This is not about expressing their beliefs. It's about expressing things that they don't even believe. Things they know to be false, and yet publish anyway, with malicious intent to cause damages to someone.Originally Posted by DamianTV
Objection. You claim they know something they published is false. Irrelevant. The only relevant thing is whether they knew them to be false at the time of publication.
Objection. You have no way of gauging the maliciousness of their intent. Shouldn't councel be sworn in before giving testimony?
This last mistake you made is huge. Malicious intent only needs to be proven in a libel action if the speech was political in nature.
Last edited by acptulsa; 01-26-2021 at 12:35 PM.
If by "time of publication" you mean strictly the initial time of publication, then that's not the only relevant thing. If they didn't know they were false at that time, but learned they were later, then it matters what they did with that knowledge. If they continued to publish the articles containing those false claims on their website without any correction of them, as opposed to issuing a statement like the one in the OP, then they would be guilty of knowingly publishing those false claims at that point going forward even if it hadn't been done knowingly before that.
Nor have I ever claimed to have a way of gauging it or to know what it was.
Like I've said repeatedly already in this thread, I don't know what would have happened if American Thinker had chosen to stand by the statements that it claims it now knows to have been false, and been taken to court over them. It's very possible that the case would have been thrown out.
And the possibility that criticizing the private company engineering elections would not be considered political speech is enough to scare reasonable people into backing down quick.
And that short circuits the First, just as the government, through the CIA, creating Facebook and privatizing it short circuits the First.
The results from these things demonstrate why the First is so important.
Last edited by acptulsa; 01-26-2021 at 01:00 PM.
Do the people at The American Thinker believe that all of the accusations against Dominion were false? You never know.
There were quite a few different accusations, some outlandish, some basic and undeniable (such as features built into the software that allow “corrections”). No telling what the specifics are of this confession.
The first paragraph was definitely written by The American Thinker:
I’d wager that the rest was written by Dominion lawyers...We received a lengthy letter from Dominion's defamation lawyers explaining why they believe that their client has been the victim of defamatory statements. Having considered the full import of the letter, we have agreed to their request that we publish the following statement:
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
No bet. But I would wager it was published under duress.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brian4Liberty again.
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The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Far too often the difference between true and false is subjective.
It very much sounds like what you may be insinuating is that people should not have ANY RIGHT to speak, instead, make it a PERMISSION that is ONLY GRANTED if the individual will express statements that are in line with "official narrative". And THAT is DANGEROUS.
Guess what. I make mistakes. I own them. I learn from them. And I look at those "mistakes" as an "opportunity to learn". Thus, if I am not making mistakes at something, then I am not trying. The current narrative does not allow for ANYONE to make a mistake, or to change their minds. Also HIGHLY DANGEROUS and ONE SIDED NARRATIVE.
Guess what else. I express beliefs that I DO NOT AGREE with quite frequently. Its not necessarily about ONLY BEING PERMITTED to express things that "I agree with" because what I am trying to do is express a train of thought and how I arrive at certain conclusions. And I dont think there is ANYTHING MALICIOUS about that. Nor do I think American Journals words are MALICIOUS by any reasonable interpretation.
Now, would you hold the same point of view if instead of it being American Journal it was a Petty Criminal and Known Liar? The "damage" is only done to themselves. So by all means I would allow them to continue expressing themselves as much as they want. Many people believe that everyone else does not challenge information that is presented to them. I said "cats are tasty", which implies that I have eaten a cat. I have not. Well thats a good expression of something I dont agree with. But more importantly I do not believe that everyone that reads that statement will accept it without challenge. Thats what idiots do. "I told that cop I did not eat no chocolate cake" while having a face covered in chocolate. Its childish, immature, and shows an inability to recognize that other people have intelligence enough challenge information.
So as far as being true or false, that is trying to objectify subjective statements. The more controversial any particular topic is, the more subjective it becomes.
Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Which is why truth is far too often subjective. I do believe American Journal, for the record, and do not believe they have made "False Claims". That phrase right there is objectifying subjective information, without proper examination. Why? Because I highly doubt ANYTHING that Dominion says because they are complicit in crime, and this is them covering their tracks.
Do you believe everything the government tells you? How about MSM?
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
No doubt about the duress part. The wording of that opening paragraph is open to interpretation.
And there was probably a confidential agreement involved too. The American Thinker would have been wise to come away with an iron-clad contract that no further legal actions would be taken.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
One other thing that needs to be pointed out is Correlation does NOT mean Causation.
Here is an example of how that can go wrong. Statistically crime is much higher in summer than winter. Also, ice cream sales are much higher in summer than winter. Thus, Ice Cream CAUSES Crime.
That is associating Correlation and Causation.
Same thing as a Correlation is being manufactured between Republican / Libertarian / Christian / Conservative and Terrorist. The two terms are not mutually exclusive.
The Title of the thread is using that Correlation as Causation. This is akin to using the number of people that believe that there is Election Fraud as evidence. They are pissed, I believe they do believe, but it is NOT evidence. With the Title of this thread, the Correlation is that American Journal withdrew their statement as evidence. It is not evidence, they simply redacted their statement because it was challenged, but does not mean that the statements were in fact "False". Period.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
I don't see how it could possibly sound like I'm insinuating that at all.
In this case we're not talking about any subjective evaluation of truth or falsehood. It is not a case where American Thinker says that the claims are true, while Dominion says they're false. Both sides now say they are false.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-26-2021 at 01:54 PM.
Did you mean to post this in some other thread?
Because there's nothing in the thread title of this thread that anybody could construe that way.
Are there any media outlets and politicians that believe the election had fraud, going to stand up to these lawsuits and stand their ground on what they believe or are they all going to retract their statements?
I'm all for whatever the truth is here. But, IMO, it's hard to know for sure if there isn't an investigation on potential fraud. If all the media outlets start retracting their claims, then does that mean Trump and company are guilty of lying and making false claims? If that's the case, then how can trust Trump? This situation is a big deal.
And one side doesn't even have a gun at their head.
You keep repeating that like no one has pointed that gun out to you.
Bull$#@!. "American Thinker Statement Retracting False Claims about Dominion"
The difference between False and Not False is subjective. The thread title is presented as Objective, as if it is Fact and Evidence.
I believe Trump WON the election. And I believe there IS massive election fraud.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
Newsmax folded like a cheap suit.
The thread title is objective fact. Did you read the statement itself, which I quoted in its entirety in the OP?
It's not me calling the statements false. It's American Thinker themselves calling them false in its own retraction. The thread title accurately describes what the statement American Thinker made says.
And even if you ignore that fact, there's still no way to make a lick of sense out of what you said about causation and correlation, as it applies to the title of this thread.
The title of this thread doesn't even touch on that.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-26-2021 at 02:05 PM.
OMG Dominion sues Rudy Giuliani therefore Giuliani MUST BE LYING!
Rudy Giuliani Sued by Dominion Voting Systems For Defamation
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...for-defamation
See? Since they are suing then there can not be ANY election fraud!
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
No. I don't see. Did Rudy admit that he made false statements?
American Thinker did, hence the title of this thread, which states that fact.
I won't be surprised if Giuliani eventually does make a similar admission, at which point I expect to have a thread here about it. Hopefully if that does happen, you won't object to that thread having a title that accurately describes whatever it is that Rudy says the way you're objecting to the title of this thread.
Again, did you actually read the statement in the OP? Everything you're saying makes it sound like you have no idea what it says.
Again BULL$#@!.
You can NOT use the phrasing of a Title as evidence that there is no election fraud.
-REP
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
What in the world are you talking about?
The thread title says nothing about whether or not there was election fraud, nor have I ever used it or anything else in this thread as evidence that there wasn't. The thread title accurately and objectively describes the statement that American Thinker made, which is quoted in its entirety in the OP, and nothing else. The question of whether or not any election fraud took place isn't even addressed.
Do you actually read whole sentences with comprehension? Or just read one word and then veer off into utterly unrelated conclusions about what you think whoever said them must have meant?
I'm still trying to figure out what conceivable objection you could have about this thread title, and even with the benefit of you trying to explain it to me, I still for the life of me can't tell whatever it is.
Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-26-2021 at 02:18 PM.
You just did.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
Yes there is, logically.
You are a dishonest liar. Misrepresenting anything anyone else says ..
in a word.. TROLLING
but WHY?
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
There you go again.
I just did what?
Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-26-2021 at 02:24 PM.
I'll bite. Logically, how is that possible?
If the statement in the OP is true, then statements it calls false must be false. If the statement it calls false are true, then the statement in the OP is false.
What third alternative is there where both the statement in the OP can be true, and the statements it calls false can also be true?
No truer words have been spoken.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
First your claim that ""Every one of us knows with 100% certainty"" is patently False..
Therefore You are a Liar..
and since You are a dishonest Poster, who lacks any credibility ,,,
What was your point?
and what kind of Pointless Butthurt are you trying to convey?
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Stating something that has not been determined in a COURT OF LAW as OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE. They would have originally made the statement because they BELIEVE the statement they made to be true, and were coerced into redaction.
It is NOT FACT.
Look, I believe that YOU believe Trump lost, and there is no election fraud. And you can believe that. You can even express those beliefs all you want. But now youre basically demanding that "False Claims" are Objective in their nature and we must change ourselves to suit your view of the world. You are twisting information to suit your narrative. That is called BIAS. And exactly WHY we have such a problem with MSM. Youre merely repeating what the MSM has said because you believe it. Fine if you believe it but it does not make it Objective or True.
The type of thinking down the road will lead you to want to pass laws to censor us, but it will backfire on you and you wont be given permission to speak either. If this was Twitter, everyone who has expressed doubt in you would already be banned and ONLY YOU would remain. Fortunately for all of us we have some great Moderators here, and they are not about to ban us. Kind of like the Fact Checkers ONLY "Fact Checking" those expressing Conservative views, but anyone on the Left gets a Free Pass. And for the record, "Fact Check" just means they googled something, which, again does NOT make it true.
I am not sure that you understand the difference between Objective and Subjective.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
I did not do that.
The thread title objectively and accurately states the fact that American Thinker issued the statement that it did, which you can read for yourself in the OP to see that the thread title objectively and accurately does that.
It is an OBJECTIVE FACT that American Thinker issued that statement.
It is an OBJECTIVE FACT that in that statement American Thinker claims that certain previous claims it had made about Dominion were false.
Here is a quote from the statement that American Thinker made, which again, you can read in the OP, and I invite you to please read it before making more claims about the thread title:
Those are the words of American Thinker about its own previously made claims. They aren't my words. They're American Thinker's own words calling those claims false.These statements are completely false and have no basis in fact.
It is an OBJECTIVE FACT that American Thinker issued the statement that included that sentence, and others, calling claims they had previously made "false."
Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-26-2021 at 02:36 PM.
and a very likely FACT that they LOST CREDIBILITY by doing so.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
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