For those of us on "The Right" the time has come for clear thinking.

[wizardwatson]

Modern society in this country is far beyond guns-n-ammo type of warfare. It's now almost exclusively an information war. Psyop after psyop after psyop after psyop. Perhaps AF is correct that reverting to guns-n-ammo warfare is the last resort, his words not mine, has some merit but not all options have been exhausted. And further, since the information war/psyop is the weapon of choice these days, guns-n-ammo actions only serve to further their goals. Look at what the information psyop arm (media) was able to spin the Capitol nothingburger into. See my sig. Why do you think that they're pushing the masks and distancing and closures of social establishments and curfews? To limit information exchange. Because it's an information war.

eta: Why the overt censorship by social media? Why the scads of articles targeted to average folks devoted to "How To Handle 'Conspiracy Theorists' In Your Family"? Because it's an information war. And, so far at least, exchange of information is not illegal, is generally not an act of war and does not violate any laws in place. Information exchange does, however, throw major obstacles to their goals. Offing some random Congresspeople doesn't change anything, offing stupid neighbors doesn't change anything. They are easily replaceable martyrs and objects to be used to further the information war. The real controllers are hidden and sit behind 10ft walls and layers of armed security. Information is the best weapon and you best believe they are using it to its maximum potential.

eta: and literally as I was writing that post, here comes Fauci back onto the teevee again to push his psyop. Information war is the warfare of the modern age.

Yes, which is why transparency is so important.

Truth and light is all we have.

Right now we're still at the masquerade ball, drinking our wine, watching the show, and playing at the idea of being activists to others who are wearing the mask of activist.

Some of you I know, 90% of you could all be the same person or organization.

[Occam's Banana]

Was the Election Stolen or is that a radical Conspiracy Theory?

It doesn't actually matter. [1]

But the belief that it matters arises from the (false) hope that someone is going to save us, and that we just have to elect them first.

The sooner we disabuse ourselves of that pernicious and debilitating notion, the better. To paraphrase Michael Malice: "I hope [people] are starting to see that the [Bill of Rights and elections] are red herrings of little use. [Things like t]echnology and gun proliferation are the answer, not the Constitution."



[1] However, the perception that the election was "stolen" (or was otherwise invalid) might be of some use, in so far as that perception serves to undermine trust in elections as a means of achieving significant and substantive change. But this is the case regardless of whether any perception of electoral invalidity is "true" or not. (And I put "true" in quotation marks here because one's determination of "truth" in such matters is contingent upon the narrative frame one adopts.)

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

There needs to be a true study of power in the mold of Machiavelli, Pareto, Mosca, Burnham, and Yarvin/Moldbug.

The fundamental problem with the right is that they're myopically focused on what power should look like, instead of what it does look like. The irony here is that it's true about pretty much the entirety of the right, from the most terminally online Q believer, who is sure that the white hats will spring the plan any time now, to the moderate constitutionalist who thinks all you have to do to understand the US is read the document.

There's a love of construction on the right, and in a sense that's inevitable. There is on the left too, but the actually effective leftists are willing to jettison what were closely held values when it's necessary. Their constructions have shown a remarkable antifragility and ability to morph within the pseudo-Darwinian selection pressures of discourse. The right's constructions haven't.

In the long run, what's happened over the past couple of months might be a good thing for the right. Difficult, tremendously so, even, but good. At least, eventually.

[jmdrake]

Not at you specifically, I am talking more of talking heads, pundits, politicians and the like. People that like to grift "our" people.

I'll tell you who I'm specifically thinking of: Alex Jones and people like him.

I've listened to and donated to and defended Jones for decades. For decades he has been couching his message in violent revolutionary rhetoric. This is fine by me, as I agree, there is a place for the violent revolution. But the very second, the instant there might have been an "insurrection", he goes into overdrive to distance himself from it, to cry peace peace and throw people under the bus, for only one reason: to maintain the status quo that he has built a comfortable living from, selling supplements, survival goodies and dick pills. He furthers the footprint of outright hustlers and insane people like Steve Pzkichenik (sp?) while firing and then publicly attacking the only credible "journalist" he had at his show, David Knight.

I direct this at people like Rush Limbaugh who has done the same thing for over thirty years, and when the idea of secession pops up on his show, which is the only way this can be solved peacefully, rather than open a discussion about it, clamps down and doubles down on peace and "work within the system".

For individuals like yourself, I'm not really directing this at you, especially those of deep faith or Amish and Quakers and so on.



In self defense law, to ascertain that someone is a deadly threat they must display three things:

1 - Intent

2 - Means

3 - Imminence

Without being flowery, I submit to a candid world that this government and it's agents have done/are doing/are displaying all three and more, against me and my fellow citizens.

We have, and have long been able and had the justification, to defend ourselves with whatever force is needed to protect ourselves.

We simply lack the will to do so.

And one main reason why, is because of the obfuscation, FUD and propaganda thrown up by the people I just mentioned, and many more like them.

Well I agree with you about Alex Jones but for the opposite reason I'm afraid. If you're going to gin people up about children locked in a basement you better be damn sure there is actually a basement. And sorry but an insurrection on behalf of a swamp creature like Trump isn't a valid insurrection. I was with, in spirit, the Michigan folks who confronted their governor and state legislature over the lockdowns. But I'm more bothered by Trump and Jones giving people false hope about January 6th thinking Pence somehow could/would make Trump re-elected president than I am them not actually insurrection on January 6th. Peaceful separation through secession? When has that happened? Peaceful separation is done on an individual level and individuals can come together and support each other. Should violence come to a community that has peacefully separated itself then that bridge has to be crossed when you get there. The Bundy folks got the feds to back down without first having their state legislature vote for secession or without some violent takeover of the U.S. capitol or any state capital. Local folks in local counties should strive to elect sheriffs that won't enforce unconstitutional and/or unreasonable state and federal mandates. There are real solutions that don't revolve dying or going to prison for someone that doesn't even have the guts to pardon Assange and Snowden.

[69360]

Was the Election Stolen or is that a radical Conspiracy Theory?

Conspiracy theory. I'm sure some minor fraud was committed by both sides like always, but nothing that would change the result.

[jmdrake]

You can blame Abraham Lincoln for the current situation. He created this predicament, where violence is likely the only outcome.

His actions created the popular opinion that secession is unlawful, immoral, and punishable by violent retribution. An opinion that is widely shared even today.

Most politicians are afraid of even uttering the word, for it is political suicide to bring up the subject.

(And FYI as a brief history lesson for anyone unfamiliar with the subject; The North did not invade the South to free the slaves. The North's primary reason to invade the South was to keep the South in the union. Yet their aggression is celebrated, and anyone who suggests the idea of secession is automatically labelled racist.)

The South seceded and attacked Union Forts to protect slavery but you are correct that the North didn't fight back to end slavery. As for the president that destroyed the idea of peaceful secession, why that would be Lincoln's fellow Southerner and slave holder Andrew Jackson. He threatened to hang secessionists as traitors including his own vice president John C. Calhoun. Of course the only state serious about secession then was South Carolina. And the "nullification crisis" ended without bloodshed. Nullification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secession. State don't like a federal mandate? Don't enforce it. People are angry at the liberal cities and states creating "sanctuary cities." Well conservative cities and states could do the same thing for other issues like protecting the 2nd amendment. What would happen in state governments quit enforcing all federal gun laws at any level? Say if the feds weren't allowed to temporarily house federal criminal defendants and/or convicts in state facilities? States should stop cooperating with federal drug enforcement as well.

[TheTexan]

Conspiracy theory. I'm sure some minor fraud was committed by both sides like always, but nothing that would change the result.

[Invisible Man]

It doesn't actually matter.

That is a very good point.

Instead of saying that the regime lacks legitimacy on account of not winning a fair election, we should say that it lacks legitimacy whether it won a fair election or not. Winning elections doesn't confer legitimacy on governments that exercise powers that never rightfully belonged to the voters themselves in the first place so as to be able to delegate them to those they elect.

[TheTexan]

Union Forts

"Union" Forts? I don't recall the Confederate States of America signing any diplomacy agreements with the United States that would provide the Union with that land title.

[Anti Federalist]

Well I agree with you about Alex Jones but for the opposite reason I'm afraid. If you're going to gin people up about children locked in a basement you better be damn sure there is actually a basement. And sorry but an insurrection on behalf of a swamp creature like Trump isn't a valid insurrection.

Ok, fine...I'm not at all convinced that it was all about Trump, but OK, I'm not going to push that aspect of it.

The point is this:

I was with, in spirit, the Michigan folks who confronted their governor and state legislature over the lockdowns.

Exactly and so was I. And IIRC Jones ran them into the dirt as well.

But I'm more bothered by Trump and Jones giving people false hope about January 6th thinking Pence somehow could/would make Trump re-elected president than I am them not actually insurrection on January 6th. Peaceful separation is done on an individual level and individuals can come together and support each other. Should violence come to a community that has peacefully separated itself then that bridge has to be crossed when you get there. The Bundy folks got the feds to back down without first having their state legislature vote for secession or without some violent takeover of the U.S. capitol or any state capital. Local folks in local counties should strive to elect sheriffs that won't enforce unconstitutional and/or unreasonable state and federal mandates. There are real solutions that don't revolve dying or going to prison for someone that doesn't even have the guts to pardon Assange and Snowden.

And that shows that it works.

The left has shown us over the last year that it works.

If some of these folks want to charge the ramparts for Trump, OK fine, at least they are charging.

Which is more than we can say either one of us have done. I'm not suggesting we do so either, but whatever it tales to motivate people, even if only marginally correct, is good enough for me at this point.

Peaceful separation through secession? When has that happened?

The Soviet states separated with almost no gunfire at all.

The Newfoundland and Labrador separated from England peacefully.

[phill4paul]

The only clear thinking is separation. Where, when and in which states? Balkanization. I think Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida would be a good take over/hold. Farm land, oil production, military base holdings. I dunno.

[Sonny Tufts]

"Union" Forts? I don't recall the Confederate States of America signing any diplomacy agreements with the United States that would provide the Union with that land title.

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fc...Sumter&f=false

[Pauls' Revere]

Hold on. Are you saying there is no secret billionaire?

He died.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/busin...ath/index.html

[69360]

The only clear thinking is separation. Where, when and in which states? Balkanization. I think Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida would be a good take over/hold. Farm land, oil production, military base holdings. I dunno.

Northern Virginia is solidly democratic. GA just went democratic. South Florida is democratic. Those are just some examples of why the US couldn't Balkanize.

[acptulsa]

The only clear thinking is separation. Where, when and in which states? Balkanization. I think Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida would be a good take over/hold. Farm land, oil production, military base holdings. I dunno.

Any secession plan that doesn't include flyover country, the Great Plains, the Breadbasket of the World, is a bad plan.

1. Food is power, and we feed the world.

2. If we don't secede with you, we'll secede on our own. We will tell Washington, D.C. to go to hell sooner or later.

Northern Virginia is solidly democratic. GA just went democratic. South Florida is democratic. Those are just some examples of why the US couldn't Balkanize.

Uh huh. Look between the Mississippi and the Cascades, and recalculate.

[Suzanimal]

I hear ya. I was wondering where you were going with that at first. There is some "pretense" though the pretense makes no sense. I listened the other day to CBS news "debunking" Q-Anon by saying there is no pedophile conspiracy in high levels of government. Hello? Dear memory hole? Jeffery Epstein was a real pedophile with a real island with real underage sex slaves on it visited by real powerful people. All of that is just reported in the open. But then Q-Anon went crazy train with trying to convince everyone that Jeffery Epstein's pal, Donald Trump, who bought the Miss Teen USA pageant and then bragged about being able to walk in on the minor girls getting dressed, was somehow the "savior" of sex slaves. Ummmm...that made no freaking sense!

I still listen to conspiracy theorists like James Corbett who don't carry Trump water. I did hold out faint hope that Trump would pardon Assange and Snowden. But.....nope. Kwame Kilpatrick, corrupt liberal disgraced former mayor of Detroit, got a pardon though.

So....nobody is going to save us. Got it. Agorism for the win! We all need to as individuals learn to live as best we can outside of the system and coordinate with others who share that belief system.

This^^^ x1000

[devil21]

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fc...Sumter&f=false

That could be accurate, however quoting a book printed in 1916 by the United States War Department, purporting to detail official acts of a southern state prior to the Civil War isn't very convincing. The Reconstruction period was used to extensively rewrite history in favor of the "victors", as is always done in the period following a war.

[TheTexan]

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fc...Sumter&f=false

And who owns the "federal government"? The people. The land in SC ceded back to the people when SC seceded.

Thought experiment: if every state simultaneously secedes from the US, how much property does the "federal government" own? The answer is zero, because the federal government doesn't own anything. Only people can own property.

When SC seceded, that included the forts. The "federal government" no longer had any legitimate claim to it.

If the other states felt financially wronged by this, they could sue SC for the balance of payment they believe they are owed.

What they didn't have the right to do, was squat on property that they no longer held any legitimate title to.

[TheTexan]

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fc...Sumter&f=false

Your book says that Fort Sumter was ceded in 1836 with the below condition:

"Provided, that all processes civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon any of the land so ceded, or structures to be erected upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated in law"

The South effectively gave them an eviction notice in 1861 and they had every right to do so based on this language alone.

[A Son of Liberty]

Any secession plan that doesn't include flyover country, the Great Plains, the Breadbasket of the World, is a bad plan.

1. Food is power, and we feed the world.

2. If we don't secede with you, we'll secede on our own. We will tell Washington, D.C. to go to hell sooner or later.



Uh huh. Look between the Mississippi and the Cascades, and recalculate.

I'm in Southwest PA and I'd love to stay here, but if I can't, WV is very nearby and would probably be a secessionist state.

[TheTexan]

The South seceded and attacked Union Forts to protect slavery but you are correct that the North didn't fight back to end slavery. As for the president that destroyed the idea of peaceful secession, why that would be Lincoln's fellow Southerner and slave holder Andrew Jackson. He threatened to hang secessionists as traitors including his own vice president John C. Calhoun. Of course the only state serious about secession then was South Carolina. And the "nullification crisis" ended without bloodshed. Nullification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secession. State don't like a federal mandate? Don't enforce it. People are angry at the liberal cities and states creating "sanctuary cities." Well conservative cities and states could do the same thing for other issues like protecting the 2nd amendment. What would happen in state governments quit enforcing all federal gun laws at any level? Say if the feds weren't allowed to temporarily house federal criminal defendants and/or convicts in state facilities? States should stop cooperating with federal drug enforcement as well.

Nullification is all good and dandy - to the extent that the Federal government allows it; you are still their slave.

Lasting freedom can only be found when its recognized that people have the natural right to peacefully separate.

Rights can only be attained through sovereignty. Any "rights" you have otherwise, are mere allowances granted by your masters.

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

It doesn't actually matter. [1]

But the belief that it matters arises from the (false) hope that someone is going to save us, and that we just have to elect them first.

The sooner we disabuse ourselves of that pernicious and debilitating notion, the better. To paraphrase Michael Malice: "I hope [people] are starting to see that the [Bill of Rights and elections] are red herrings of little use. [Things like t]echnology and gun proliferation are the answer, not the Constitution."



[1] However, the perception that the election was "stolen" (or was otherwise invalid) might be of some use, in so far as that perception serves to undermine trust in elections as a means of achieving significant and substantive change. But this is the case regardless of whether any perception of electoral invalidity is "true" or not. (And I put "true" in quotation marks here because one's determination of "truth" in such matters is contingent upon the narrative frame one adopts.)

I appreciate your well thought out response, the reasonse. If the Election was fair and square then maybe my CT meter needs calibrating. I agree that the response needs to be different than status quo. If the radical left believes the hogwash they are swallowing, how does anyone know if what they believe is reality? Trump was not the Savior or the enemy as much as Competition for the Lying Left and Right. If nothing else The Great Donald exposed the media.

[TheTexan]

While I appreciate your well thought out response, the reason I asked was because part of the OP was discussing not falling for Conspiracy Theories. If the Election was fair and square then maybe my CT meter needs calibrating. I agree that the response needs to be different than status quo. If the radical left believes the hogwash they are swallowing, how does anyone know if what they believe is reality? The enemy was not the enemy as much as Competition for the Lying Left. If nothing else The Great Donald exposed the media.

Unfortunately the only way to be sure about anything these days is to dig into the primary sources, and make up your own decision. Most people don't have time for that. In the case of the election irregularities, there are 100's of witness testimonies, official responses, court cases, that you would need to go through to have an informed opinion of what happened in each state.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Which is why the left was able to get away with their lies. What's the point in spending literal days of research to fact check something that 99.9% of the media tells you is some baseless conspiracy theory?

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

Unfortunately the only way to be sure about anything these days is to dig into the primary sources, and make up your own decision. Most people don't have time for that. In the case of the election irregularities, there are 100's of witness testimonies, official responses, court cases, that you would need to go through to have an informed opinion of what happened in each state.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Which is why the left was able to get away with their lies. What's the point in spending literal days of research to fact check something that 99.9% of the media tells you is some baseless conspiracy theory?

When the media is trying that hard to push a narrative it must be wrong = Stupid Conspiracy Theorist. Tower 7 falling into its own footprint seems like a demolition. George W Bush having a demolition team plant explosives in the Towers seems kinda Conspiracy Theorist Nonsense.

[TheTexan]

When the media is trying that hard to push a narrative it must be wrong = Stupid Conspiracy Theorist.

That's pretty much what pushed me to pay attention to something I ordinarily wouldn't care about. The fact that media was pushing the narrative so hard from the very beginning. It was clear they didn't spend even one nanosecond to even consider the claims.

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

That's pretty much what pushed me to pay attention to something I ordinarily wouldn't care about. The fact that media was pushing the narrative so hard from the very beginning. It was clear they didn't spend even one nanosecond to even consider the claims.

My wish is they will stop trying so hard to look out for my safety.

[Mike4Freedom]

I'm in Southwest PA and I'd love to stay here, but if I can't, WV is very nearby and would probably be a secessionist state.

A few acres of land in WV is still cheap. I was thinking of buying some in the woods as a plan B just in case. Perhaps putting a small trailer there as well with solar panels. I would need an outhouse though.

[Working Poor]

Elections don't matter that is for sure. I hope that people who support Trump will realize that he has turned his supporters into criminals. That is something they need to be concerned about.

[jmdrake]

Nullification is all good and dandy - to the extent that the Federal government allows it; you are still their slave.

Lasting freedom can only be found when its recognized that people have the natural right to peacefully separate.

Rights can only be attained through sovereignty. Any "rights" you have otherwise, are mere allowances granted by your masters.

When you "peacefully separate" into another government you are a slave to that new government. The southern states enslaved poor whites too by implementing a draft from which slave owners were exempt. The only people who were ever free were the pre colonial native Americans.

[belian78]

Nullification is all good and dandy - to the extent that the Federal government allows it; you are still their slave.

Lasting freedom can only be found when its recognized that people have the natural right to peacefully separate.

Rights can only be attained through sovereignty. Any "rights" you have otherwise, are mere allowances granted by your masters.

Woah man, I'm not sure I'm ready for this account to start making real and contributing posts! 0.0 LOL