View Poll Results: Is This The End Of The USA?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - The name may remain the same, but as a nation we are fundamentally dead

    22 84.62%
  • No - No big deal. We will get it back NEXT election.

    4 15.38%
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Thread: Is This The End Of The USA?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    No why? Did we suffer some problem resulting from too many people in other countries having jobs?
    Umm yeah, with off-shoring American jobs with draconian regulations--i.e.; coal, oil exploration and refineries, fishing, farming and manufacturing.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    In what sense do you see the Bill of Rights as unassailable and immutable, unless just a theoretical sense?

    Now the divine law of justice itself, on which the principles behind the Bill of Rights are based, is unassailable and immutable. But this would be so regardless of how the boundaries around tax jurisdictions are drawn on the globe. The Bill of Rights themselves, on the other hand, are manmade laws that are no less susceptible to manipulations of politicians and judges than manmade English laws were. And if anything, I would posit that the very concept of common law we inherited from our British pedigree has a better philosophical underpinning in the unassailable and immutable divine law of justice than the constitutional amendments that were written and ratified by politicians we call the Bill of Rights do.

    In fact I think British colonies often had a great deal of liberty and independence. Consider Hong Kong. I think the American colonies, especially given the culture of their population, had potential to be relatively free as well, had they remained colonies, perhaps more free than what they very rapidly degraded into after they had replaced that one tyrant 3,000 miles away for the 3,000 tyrants one mile away. The enlightenment ideas that are enshrined in the founding documents didn't depend on those documents for their strength or validity.
    "None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes."
    -Johann von Goethe
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Umm yeah, with off-shoring American jobs with draconian regulations--i.e.; coal, oil exploration and refineries, fishing, farming and manufacturing.
    It seems to me that the regulations you mention are the real problem, and not the doing of that work by others. If regulations in the USA make it harder and more expensive for that work to be done here, then isn't it a good thing when it still gets done more easily and cheaply elsewhere?

    But I'm still not sure you're talking about something real. You were ostensibly answering my question about us suffering a problem that resulted from too many people in other countries having jobs. But you didn't mention anything that supports the conclusion that we did.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    The US has been fundamentally dead as least since Lincoln and his Civil War.
    Exactly.

    Lincoln was the final seal on the Hamiltonian coup- the CONstitution- to take over the federation & create a strong central ruling government.

    The Anti-Federalists were right & the Federation was really the only true vestige of freedom that happened to the colonies.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It seems to me that the regulations you mention are the real problem, and not the doing of that work by others.
    Yep.
    There is no spoon.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    has no effect on me but i'm not looking for a job . High unemployment , slow growth though are no bonus for citizens or tax revenues to apply against the growing debt . The actual decline will be good for my businesses probably but you never know . As long as I can pay my property taxes I'm good and if not i have plenty of ammo. I'm not expecting anyone to bother me .
    The trouble is that your property, your Private Property will be decreed "racist" somehow, and taken to be given freely to Invisible Man, fully at your expense. Including your ammo. Since he obviously supports Leftist Ideologies, he is "entitled" to EVERYTHING you own, including your LIFE.

    If you expect them to not bother you, you might get your wish. Going along with the idea they "leave you alone" by avoiding direct conflict, they will attack you in other means. Revoke your business license. Prohibit you from working. Prohibit you from buying food, travel, or even paying bills. They will lock you in your home and "leave you alone" and prohibit you have any meaningful interaction with anyone else ever again.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    The trouble is that your property, your Private Property will be decreed "racist" somehow, and taken to be given freely to Invisible Man, fully at your expense. Including your ammo. Since he obviously supports Leftist Ideologies, he is "entitled" to EVERYTHING you own, including your LIFE.
    As far as I know, there are zero leftist policies I support. Can you find any quotes from me that you think indicate support for any?

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It seems to me that the regulations you mention are the real problem, and not the doing of that work by others. If regulations in the USA make it harder and more expensive for that work to be done here, then isn't it a good thing when it still gets done more easily and cheaply elsewhere?

    But I'm still not sure you're talking about something real. You were ostensibly answering my question about us suffering a problem that resulted from too many people in other countries having jobs. But you didn't mention anything that supports the conclusion that we did.
    Take China for instance; they do not have to follow any rules about pollution and or inhumane slave labor. Do find it okay, to allow China to get the jobs that Americans were doing because they do not have to follow the rules that the global elites demand we have?

    Were you not paying attention to what happen when this insidious Covid-19 hit this country and China was the biggest manufacturer of PPE's? They told President Trump if he continues to blame China for the virus they would stop sending PPE to us.

    If we had a level playing field it would be great, but we don't. That is exactly what President Trump was trying to create. Of course the globalists don't want that because they do not want America to be independent, self-sufficient and self-reliant. They want to take out America because we are the last bastion of what resembles a free market.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Take China for instance; they do not have to follow any rules about pollution and or inhumane slave labor. Do find it okay, to allow China to get the jobs that Americans were doing because they do not have to follow the rules that the global elites demand we have?
    That's better than if they had the same regulations imposed on them. At least now there's somewhere we can go to escape them.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Were you not paying attention to what happen when this insidious Covid-19 hit this country and China was the biggest manufacturer of PPE's?
    I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    They told President Trump if he continues to blame China for the virus they would stop sending PPE to us.
    Then, if that happened, they'd be manufactured somewhere else to meet the demand. It would be more expensive. But being able to get them cheaply for a little while would be better than not at all, and having to settle for that more expensive option all along.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    If we had a level playing field it would be great, but we don't. That is exactly what President Trump was trying to create. Of course the globalists don't want that because they do not want America to be independent, self-sufficient and self-reliant. They want to take out America because we are the last bastion of what resembles a free market.
    It doesn't matter if we have a level playing field or not. Trump's trade war with China only hurt us. It didn't help us. The prospect of ending or lessening the impacts of that trade war after Trump's gone is a good thing, not bad.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    As far as I know, there are zero leftist policies I support. Can you find any quotes from me that you think indicate support for any?
    Let me try one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    ... more jobs overseas ...
    In your eyes this is a bad thing?
    In response to the question quoted, more jobs overseas is bad when they are YOUR jobs, and / or Slave Labor. Not all overseas jobs are bad. Not all are good either.

    Its just the way you come across sounds a LOT like ZippyJuan, and he is Permabanned.

    Lets see, since my opinion is not fully established on you. How do you feel about Fiat Currency? Does the USA operate and maintain an Honest Money System? Is interest on Fiat Currency fair or honest? Is there any issue with unlimited currency printing? Please be relatively specific...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Let me try one...



    In response to the question quoted, more jobs overseas is bad when they are YOUR jobs, and / or Slave Labor. Not all overseas jobs are bad. Not all are good either.

    Its just the way you come across sounds a LOT like ZippyJuan, and he is Permabanned.

    Lets see, since my opinion is not fully established on you. How do you feel about Fiat Currency? Does the USA operate and maintain an Honest Money System? Is interest on Fiat Currency fair or honest? Is there any issue with unlimited currency printing? Please be relatively specific...
    If you see anything leftist in my saying that, then you need a realignment.

    You sound like you advocate the economic policies of Elizabeth Warren.

    To answer your questions: I am against government regulation of currency. I advocate free market banking and currency. If currency that is not backed by a commodity can survive in a free market without legal tender laws or other regulations favoring it, then I see no reason to ban it. The USA does not operate and maintain an honest money system. The question of whether or not interest on fiat currency is fair or honest is a function of whether or not people voluntarily enter contracts with each other to borrow and lend fiat currency with interest, and do so without defrauding one another. Unlimited currency printing devalues the currency.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-19-2021 at 11:47 AM.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    That's better than if they had the same regulations imposed on them. At least now there's somewhere we can go to escape them.
    The regulations imposed to the Chinese people are far worse--inhumane and barbaric. I do not support cheap Chinese goods that are produced that way.



    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I fail to see how that's a bad thing.
    Hmm...you failed to see that people can stop producing things because they do not like the truth to come out?



    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Then, if that happened, they'd be manufactured somewhere else to meet the demand. It would be more expensive. But being able to get them cheaply for a little while would be better than not at all, and having to settle for that more expensive option all along.
    Yes, President Trump got the job done.



    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It doesn't matter if we have a level playing field or not. Trump's trade war with China only hurt us. It didn't help us. The prospect of ending or lessening the impacts of that trade war after Trump's gone is a good thing, not bad.
    So you think American's should pay more in trade than other countries? America has been taken advantage of for far too long. President Trump corrected that.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    The regulations imposed to the Chinese people are far worse--inhumane and barbaric. I do not support cheap Chinese goods that are produced that way.
    By all means, refrain from buying them then. And if you can convince other consumers to join you in that without government involvement, then more power to you. But there's no question that their availability is a boon to our economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    So you think American's should pay more in trade than other countries?
    If American consumers choose to do that, then yes, of course. Their ability to buy more dollars' worth of goods from the people of other countries than what they sell to them should not be interfered with by the government. Any attempt by the government to regulate that can only harm us.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if you are deliberately obtuse, or simply have Asperger's Syndrome.
    LOL he's trying to make you think. It'd be nice if you followed his lead but I guess it's easier to label someone as "obtuse" or "Asperger's Syndrome".
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

  18. #45
    It's amazing to see how many think they're not in The Matrix, yet totally believe all it tells them.

    Government has NO business being in BUSINESS- and especially telling any American- or other countries- what they can or cannot do. REAL capitalism works beautifully. Falling for crony "capitalism" seems to be todays norm.

    There is no spoon.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It seems to me that the regulations you mention are the real problem, and not the doing of that work by others. If regulations in the USA make it harder and more expensive for that work to be done here, then isn't it a good thing when it still gets done more easily and cheaply elsewhere?

    But I'm still not sure you're talking about something real. You were ostensibly answering my question about us suffering a problem that resulted from too many people in other countries having jobs. But you didn't mention anything that supports the conclusion that we did.
    .

    Again. The rest of the world can be happier than pigs in $#@!. I wish prosperity on everyone. You continue to infer from Oyarde's comment something that was not implied. Do you want others to be successful at the expense of your neighbors? Do you not realize WHY Trump was elected in the first place?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Neocon View Post
    LOL he's trying to make you think. It'd be nice if you followed his lead but I guess it's easier to label someone as "obtuse" or "Asperger's Syndrome".
    The poster in question has a history of straining at gnats in his comments.
    Or am I being obtuse?
    Care to explain what he means?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Its just the way you come across sounds a LOT like ZippyJuan, and he is Permabanned
    Close, but not quite.

    You're arguing with erowe, just another globalist leftarian.

    Disregard him.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    If you see anything leftist in my saying that, then you need a realignment.

    You sound like you advocate the economic policies of Elizabeth Warren.

    To answer your questions: I am against government regulation of currency. I advocate free market banking and currency. If currency that is not backed by a commodity can survive in a free market without legal tender laws or other regulations favoring it, then I see no reason to ban it. The USA does not operate and maintain an honest money system. The question of whether or not interest on fiat currency is fair or honest is a function of whether or not people voluntarily enter contracts with each other to borrow and lend fiat currency with interest, and do so without defrauding one another. Unlimited currency printing devalues the currency.
    Im not sure if I should ask this or not, as it may not be a good idea. I would like to see "better" posts that show your stance. Now, Im not sure if requesting "better" posts is really a good idea because I dont want people coming after you if your views arent inline with theirs.

    At this point, not sure if it matters...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Close, but not quite.

    You're arguing with erowe, just another globalist leftarian.

    Disregard him.
    He claimed to be a college professor. I guess with tenure a person can lose touch with the reality of struggling to feed a family and the importance of having a job.
    Last edited by RJB; 01-19-2021 at 12:44 PM.
    ...

  25. #51
    Biden's DHS Nominee Won't Say If Economic Improvement Is a Valid Asylum Claim

    https://cnsnews.com/article/national...d-asylum-claim

    That's a Yes.

    Millions will be admitted and receive free cash and free everything.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    I wish prosperity on everyone.
    That means you agree with me about the thing I said that you thought indicated I was either being intentionally obtuse or had Aspergers.

    I'm confident that what I inferred from oyarde's comment was precisely what he implied. I don't know why you think otherwise.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    That means you agree with me about the thing I said that you thought indicated I was either being intentionally obtuse or had Aspergers.
    You never made a claim.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    He claimed to be a college professor. I guess with tenure a person can lose touch with the reality of struggling to feed a family and the importance of having a job.
    He's an ideologue.
    I'm certain he'd have no problem with online college classes being outsourced to Vietnam (as long as someone succeeds).
    He'd probably refuse unemployment too, as that would be hypocritical.
    Good for him!
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    You never made a claim.
    Good point. I asked a rhetorical question.

    Oyarde was saying that he saw more jobs overseas as a bad thing. And I disagreed. You were initially flabbergasted that anyone could disagree with him about that. But then you came around to agree with me.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    By all means, refrain from buying them then. And if you can convince other consumers to join you in that without government involvement, then more power to you. But there's no question that their availability is a boon to our economy.
    With the saturation of Chinese made goods, one is hard pressed to buy American or even from other countries. Africa is another country where slave tactics are implemented by large corporations like DeBeers and Nestle. So Big Government and Big Corporations are certainly no even close to fair and equitable trade.

    For the most part, I buy local and stay local in my protest. So I do practice what I preach, and even make my own products from scratch as well. I am currently making castile soap right now.



    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    If American consumers choose to do that, then yes, of course. Their ability to buy more dollars' worth of goods from the people of other countries than what they sell to them should not be interfered with by the government. Any attempt by the government to regulate that can only harm us.
    I believe I answered this above in my summary.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Good point. I asked a rhetorical question.

    Oyarde was saying that he saw more jobs overseas as a bad thing. And I disagreed. You were initially flabbergasted that anyone could disagree with him about that. But then you came around to agree with me.
    My apologies.
    I asked if you were obtuse or on the spectrum.
    I was wrong.
    You're actually a 12 year old.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  33. #58
    We will get it back NEXT election.
    When did "we" ever have it in the first place?


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Im not sure if I should ask this or not, as it may not be a good idea. I would like to see "better" posts that show your stance. Now, Im not sure if requesting "better" posts is really a good idea because I dont want people coming after you if your views arent inline with theirs.

    At this point, not sure if it matters...

    I'm not sure what specifically you're asking for. If you have particular questions, like the ones you asked, I can take stabs at answering them, like I did those.

    More generally, for simplicity's sake my view on trade is the same as Ron Paul's as far as I can tell. And he's written and said a lot on the subject.

    Here's one apropos fairly recent article where he addresses the canard of whether or not a level playing field should make any difference.
    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...al-free-trade/

    Here's another where he directly criticizes Trump's trade wars.
    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ot-the-answer/

    For more in depth defenses and explanations of the same basic position, I'm certain that you can find a number of good articles at mises.org, fff.org, independent.org, aier.org, econlib.org, and other solid libertarian/free market websites that are committed to the same essential policy positions that this website is according to its official site mission. Those sites and the authors who contribute to them used to be highly respected sources here, before Breitbart, et al, took their place.

    Nothing I've said on this subject should appear at all strange here. In 2008 and 2012, the views I'm taking, at which you and others take umbrage, were pretty much taken for granted here. And it was those who differed who found themselves on the defensive.

    If it was the topic of free banking that you wanted a better explanation of, good information can be found at some of those same sites.

    Nobody has to agree with Ron Paul on everything. I get that. But when his views get ridiculed here as if they don't belong or are the ramblings of a troll, something is fishy.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-19-2021 at 02:23 PM.

  35. #60
    LOL...all you $#@!ers are racist devils and white supremacist terrorists, according to the US military and US government.

    In four years every one of us here will be on the lam, in jail, in a gulag, or dead.

    And you $#@!s are arguing with a globalist sock puppet over trade policy of nation that is dead.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

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