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Thread: Immigration, a public charge, and tax tyranny!

  1. #1

    Immigration, a public charge, and tax tyranny!

    .
    On January 25th, 2020, the United States Supreme Court upheld the Trump Administration’s “public charge” rule, allowing it to take effect. The rule, designed to protect American taxpayers from having to finance the economic needs of millions of immigrants flooding into the United States made it more difficult for them to acquire a green card and permanent residency should they use, or were found likely to use, taxpayer financed benefits such as food stamps, public housing and Medicaid, and thus becoming a “public charge”.


    And why not have such a rule? As far back as our colonial period, laws were enacted to prohibit the immigration of individuals who might become a public charge. One such law forbid ”… the admission of indigent migrants. This law was followed in the 18th century by other laws prohibiting the landing of “Sick, Lame, or Otherwise Infirm Persons,” and calling for bonds that were forfeited if immigrants of questionable means became public charges.” See: Public Charge Provisions of Immigration Law: A Brief Historical Background


    But now, instead of relying upon CHARITABLE GIVING, to assist foreign nationals who have flooded across our border, the Biden Administration has decided to rescind the “public charge” rule and use the force of federal taxation to directly tax American citizens, confiscate the property they have earned by the sweat of their labor, and redistribute that property for the economic needs of millions of foreign nationals who have flooded across the borders of the United States.


    In regard to the use of government power in this manner, one of our forefathers summarized such an act as tyranny!


    "Under a just and equal Government, every individual is entitled to protection in the enjoyment of the whole product of his labor, except such portion of it as is necessary to enable Government to protect the rest; this is given only in consideration of the protection offered. In every bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a regulation, the product of one man's labor is transferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The exercise of such a right on the part of Government can be justified on no other principle, than that the whole product of the labor or every individual is the real property of Government, and may be distributed among the several parts of the community by government discretion; such a supposition would directly involve the idea, that every individual in the community is merely a slave and bondsman to Government, who, although he may labor, is not to expect protection in the product of his labor. An authority given to any Government to exercise such a principle, would lead to a complete system of tyranny." See Representative Giles, speaking before Congress February 3rd, 1792


    As reported on March 11th, 2021, the Biden administration takes final step to end Trump-era 'public charge' rule


    "Today, DHS closed the book on the public charge rule and is doing the same with respect to a proposed rule regarding the affidavit of support that would have placed undue burdens on American families wishing to sponsor individuals lawfully immigrating to the U.S.," Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement.”


    Keep in mind as pointed out above, as far back as the 18th century there were laws on the books calling for bonds that were forfeited by sponsors “if immigrants of questionable means became public charges.”


    But now, under the Biden Socialist Revolutionary Administration, the United States can be flooded with the poverty stricken populations of other countries, and American taxpaying citizens made to surrender the property they have earned by the sweat of their labor to finance the economic needs of those flooding across our border.



    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, destroy and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.



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  3. #2

    14 States file suit to allow enforcement of "public charge" rule

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    SEE: 14 GOP-led states file long-shot bid with SCOTUS to defend Trump-era 'public charge' rule


    March 30, 2021


    “(CNN)Texas and 13 other Republican-led states have filed a long shot bid with the Supreme Court asking the justices to allow the states to defend a controversial Trump-era rule that makes it more difficult for immigrants to obtain legal status if they use certain public benefits, such as Medicaid, food stamps and housing vouchers.

    The so-called "public charge" rule is currently blocked while the Biden administration completes a review process and decides what the new regulation will be.

    Earlier this month, the Supreme Court agreed to dismiss a pending challenge to the rule at the request of the Biden administration because the government changed its position in the case after the election.”

    There is something drastically wrong in the United States when its federal government can use its taxing powers to confiscate the property of American citizens [a working person’s earned wages], and redistribute said revenue to finance the economic needs of millions of foreigners who have flooded across America’s borders, when the Constitution of the United States commands the federal government to “repel invasions”, and limits federal taxes raised to promote the “general welfare” of the United States and HER citizens.

    JWK


    The leadership which now controls the Democrat Party, want elderly American citizens, who were forced to pay into Medicare all their lives, to surrender and share their Medicare Trust fund with millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders. LINK

  4. #3

    Obama on immigration in 2005

    How many here remember when Obama said the following?

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    .



    JWK


    Joe Biden and Kamala Harris want elderly American citizens, who paid into Medicare all their lives, to surrender and share their Medicare Trust fund with millions of illegal entrants who have invaded America’s borders. LINK

  5. #4

    thousands of unaccompanied children equals millions of anchor babies

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    Who is going to be taxed to pay for the $BILLIONS in economic needs when the thousands upon thousands of unaccompanied teenaged females from poverty stricken Central America, which the Biden Administration is allowing to stay, start to have anchor-babies?

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    Look at what has been happening to our country for years and years:
    .






    JWK



    There is no better way to weaken, destroy and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  6. #5
    .
    So, who is going to be taxed to pay for the $BILLIONS in economic needs when the thousands upon thousands of unaccompanied teenaged females from poverty stricken Central America, which the Biden Administration is allowing to stay, start to have anchor-babies?
    .
    JWK
    .
    The Biden/Harris socialist healthcare plan will tax America’s productive citizens and our retired Senior citizens to provide healthcare to the 1.5 million DACA and 3.6 million Dreamers in our country ___LINK

  7. #6

    Texas still in the fight defending Clinton’s “public charge” rule

    See Texas AG defends ‘public charge’ rule on immigrants, public assistance dropped by Biden
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    April 4, 2021

    “It cost the country billions of dollars,” Paxton stated on “Sunday Morning Futures,” on Fox News, “If we’re going to invite people in, we’ve got to make sure they can take care of themselves and that they’re not going to end up on food stamps and Medicaid and health care insurance from our country.”

    Paxton explained that the “public charge” rule, put in place to set boundaries on public assistance for immigrants, was never official until the Clinton administration federally enforced it.”

    Why on earth would any rational thinking person object to a “public charge” rule, especially when such a rule dates back to America’s Colonial days?

    Is it not a common sense rule? To ignore the protection afforded by such a rule is to make the citizens of a country subservient and tax slaves to all those who flood across the country’s border

    JWK


    “If the Constitution was ratified under the belief, sedulously propagated on all sides that such protection was afforded, would it not now be a fraud upon the whole people to give a different construction to its powers?”_ Justice Story
    Last edited by johnwk; 04-08-2021 at 08:48 AM.

  8. #7

    Why is there no interest in discussing a public charge rule applied to immigration?

    .
    So why is the Democrat Party Leadership not discussing having a public charge rule in respect to immigration? It is total insanity, and turning American citizens into tax slaves, to tax American citizens to pay for the economic needs of millions of foreigners seeking to live in the United States.

    JWK

    When it comes to healthcare and helping the needy, our socialist Democrat Party Revolutionary Leadership has no moral compass whatsoever. They refuse to make the distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the health care needs of millions of illegal entrants and foreign aliens who have invaded America’s borders.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    .
    And why not have such a rule? As far back as our colonial period, laws were enacted to prohibit the immigration of individuals who might become a public charge. One such law forbid ”… the admission of indigent migrants. This law was followed in the 18th century by other laws prohibiting the landing of “Sick, Lame, or Otherwise Infirm Persons,” and calling for bonds that were forfeited if immigrants of questionable means became public charges.” See: Public Charge Provisions of Immigration Law: A Brief Historical Background
    Notice how the passive voice (i.e. "laws were enacted," "this law was followed by") is used to conceal the vital information here that up until the end of the 19th century, it was the individual states (and before them the individual colonies) that had these laws, not the federal government.

    If this was a power that the Constitution delegated to the federal government, why do you suppose that was?

    And why do you suppose the author of the OP chose to use such circumlocutions to avoid saying this fact?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Notice how the passive voice (i.e. "laws were enacted," "this law was followed by") is used to conceal the vital information here that up until the end of the 19th century, it was the individual states (and before them the individual colonies) that had these laws, not the federal government.

    If this was a power that the Constitution delegated to the federal government, why do you suppose that was?

    And why do you suppose the author of the OP chose to use such circumlocutions to avoid saying this fact?
    I have no idea what your post has to do with the legitimacy of having a "public charge" rule with regard to immigration. Please explain.


    JWK


    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    I have no idea what your post has to do with the legitimacy of having a "public charge" rule with regard to immigration. Please explain.
    The 10th Amendment of the Constitution prohibits the federal government from involving itself in such rules. It is up to the individual sovereign states to have them.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    The 10th Amendment of the Constitution prohibits the federal government from involving itself in such rules. It is up to the individual sovereign states to have them.
    What does your post have to do with the legitimacy of having a "public charge" rule with regard to immigration. Please explain.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.
    Last edited by johnwk; Yesterday at 08:29 AM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    What does your post have to do with the legitimacy of having a "public charge" rule with regard to immigration. Please explain.
    There you go again, avoiding the point. Notice how you say "having a 'public charge'" rule without specifying what government would have the rule.

    It's obvious what my post has to do with it, because my post directly addresses the question of what governments are and are not permitted by the Constitution to have such a rule. Constitutionally, it is legitimate for states to have a public charge rule, but it is not legitimate for the federal government to have one.

    The evidence you adduced in the OP actually supports my claim, in spite of the fact that you attempted to use that evidence in support of putting the responsibility of having a public charge rule at the federal level, rather than the states.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; Yesterday at 08:40 AM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    There you go again, avoiding the point. Notice how you say "having a 'public charge'" rule without specifying what government would have the rule.
    And there you go again, avoiding to acknowledge whether or not a "public charge" rule is a legitimate rule with regard to immigration. Instead, you deflect to what government would have the rule .

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    And there you go again, avoiding to acknowledge whether or not a "public charge" rule is a legitimate rule with regard to immigration.
    The post you just quoted directly addresses that.

    Again, it is constitutionally legitimate for the states, but not for the federal government.

    That distinction is crucial to the whole issue, yet you insist on dancing around it.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk
    And there you go again, avoiding to acknowledge whether or not a "public charge" rule is a legitimate rule with regard to immigration.

    The post you just quoted directly addresses that.
    You made no comment with regard to the legitimacy of a "public charge" rule being applied to immigration. Who enforces such a rule ___ Congress, the various individual states, or both ___ is a separate and distinct question.



    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    You made no comment with regard to the legitimacy of a "public charge" rule being applied to immigration.
    Every single post I've made in this thread includes comments with regard to the legitimacy of a public charge rule.

    Two of them prior to this one even explicitly state when they are "legitimate" and "not legitimate" (using those very words) and are direct replies to you commenting about me addressing the legitimacy of public charge rules.

    You are wrong about this being separate from the question of who enforces these rules, because the criterion of who enforces them decides whether or not they are legitimate. You can't just say they're generically legitimate, and then argue that because of that, they are legitimate for the the federal government, as you try to do in the OP.



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  20. #17
    It should be pretty obvious that the whole immigration "problem" is the government, not the immigrants. Get gov outta stuff like welfare/free stuff/unlawful taxation/etc. & let localities handle their own issues. Presto- no problema!
    Last edited by Ender; Yesterday at 09:33 AM.
    There is no spoon.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    It should be pretty obvious that they whole immigration "problem" is the government, not the immigrants. Get gov outta stuff like welfare/free stuff/unlawful taxation/etc. & let localities handle their own issues. Presto- no problema!
    Great point.

    Nobody, no matter where they're born, should be a public charge. That is the basic problem here, and it has nothing to do with immigration policy. In fact, it seems to me that making public charge immigration rules is a way to preserve the welfare state, when we shouldn't want to preserve it. Statists love to say, "You can't have both open borders and a welfare state." Well, if that's true, then it's a big point in favor of having open borders.

    That 1792 quote from Giles in the OP is spot on. And it actually completely undermines the main point the OP is trying to make by tying this to immigration policy.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk
    You made no comment with regard to the legitimacy of a "public charge" rule being applied to immigration.
    Every single post I've made in this thread includes comments with regard to the legitimacy of a public charge rule.

    Your comments do not verify the legitimacy of a public charge rule being applied to immigration. You constantly deflect to who may enforce such a rule.



    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Your comments do not verify the legitimacy of a public charge rule being applied to immigration.
    Earlier you said I didn't comment on it at all. Now you're saying that I didn't "verify" it. I can't tell what you expect from me to verify anything. Is there something I said that you need verification for? And does this mean that you now acknowledge that I did comment on it?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk
    Your comments do not verify the legitimacy of a public charge rule being applied to immigration.

    Earlier you said I didn't comment on it at all. Now you're saying that I didn't "verify" it. I can't tell what you expect from me to verify anything. Is there something I said that you need verification for? And does this mean that you now acknowledge that I did comment on it?

    Either one supports the legitimacy of a public charge rule with regard to immigration, or, one does not. This is not a complicated question.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Either one supports the legitimacy of a public charge rule with regard to immigration, or, one does not. This is not a complicated question.
    Oh. So you're not in favor of it being done constitutionally. I see.

    To others here, that matters.

    Notice how you could use that exact same line of argument for absolutely anything that is warranted for any level of government to do, and then argue that it needs to be done at the federal level. Absolutely every law and government service will get pushed upwards out of the states' hands and into the federal government because it is generically "legitimate."

    This is essentially what has been happening for the past 230 years in America. And it's why we now have such a gargantuan centralized federal government ruling over the states, with the state governments serving as extensions of that federal government.

    And by that same line of reasoning, if it really were valid, it would follow that pushing all of these "legitimate" laws and government services up to a single worldwide global government would be equally defensible.

    That may be where you are. But that's not where I am.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; Yesterday at 09:55 AM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk
    Either one supports the legitimacy of a public charge rule with regard to immigration, or, one does not. This is not a complicated question.
    Oh. So you're not in favor of it being done constitutionally. I see.

    To others here, that matters.



    I made no comments regarding your concern, but you insist on posting an adolescent personal attack.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    I made no comments regarding your concern
    That's clear.

    Despite this very concern being central to the issue that the whole thread is about, you conspicuously avoid addressing it, no matter how often it gets raised. Why is that?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    That's clear.

    Despite this very concern being central to the issue that the whole thread is about, you conspicuously avoid addressing it, no matter how often it gets raised. Why is that?


    What is clear is, you have no intention of discussing a public charge rule being applied to the thousands upon thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries flooding across the southerner border of the United States. Instead, you intentionally obfuscate and deflect to avoid discussing this threat.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    What is clear is, you have no intention of discussing a public charge rule being applied to the thousands upon thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries flooding across the southerner border of the United States. Instead, you intentionally obfuscate and deflect to avoid discussing this threat.
    It's weird that you say that, since I've made multiple posts in this thread trying to discuss that exact thing. And you just keep wanting to dance around the subject.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk
    What is clear is, you have no intention of discussing a public charge rule being applied to the thousands upon thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries flooding across the southerner border of the United States. Instead, you intentionally obfuscate and deflect to avoid discussing this threat.

    It's weird that you say that, since I've made multiple posts in this thread trying to discuss that exact thing. And you just keep wanting to dance around the subject.
    .



    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  32. #28

    the threat and consequences at our southern border gets worse as each day passes

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    See Border visit illustrates reality of migrant crisis in wrenching detail
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    April 11, 2021
    .
    "At night, parents with young children march through the brush after crossing the Rio Grande River in the pitch black. By day, unaccompanied kids arrive at shelters, in one instance 17 of 17 testing positive for COVID-19."

    Why on earth is the Biden Administration allowing this invasion to continue? There has to be an answer.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    .

    See Border visit illustrates reality of migrant crisis in wrenching detail
    .
    April 11, 2021
    .
    "At night, parents with young children march through the brush after crossing the Rio Grande River in the pitch black. By day, unaccompanied kids arrive at shelters, in one instance 17 of 17 testing positive for COVID-19."

    Why on earth is the Biden Administration allowing this invasion to continue? There has to be an answer.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.
    Ya mean that Covid test that is 99.9% wrong most of the time & the virus that no one can claim really exists?
    There is no spoon.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Ya mean that Covid test that is 99.9% wrong most of the time & the virus that no one can claim really exists?


    You never answered the question. Why on earth is the Biden Administration allowing this invasion to continue? There has to be an answer.

    JWK

    There is no better way to weaken, subdue and bring to its knees a prosperous and freedom loving country than by flooding it with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled and criminal populations of other countries.
    Last edited by johnwk; Today at 08:12 AM.

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