children and support the global fight against COVID-19.

Trump is NOT a physician.

The ONLY thing Trump should have said was "Government has no business whatsoever in healthcare; go seek your own personal private physician and seek recommendation from him/her".

Government has NO business in healthcare.

The ONLY thing Trump should have done was to VETO any/all bills which FUNDED Private Companies and Globalist Organizations.

Had the left wanted to pursue that anyway, Trump should have stood ground, reminded "republicans" that government has NO business in healthcare, and put the blame solely on the left.

Defending, making excuses, "interpreting", giving passes to that Gates-Sniffer Globalist NY LIB proves nothing other than you are complicate in furthering "nationalized medicine", FASCISM, something even Obama could not accomplish.

[Invisible Man]

In March 2020, Trump placed a travel ban on flights from China and 26 European states--.exempting U.S. citizens and some others, but he did not shut down the borders completely.

In addition to that, the State Dept. suspended routine visa issuance from embassies in most other countries. Which action came closer to shutting down the borders completely? That action in 2020 that you just described, or anything Trump did in 2017?

And note that nobody had said anything about a border closure being done "completely." Jmdrake referred to it as an attempt. Yes, the phrase "shutting down the borders" is an exaggeration of what he really did. But it was a draconian travel restriction nonetheless, and Trump himself referred to it as a "travel ban" and "closing the borders," and everybody should have known exactly what jmdrake was referring to without nitpicking the use of that phrase.

Now Joe Biden is allowing anyone and everyone free access to come in to the U.S. without as much as a quarantine to roam the country and allows the lockdowns of U.S. citizens to continue and pushing vaccines and masks on all of us.

Not according to this executive order of his:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...virus-disease/

[TheCount]

In addition to that, the State Dept. suspended routine visa issuance from embassies in most other countries. Which action came closer to shutting down the borders completely? That action in 2020 that you just described, or anything Trump did in 2017?

Come to your own conclusions as to how a 90-day suspension of visas for travelers from a handful of Muslim countries and a 120-day suspension of refugee admissions is somehow more of a border closure than a year-long ban on more than two dozen countries.

[oyarde]

This discussion reminds me of the ones where the Trumpers argue that Mexico really did pay for the wall.

Far as I know the only real wall is currently around DC

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I really have had it with the never Trumpers. He does something super bad pushing these vaccines and what do they do? They all line up to get the Trump vaccine.

[Ender]

SIGH...if you cannot understand what transpired above, I cannot explain anymore to you because, you simply did not understand what President Trump was saying, it was about Ultra violet light being a disinfectant.

I do not give him a pass for pressing "Operation Warped Speed." I am very angry about that, and I know why he did it, but it was a risky bluff, that he made to try and reopen the country, which the globalists set him up with so they could steal the election from us.

Sorry, but I'm not buying into that. As an anti-vaxer, that should have opened your eyes to what was really going on. And now he wants the vaccine to be named after him.

Writes Greg Privette:

Hi Lew,

Yet another example of how far Trump, like all politicians, slid from campaign rhetoric to actual deeds once in office. Remember he was going to create a commission to include RFK Jr. to look at the possibility of vaccine damage to children. Instead, while that commission never went anywhere we got Operation Warp Speed in its place.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/politica...id-19-vaccine/

[Invisible Man]

I do not give him a pass for pressing "Operation Warped Speed." I am very angry about that, and I know why he did it, but it was a risky bluff, that he made to try and reopen the country, which the globalists set him up with so they could steal the election from us.

You calling it a bluff is you giving him a pass.

It wasn't a bluff. If it was a bluff that would have involved him vetoing the CARES Act. He didn't veto it. He signed it.

[dannno]

If you want to say that fungibility means that no sources of income to the federal government can be tied to any specific spending, because money is fungible, then the fair conclusion from that would be that the amount of Mexico's contribution to paying for the wall is equal to the ratio of federal revenue coming from Mexico to federal revenue from all sources.

I don't know what that percent is. But tariffs account for 2% of federal revenue (they were 1% before Trump increased them). Imports from Mexico account for 14% of all imports to the USA. So we could reasonably estimate that the amount of the wall that was paid for by Mexico is about 0.3% of it, due to the fungibility of money. Digging into the details may result in a slightly different number than that, but that's in the ballpark.

And that's if we grant the dubious premise that those tariffs really are paid by Mexico and not American consumers.

They also put their military at the border in the meantime as a temporary stop-gap. That's even better than helping pay for the wall, because the effects are seen sooner while we build. Not sure what happened with that, they probably pulled out when Biden came in.

[jmdrake]

"Other Disinfectants"


Testing the power of alcohol to destroy the virus with cheap isopropyl alcohol before using more expensive food grade alcohol on patients makes sense.
I specifically didn't say isopropyl alcohol was commonly found in the human bloodstream, just alcohol.


See above, your use of strawmen is tiresome.



Some disinfectants can be injected and UV is a disinfectant.
What Trump said wasn't stupid, the spin you and the MSM put on it is.



When you stop repeating them I will stop pointing them out.



ALL of the studies that went against hydroxychloroquine were biased and most of them were retracted for blatant flaws and lies.
You are repeating MSM propaganda again.

Trump didn't push other cures because when he pushed hydroxychloroquine they made up the kind of lies you cited and tried to outlaw its use.
If he had pushed other cures they would have done the same to them.

Yaha yahda...bvllshyt. You and @donnay can't even get your Trump defense straight. And no. There has been no actual attempt to use any kind of alcohol as some sort of internal disinfectant for COVID-19. You just made that shyt up. Just like you made up the "Trump is floating red flag laws to protect the second amendment" bvllshyt.

[jmdrake]

There's nothing creditworthy about that.

It worked pretty good for Iceland.

[jmdrake]

In March 2020, Trump placed a travel ban on flights from China and 26 European states--.exempting U.S. citizens and some others, but he did not shut down the borders completely.

Now Joe Biden is allowing anyone and everyone free access to come in to the U.S. without as much as a quarantine to roam the country and allows the lockdowns of U.S. citizens to continue and pushing vaccines and masks on all of us.

You really have no credibility because you are the same as @Invisible Man. Both of you are vectoring. If you were honest you would give Trump credit where credit is due and blame where blame is due. Instead you use the phony "MSM talking points" vector. The MSM isn't always wrong. Like when they reported Trump's support for red flag laws.

[Invisible Man]

It worked pretty good for Iceland.

1. Worked to accomplish what though? Postponing the inevitable? You can't keep a whole country quarantined forever. Eventually, the virus will infect it, and it will spread until herd immunity is attained. And in the mean time, the quarantine not only stops the spread of that one virus across their borders, but other infectious diseases as well, weakening the population's immune system, and just setting them up for a future enhanced susceptibility to multiple illnesses sweeping through their land, like history has seen happen so many times to people groups who had been kept separate from others. Prior to last year, when an uninterrupted flood of pro-lockdown propaganda has been convincing people that this kind of response to pandemic is scientific, it was actually the scientific mainstream to oppose such measures.

2. Worked at what cost? Shutting down borders is no small thing. The travel restrictions Trump imposed came at an enormous economic cost. I haven't looked into what they did to Iceland's or New Zealand's economy, but it can't possibly have been good. All to get no real long term benefit.

3. To the extent that travel restrictions did accomplish anything in countries like Iceland and New Zealand, you really can't compare the situations in those two island countries with relatively low populations, who imposed those restrictions before the virus had an uncontainable presence there, with the USA which has so many more ways in, so many more international travelers (including its own citizens) to worry about, and in which the virus already had an uncontainable foothold from which it was bound to spread through the population before the travel restrictions were put in place.

[jmdrake]

1. Worked to accomplish what though? Postponing the inevitable? You can't keep a whole country quarantined forever. Eventually, the virus will infect it, and it will spread until herd immunity is attained. And in the mean time, the quarantine not only stops the spread of that one virus across their borders, but other infectious diseases as well, weakening the population's immune system, and just setting them up for a future enhanced susceptibility to multiple illnesses sweeping through their land, like history has seen happen so many times to people groups who had been kept separate from others. Prior to last year, when an uninterrupted flood of pro-lockdown propaganda has been convincing people that this kind of response to pandemic is scientific, it was actually the scientific mainstream to oppose such measures.

So far the data shows that it worked much better than what pretty much everyone else was doing, which was locking down the local economy by keeping global travel going. Please explain why you think that was a better idea? Global travel is not "natural." It was not a thing for most of human history. Name a global pandemic before the 20th century. And yeah, Sweded didn't lock down global travel or local travel. And they paid a price for it. They were better off than Italy, but didn't fair as well as the Nordic neighbors. Iceland has been an unqualified success story. Also now COVID-19 survival rates are MUCH better than they were early on in the pandemic. Doctors know better than to just through everybody on a ventilator. The most effective treatments are now well known. And while I don't trust this current round of vaccines, eventually through trial and error the safest vaccines will be well known. Iceland will be best positioned to benefit from everyone else's painful experiences.

2. Worked at what cost? Shutting down borders is no small thing. The travel restrictions Trump imposed came at an enormous economic cost. I haven't looked into what they did to Iceland's or New Zealand's economy, but it can't possibly have been good. All to get no real long term benefit.

Worked at a much better cost than the local lockdown approach. And people voluntarily quit traveling anyway once the pandemic hit their countries so that was bascially ZERO additional cost.

3. To the extent that travel restrictions did accomplish anything in countries like Iceland and New Zealand, you really can't compare the situations in those two island countries with relatively low populations, who imposed those restrictions before the virus had an uncontainable presence there, with the USA which has so many more ways in, so many more international travelers (including its own citizens) to worry about, and in which the virus already had an uncontainable foothold from which it was bound to spread through the population before the travel restrictions were put in place.

Ummm....yeah you can. The U.S. also has so many more resources than Iceland. And most international traverlers come through the air, especially travelers coming through the initial affected regions (Asia). More comprehensive travel restrictions would have made a helluva lot more sense than what we did, which is basically let Dr. Fauci "strongly encourage" all the governors to lock down their own people. Why do you think that was a better idea?

[enhanced_deficit]

This would be very under-handed tactic if Trump's twitter ban is lifted as part of such a plot:





When president, Donald Trump fast-tracked the development of a vaccine for COVID-19.

Take a bow, Donald, then tell your wary followers to get the ‘TRUMP’ vaccine | Opinion

By Steven P. Grossman

May 20, 2021

Reports are now appearing almost daily about people rejecting COVID-19 vaccines. The failure of substantial segments of the population to get vaccinated threatens the herd immunity that the medical professionals regard as the best way to stop the spread of the virus.

But there is an obvious solution.

...Trump can make special appeals to some of his special followers. The QAnon folks can be told that the government is engaged in a reverse conspiracy, something like: The Swamp dwellers in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Biden administration know that if they advocate for taking the vaccine, freedom-loving white folks will not take it, thus furthering the plan to replace them with people of color, including undocumented immigrants, when the freedom lovers die off. The best way to prevent this is to take the vaccine.

Should he be allowed back on Twitter, it is not so hard to imagine a series of tweets from @DonaldTrump such as: “TAKE THE VACCINE! The Big Lie purpatrated (sp) by fake news is that we don’t want to take it. The virus is real. I never called it a hoax.”

Or: “The way to stop the China Virus is by taking the TRUMP VACCINE!!!!”

miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article251563173.html