Pick the 3-4 best states for Balkanization

[phill4paul]

Pick the best choice. Considerations to include shipping (i.e. Coastal), farmland, industrial complex, already prepared military bases and the N.G. loyal to the citizens, etc.

Which, where and why?

[Pauls' Revere]

Not necessarily in this order:

California: Basically, everything West of the San Andreas fault could be blue and the rest of it red. Ports, infrastructure, farmland.

Oregon: The SE corner/section, Klamath Falls & Medford could join Northern California or become Western Idaho. My guess is they would go into Idaho.

New York: Up State becomes Upper New York, while Manhattan Island becomes Manhattan State. ports and infrastructure farmland. Not sure if the politics would make it happen.

[69360]

It's not possible without forced relocations. The difference between red and blue states is usually 10%. You aren't going to get 40% of a state to leave.

[phill4paul]

Not necessarily in this order:

California: Basically, everything West of the San Andreas fault could be blue and the rest of it red. Ports, infrastructure, farmland.

Oregon: The SE corner/section, Klamath Falls & Medford could join Northern California or become Western Idaho. My guess is they would go into Idaho.

New York: Up State becomes Upper New York, while Manhattan Island becomes Manhattan State. ports and infrastructure farmland. Not sure if the politics would make it happen.

All totally separated by mileage.

[acptulsa]

Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, both Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Missouri. Don't bet against Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Louisiana, and/or Iowa. Don't bet against Illinois (if they're allowed to secede from Chicagoland), Indiana, Kentucky and/or Tennessee. And don't rule out other partials like downstate Illinois, such as downstate Minnesota, western Wisconsin, and Washington, Oregon and California east of the Cascades and Sierra Nevadas. On a less contiguous note, Alaska.

° Has nuke silos

° Has a little oil left (lots, when Alaska joins)

° Has ports

° Full of people who are already fed up

° Divides the east and west coasts, making it easier to defend against them

° Contains the home towns of a significant proportion of currently serving military personnel

° Feeds the world (food is power)

Oh, was I supposed to limit it to four states? Sorry. Can't. It's a bad plan, and I think most of the rest of those dominoes will not wait fall, but jump in instead.

[Anti Federalist]

Pick the best choice. Considerations to include shipping (i.e. Coastal), farmland, industrial complex, already prepared military bases and the N.G. loyal to the citizens, etc.

Which, where and why?

New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont.

Timeline of events:

Secession talk increases, which drives off wealthy neo-liberals, Marxists, Massholes and other assorted slime to various victim states further south.

Globalist power increases in Ottawa, forcing a number of "assimilation" measures onto French Quebec.

La Résistance gains ground resulting, finally, after many years, of Quebec Independence.

The Canadian Maritimes, already bitter at having so much taken from the by the Ottawa government, and now with massive land bridge between themselves and Ottawa begin the push to return to Dominion and English rule.

Nativist forces on the ground are able to push that effort into an independence move, which succeeds.

The governments of NH, ME and VT meet in secret with the newly established governments of the Atlantic States.

Realizing that this is future, and the only way for her people to survive, Northern New England breaks away from the DC government and allies itself with the Atlantic States of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador, becoming the Atlantic Alliance.

Ports, rich fishing grounds, ore, coal, oil and natural gas, timber, a well educated workforce, gorgeous scenery for tourism all combine to make a home by the sea worth defending.

I've even found the tune for the national anthem...just working on the words now.

[tommyrp12]

I'll disabuse myself from pretending there aren't 4 boarders and airspace to defend against international actors. Politics may have broken down, just end their careers. It's a lot simpler.

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

The sad truth is that even if you took the least desired land this country has to offer, they wouldn't want you to have it. It would be something like Gentrification of a Nation.

[Invisible Man]

On a less contiguous note, Alaska.

° Has nuke silos

The value of Alaska to the regime in Washington DC alone makes it a uniquely difficult state to remove from its rule. How much would it be worth to the powers that be to stop Alaska from seceding? It would be worth more than most other states.

War to some degree would be likely in almost any secession scenario. But for any secession to succeed, it would probably come down to a cost-benefit analysis on the part of DC where the trouble of keeping rule over these people who don't consent is costlier than just letting them go, not unlike what happened to Britain in the Revolutionary War. But with Alaska, it's not the submission of that state's tiny population that would matter, but the geography. It might even be worth killing off the entire state's population if necessary, just to retain control of that particular land.

[tod evans]

The value of Alaska to the regime in Washington DC alone makes it a uniquely difficult state to remove from its rule. How much would it be worth to the powers that be to stop Alaska from seceding? It would be worth more than most other states.

War to some degree would be likely in almost any secession scenario. But for any secession to succeed, it would probably come down to a cost-benefit analysis on the part of DC where the trouble of keeping rule over these people who don't consent is costlier than just letting them go, not unlike what happened to Britain in the Revolutionary War. But with Alaska, it's not the submission of that state's tiny population that would matter, but the geography. It might even be worth killing off the entire state's population if necessary, just to retain control of that particular land.

If/when lines are drawn Alaska is a long way from DC and the powerbrokers on the right coast.

The left coast powerbrokers exist primarily in the digital realm and they are surrounded by people in their own states who won't stand by their lunacy when push comes to shove.

At this point state boundaries are only relevant to people who want the existing system to continue unabated.

[Invisible Man]

If/when lines are drawn Alaska is a long way from DC and the powerbrokers on the right coast.

Which is what makes it so valuable to them. Those powerbrokers have a global agenda, not a local one.

[Todd]

You forgot Virginia. Only Richmond Virginia Beach Tidewater and DC outskirts are Blue. New Jersey and Northern dipwad transplants. The entire state is rural minus those areas. SW Virginia is completely forgotten land

[Invisible Man]

My guess is that if people really got serious about secession, and wanted to move somewhere to do it, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan would be one of the places where the calculation of how costly its loss would be to the feds and the State of Michigan versus how costly the fight to keep it could be (if enough people came together to pull it off) would be most favorable to success.

[acptulsa]

My guess is that if people really got serious about secession, and wanted to move somewhere to do it, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan would be one of the places where the calculation of how costly its loss would be to the feds and the State of Michigan versus how costly the fight to keep it could be (if enough people came together to pull it off) would be most favorable to success.

There's a lot to be said for picking a relatively small, defensible position. But there's also something to be said for making your enemy spread out over millions of acres.

In World War I Britain and Germany had the two most powerful navies in the world. Both were afraid of having parts of their huge battle fleets isolated and sunk "in detail" and both kept their battleships grouped en masse. As a result, they were useless, and surface and submersible torpedo boats ran rampant on the North Sea. A force en masse cannot be everywhere at once.

Give them a big territory to reconquer, and they have difficult--hopefully impossible--decisions to make.

[tod evans]

Which is what makes it so valuable to them. Those powerbrokers have a global agenda, not a local one.

Their global agenda goes straight to hell if they're unable to hold the union.

The cities have nothing the rural counties need to survive, whereas the cities won't make it 90 days without the active support of the rural counties.

[oyarde]

Best state of course is mine . Not sure we want anymore unwashed peasants coming here though . Next thing you know Danke would be down the road from me and not want to give me a key to his garage fridge .

[sparebulb]

The bottom 2/3's of Illinois would make for a fine state.

The city of St. Louis, MO and East St. Louis, Illinois could be united to form the Chicago Oblast.

Hopefully, with a crime fence around it.

[acptulsa]

The city of St. Louis, MO and East St. Louis, Illinois could be united to form the Chicago Oblast.

Hopefully, with a crime fence around it.

Please leave the western suburb Kirkwood outside that fence.

[CaptUSA]

What about some sort of Alliance of Rural Counties?

Think of it like this: When workers felt as though they had lost power and influence among the businesses that employed them, they unionized to form a collective power. Could it be possible to "unionize" the rural communities within states to gain influence? They could form voluntary cross-state alliances as well. At some point, if their desires are still not being considered, they could threaten to secede and form their own states. Upstate and Western NY could merge with Western PA and Eastern Ohio, for example.

It seems like something like this could start small, then escalate as necessary.

[acptulsa]

What about some sort of Alliance of Rural Counties?

To date, geography as always been too important. Maybe it still is. The way this large and diverse nation has hung together so far was by minimizing the federal and emphasizing the local. Now they want to strongarm everyone like Stalin. It can't last, but it can last long enough for them to drain off a bunch of our wealth.

Usually the type of thing you're talking about has taken the form of strikes. And since the cities are totally dependent on these rural people for food, there's muscle to flex in the boondocks.

[CaptUSA]

To date, geography as always been too important. Maybe it still is. The way this large and diverse nation has hung together so far was by minimizing the federal and emphasizing the local. Now they want to strongarm everyone like Stalin. It can't last, but it can last long enough for them to drain off a bunch of our wealth.

Usually the type of thing you're talking about has taken the form of strikes. And since the cities are totally dependent on these rural people for food, there's muscle to flex in the boondocks.

Yep. I'm good with strikes. And a proper alliance of rural counties would make alternative sources harder to come by.

[TheCount]

My guess is that if people really got serious about secession, and wanted to move somewhere to do it, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan would be one of the places where the calculation of how costly its loss would be to the feds and the State of Michigan versus how costly the fight to keep it could be (if enough people came together to pull it off) would be most favorable to success.

Government is the largest employer in the upper peninsula



The issue's much more complicated than a red/blue binary

[tod evans]

What about some sort of Alliance of Rural Counties?

Think of it like this: When workers felt as though they had lost power and influence among the businesses that employed them, they unionized to form a collective power. Could it be possible to "unionize" the rural communities within states to gain influence? They could form voluntary cross-state alliances as well. At some point, if their desires are still not being considered, they could threaten to secede and form their own states. Upstate and Western NY could merge with Western PA and Eastern Ohio, for example.

It seems like something like this could start small, then escalate as necessary.

Organized rural communities could undertake such mundane endeavors as power site line maintenance, rail and interstate bridge audits that could shut down bulk transportation for weeks at a time...

Farm equipment breaks, grain spoils etc.

Really it wouldn't take long to establish enough leverage to bring about better behavior....

But is better behavior enough? Watching the cities behaviors now that they think they're free and clear to propose and institute any off the wall edicts they please should make a person think about who he's feeding and why....

[tod evans]

Government is the largest employer in the upper peninsula

Government checks are issued to well over 50% of the population now, whether you choose to call them employees or leeches is your prerogative.

Many people who produce tangible goods are becoming fed up with the leeches antics and every day the antics get more brazen.

[Brian4Liberty]

The great divide is between urban and rural.

Your best bet is to go rural, and stay politically active in your town and county. Don't allow a city to grow in your county. Don't allow some pin headed local politician to take Federal money to build a city. Don't allow some city carpet bagger to come to your town or county and win political office. Beware developers who buy politicians. Beware developers that run for office. Beware developers.

[acptulsa]

Beware developers who buy politicians. Beware developers that run for office. Beware developers.

Great idea! Why didn't you think of it five years ago? We could have concentrated on nominating an opthalmologist.

Why bother? I'd prefer DeSantis

Oh. Never mind. Guess the name of the place fooled me.

[tod evans]

The great divide is between urban and rural.

Your best bet is to go rural, and stay politically active in your town and county. Don't allow a city to grow in your county. Don't allow some pin headed local politician to take Federal money to build a city. Don't allow some city carpet bagger to come to your town or county and win political office. Beware developers who buy politicians. Beware developers that run for office. Beware developers.

I can only speak for myself but all I want is for the city folk to leave me alone.

Stop waging war and expecting my kid to fight for you, stop telling me I must accept one belief or another, stop telling me I can't farm, fly, drive or sail unless I abide by your edicts, stop devaluing currency and stop mandating that my child must learn your ways..

If the city folks would mind their own business then maybe we could agree to defend the country together.

Right now I want no part of them and their ideas and actions and I will do my best to convince other country folk that we don't have to play their games. We can force them to play ours by not providing for them until they do leave us alone.

City life obviously causes some type of mental defect and that's okay so long as they don't try to infect everybody else with their issues. Best part is their mental defects can be cured by fresh air and hard work, all they have to do is leave the city and build, grow or make something other people need and within months their outlook changes...

[Brian4Liberty]

Great idea! Why didn't you think of it five years ago? We could have concentrated on nominating an opthalmologist.
...

I did. And I fully supported Rand over Trump.

[Brian4Liberty]

I can only speak for myself but all I want is for the city folk to leave me alone.

Stop waging war and expecting my kid to fight for you, stop telling me I must accept one belief or another, stop telling me I can't farm, fly, drive or sail unless I abide by your edicts, stop devaluing currency and stop mandating that my child must learn your ways..

If the city folks would mind their own business then maybe we could agree to defend the country together.

Right now I want no part of them and their ideas and actions and I will do my best to convince other country folk that we don't have to play their games. We can force them to play ours by not providing for them until they do leave us alone.

City life obviously causes some type of mental defect and that's okay so long as they don't try to infect everybody else with their issues. Best part is their mental defects can be cured by fresh air and hard work, all they have to do is leave the city and build, grow or make something other people need and within months their outlook changes...

Cities are like Medieval castle states. A small ruling class, with a variety of underlings; tradesmen, artists, serfs, peons, indentured servants, slaves, beggars, and bums, with feces in the streets. They all feel dependent upon that state.

[tod evans]

Cities are like Medieval castle states. A small ruling class, with a variety of underlings; tradesmen, artists, serfs, peons, indentured servants, slaves, beggars, and bums, with feces in the streets. They all feel dependent upon that state.

Let them be dependent on the state and let the state be dependent on rural communities to provide for it/them at their discression.

It's coming to the point that they're going to insist, at gunpoint, that rural folks tend to their need and bow to their dogma....

It won't end well.