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Thread: Not sexually attracted to a trans-queeer? You may be charged with federal crimes.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No, it's stating that you can't discriminate against them because of their romantic or other relationships, or the lack thereof.

    Basically it's saying, from my understanding, that you have to accept their sexual identity to be the thing that they say it is whether or not they actually do that thing. So if they say that they're gay but they aren't in a relationship with another man, you couldn't discount their gayness.


    I can't imagine how this would come up in reality. It seems like the only thing this does is prevent people from evaluating the accuracy or correctness of a person's claimed sexuality or asexuality.
    What? No. It's not saying you have to accept somebody's gayness. I mean...I have no idea why somebody would not accept somebody's gayness. Well...yeah I can. I have had to explain to more than one friend/family member that he or she was not gay. Why? Because he or she told me over and over again about this person or that person of the opposite sex that he or she was attracted to. I had to explain to that person that, by definition, if you like people of both sexes you aren't gay, you're bi. Everyone that I explained that too ultimately thanked me for helping them see that. Apparently, especially in the lesbian community, there is a stigma about being bi (I don't get that) so some bi people are in denial about that.

    Okay, back to what the language actually means. You can't discriminate against someone under this bill for liking the same sex. You can't discriminate for not liking the same sex. You can't discriminate for liking the opposite sex. You can't discriminate for not liking the opposite sex. So, under this law, a gay bar could not discriminate against a heterosexual bartender. And that shouldn't be a shocker. The 1964 Civil Rights Act prevents a black owned bar from discriminating against white bartenders on the basis of race.
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  3. #32
    No wonder Danke is on the run . He has a long history of not tipping the trans Siam waitresses as much .
    Do something Danke



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Guess I'll just have to start describing myself as asexual.
    Perfect! You will be protected under the "lack thereof" clause.
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  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Let's be real now, is there any straight dude here that wouldn't bang this gorgeous beauty?
    ...
    This website can help you with your dating questions...

    Examine your own bias. If you're wondering if your date is trans, you might be harboring some negative stereotypes in your mind that are not based in reality or you don't want to be mixed up with a trans person. Moreover, your reaction to your date if they are trans, based on your misunderstanding and bias, can be devastating to someone who already faces societal rejection and abuse. If they are trans, they are no less of a person and they should be treated the same way.

    If you find yourself dealing with fear over finding out your date is trans, read How to Deal With Transphobia and How to Respect a Transgender Person. It may help you understand what they're going through and how they feel.
    ...
    https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-Your...is-Transgender
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    There is NO WAY someone can twist this to mean that if some gay person makes a sexual advance towards you and you turn him down that he can sue you. If so, then heterosexual males could walk into a lesbian bar, proposition all the women they found attractive, and have a reason to file a lawsuit afterwards.
    I'm going to thank you for your time, and sincerely express my appreciation for spelling it out, as someone with a legal background.

    My final comment on this, other than, wait and see, since it's pretty much assured of passage, is this:

    If I had dollar for every time somebody told me there is "NO WAY" some obscure law could not be twisted to mean something utterly different, I'd be kicking it with Popeye Bezos on the yacht.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes, that is the phrase that made me sit up and take notice.

    I still maintain that, with very little legal parsing or tortured logic, as the law is written, it could be taken to mean what I have said all along: a sexual advance from a hommosexual or trans-queeer that was declined, again, this is the key point, based simply on the fact that the advancee was, in fact, a weirdosexual and the subject of the advance was not, could be on the face of it, proof of criminal discrimination.

    I'm still trying to unpack that idea, and see if it has merit or is even possible.



    I have been, and that's what's got me wound up.

    It says discrimination includes "lack thereof (of sexual desire) on the basis of gender".

    I'm honestly not trying to argue for argument's sake, or being snarky or stubborn and I'm truly trying to understand what, if anything I'm missing.

    Because if I'm right, passage of this act will have monumental, disastrous impacts across all levels of society.

    Since it's almost a sure thing this will pass, please prove me wrong.
    If this law is not used by itself to force perversion on anyone it will be a step towards it.
    Eventually they will create a Socialized Sex system where the government ensures that everyone gets "their fair share" of sex nd everyone will be required to participate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
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  10. #38
    I will pay for the @TheTexan to date a trans,
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

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  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I will pay for the @TheTexan to date a trans,
    I wouldn't normally date a trans but I suppose I could make an exception for your mother.
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  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I wouldn't normally date a trans but I suppose I could make an exception for your mother.
    my mother died last year
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    my mother died last year
    I'm ok with that.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #42
    she is now just ashes, otherwise I'd pay to see you do necrophilia on a trans
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    she is now just ashes, otherwise I'd pay to see you do necrophilia on a trans
    TheTexan is ok with her being ashes too.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    she is now just ashes, otherwise I'd pay to see you do necrophilia on a trans
    I didn't know you were into that kind of thing. We should grab a beer some time.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    What? No. It's not saying you have to accept somebody's gayness.
    Can't discriminate based upon "actual or perceived attraction." By my reading that has a couple of effects. One would be that a business couldn't decide on its own whether or not a person is "actually gay." That's what I mean by accept. Not socially or morally or whatever, but legally.


    You couldn't say "oh well I'm not discriminating against them because they are gay, because they're not actually gay, which I determined based on the fact that they are not currently married to another man."


    There's also the opposite effect, which would be if a person were perceived to be gay when they aren't actually, and are discriminated against for the perceived attraction regardless of their actual attraction.


    In both cases the purpose seems to be that they are eliminating possible defenses against discrimination lawsuits which would either "oh, he isn't actually gay" and/or "well, I only thought he was gay." In both cases it prevents courts from having to determine whether a person is or is not actually gay.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay, back to what the language actually means. You can't discriminate against someone under this bill for liking the same sex. You can't discriminate for not liking the same sex. You can't discriminate for liking the opposite sex. You can't discriminate for not liking the opposite sex. So, under this law, a gay bar could not discriminate against a heterosexual bartender. And that shouldn't be a shocker. The 1964 Civil Rights Act prevents a black owned bar from discriminating against white bartenders on the basis of race.
    It's broader than that.
    Last edited by TheCount; 02-26-2021 at 05:02 PM.
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  19. #46
    The Count is gay, who'd have thought ?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I didn't know you were into that kind of thing. We should grab a beer some time.

    Sure, only if your gun is unloaded.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Can't discriminate based upon "actual or perceived attraction." By my reading that has a couple of effects. One would be that a business couldn't decide on its own whether or not a person is "actually gay." That's what I mean by accept. Not socially or morally or whatever, but legally.


    You couldn't say "oh well I'm not discriminating against them because they are gay, because they're not actually gay, which I determined based on the fact that they are not currently married to another man."
    My brain hurts reading this.



    As I was explaining to @Anti Federalist, any interpretation of an amended Civil Rights Act is to look at how the current CRA is interpreted. It's not a thing of "Well I didn't discriminate against you for being black because I perceive you as being white even though you told me you were black." it's "I didn't discriminate against you for being black because I fired you for being repetitively tardy and that has nothing to do with you being black." Certainly if an employee is in the closet and there's no evidence that he informed his boss that he was gay, then that would be a pretty solid defense against a CRA claim. But the has EVERYTHING to do with the REASON the employee was fired and not some twisted interpretation of what the language you are referencing. If I have a legitimate reason for firing you and I never give any indication that I fired you for anything other than that reason and I fire other people that don't fit your protected class for the same reason then I have a rock solid CRA defense. If, on the other hand, I only fire gay people, or black people, or women, or some other protected class for that same reason, then I have a problem. Look at the other language in the definitions section of the act.

    14) LGBTQ people often face discrimination when seeking to rent or purchase housing, as well as in every other aspect of obtaining and maintaining housing. LGBTQ people in same-sex relationships are often discriminated against when two names associated with one gender appear on a housing application, and transgender people often encounter discrimination when credit checks or inquiries reveal a former name.

    ^That is what the "perceived" language is talking about. Two people could be best friends, or it could be a man and a woman with the feminine or masculine names. Think "The Boy Named Sue" song by Johnny Cash. (In college I knew a young man named Wanda that was dating a young lady named Wanda). Someone seeing such an application might perceive this was a gay couple when it wasn't.

    There's also the opposite effect, which would be if a person were perceived to be gay when they aren't actually, and are discriminated against for the perceived attraction regardless of their actual attraction.
    That is ONLY two scenarios contemplated by the bill are 1) a person thinks he's dealing with a gay person and discriminates against him because he's gay or 2) a person thinks he's dealing with a straight person and discriminates against him because he is straight. The "I'm going to pretend this gay person is straight even though he told me he is gay so I can discriminate against him" is NOT what the perception clause means. That's already covered by other language.

    In both cases the purpose seems to be that they are eliminating possible defenses against discrimination lawsuits which would either "oh, he isn't actually gay" and/or "well, I only thought he was gay." In both cases it prevents courts from having to determine whether a person is or is not actually gay.
    ^That is not the same as saying "You have to accept someone's gayness." In fact ^that is what I've been saying all along. Again, if you discriminate against someone because he's gay or because you think he's gay or because he's straight or because you think he's straight then, if your discrimination falls under the CRA, you are liable. Specifically this is what you said earlier that I disagree with.

    "So if they say that they're gay but they aren't in a relationship with another man, you couldn't discount their gayness."

    If someone says their gay and you fire him, you need to have some reason to that has nothing to do with him being gay. Whether or not you believe he is gay is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

    It's broader than that.
    That depends on the definition of "that."
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm going to thank you for your time, and sincerely express my appreciation for spelling it out, as someone with a legal background.

    My final comment on this, other than, wait and see, since it's pretty much assured of passage, is this:

    If I had dollar for every time somebody told me there is "NO WAY" some obscure law could not be twisted to mean something utterly different, I'd be kicking it with Popeye Bezos on the yacht.
    LOL. You're welcome and touche'! Here is my final response. I thought I laid out enough concerning stuff about the new law as it stands without going down the "A gay person can make you have sex with him" rabbit hole. It does concern me that religious affiliated institutions will have to deal with this. I've already seen it happen. When I first went to Vanderbilt there was a Christian Legal Society. I never joined but I had respect for them. They would offer to pray for you when exams were coming up, would have weekly worship services etc. My second year three women started the LGBT legal association. (Q hadn't yet arrived). I was cool with them too but didn't join them either for obvious reasons. ONE YEAR later I read in the paper that the Christian Legal Society lost its funding. Why? The fact that their bylaws required officers to have a personal faith in Jesus and lead worship services was considered "intolerant." (See: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...s-under-attack) Maybe that was just a coincidence. I dunno. But it seems the more "inclusive" our society becomes, the Christian views are being sidelined. I mean seriously there are so many flavors of Christianity, including Christian churches with gay pastors, that it's crazy that requirement that an officer be a believer is deemed "intolerant." Can I be over the chess club if I hate chess and never learned how to play it? And then there's the question of parents and children. We already have the James Younger case to deal with. How will this new law affect that? What about parents of "Q" children who take them to a conservative church where they hear fire and brimstone about the life they are considering? Yes the CRA doesn't directly affect that, but the Bob Jones University Case shows me how the law can be applied in ways it was never intended to be applied. So...just because I don't share one particular concern with you doesn't mean I don't have concerns.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    LOL. You're welcome and touche'! Here is my final response. I thought I laid out enough concerning stuff about the new law as it stands without going down the "A gay person can make you have sex with him" rabbit hole. It does concern me that religious affiliated institutions will have to deal with this. I've already seen it happen. When I first went to Vanderbilt there was a Christian Legal Society. I never joined but I had respect for them. They would offer to pray for you when exams were coming up, would have weekly worship services etc. My second year three women started the LGBT legal association. (Q hadn't yet arrived). I was cool with them too but didn't join them either for obvious reasons. ONE YEAR later I read in the paper that the Christian Legal Society lost its funding. Why? The fact that their bylaws required officers to have a personal faith in Jesus and lead worship services was considered "intolerant." (See: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...s-under-attack) Maybe that was just a coincidence. I dunno. But it seems the more "inclusive" our society becomes, the Christian views are being sidelined. I mean seriously there are so many flavors of Christianity, including Christian churches with gay pastors, that it's crazy that requirement that an officer be a believer is deemed "intolerant." Can I be over the chess club if I hate chess and never learned how to play it? And then there's the question of parents and children. We already have the James Younger case to deal with. How will this new law affect that? What about parents of "Q" children who take them to a conservative church where they hear fire and brimstone about the life they are considering? Yes the CRA doesn't directly affect that, but the Bob Jones University Case shows me how the law can be applied in ways it was never intended to be applied. So...just because I don't share one particular concern with you doesn't mean I don't have concerns.
    No doubt at all...there's no telling in what direction this will go.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  25. #51
    Since I'm already committing 3 felonies a day, I may as well make it four. Lol.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    The Count is gay, who'd have thought ?
    I wasn't aware that anyone doubted it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Since I'm already committing 3 felonies a day, I may as well make it four. Lol.

    reported
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    In my pre-Grunt days,, I closed an SAC Air force Base,,

    when 12 kids can take it,, it is time to close.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Since I'm already committing 3 felonies a day, I may as well make it four. Lol.
    Got 4 on record. I own the first 3.

    but they are Class A.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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