View Poll Results: Is This The End Of The USA?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - The name may remain the same, but as a nation we are fundamentally dead

    22 84.62%
  • No - No big deal. We will get it back NEXT election.

    4 15.38%
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Thread: Is This The End Of The USA?

  1. #1

    Is This The End Of The USA?

    Pretty simple question. Private poll, as not to cause conflict.

    I am just curious if people are aware of HOW SCREWED we are...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2
    The US has been fundamentally dead as least since Lincoln and his Civil War.

  4. #3
    Is it dead? I don't know. We are in trouble tho.

  5. #4
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "end of the USA". End of the USA as we tend to know it as being relatively free, or end of the USA as the dominant world force (and policeman and spreader of "democracy")? Or like.. the nation is going to dissolve and either split up or become a territory of a different one, or effectively act as one as it loses its autonomy?

    I definitely see us moving in the Chinese direction and following the Communist Chinese lead in many policy areas including education and state-regulated information and surveilling citizens and watching everything we do and prioritizing central business interests over peoples' rights. Do I think this will lead to the country collapsing? No. I see too much hate of freedom to the point where so many people will be happy slaves and certain initiatives will have high public approval. And our economy will continue to be among the strongest as well as other things.
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

    I do not suffer from Trump Rearrangement Syndrome. Sorry if that triggers you.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    The US has been fundamentally dead as least since Lincoln and his Civil War.
    Shay's and Whiskey's rebellions.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  7. #6
    The USA has been gone for a long time.

    But the American Empire still lives. And I expect it will live until the dollar no longer remains as the world's reserve currency. If the world ever seeks an alternate reserve, we are toast. And it will happen VERY fast! We are on incredibly shaky ground and the only reason it hasn't happened yet is because we have the military might to scare off potential defectors.

    For this reason, I expect the new administration to flex our military muscle. Doesn't really matter where, as long as it shows we are still dominant.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #7
    It ends every 4 years.

  9. #8
    I can only hope that Citizens rise up. Government is not about POTUS but everyone else. There is probably so much corruption and dirt that it needs a reset. It is time to offer Clemency to everyone in the government. Get out now with no repercussions. Judges, Senators, all legislators, lawyers, everyone. If you stay in office the dirt comes out and you are prosecuted.



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  11. #9
    Of course it's not. But a guy can wish.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Shay's and Whiskey's rebellions.
    I don't disagree.

    But then, given that you take it back that far, it seems to me that rather than pointing to those things as the end of the USA, it's really more accurate to say that they define what the USA always was from its beginning. The USA we have now is a continuation of the experiment of the American Empire and the rule of a federal regime over subjects without their consent that began with the ratification of the Constitution.

  13. #11
    Depends on one's answer to this question: What is the USA?

    To me, merely another modifying polity on the long and toilsome road towards that leads inexorable, none-the-less, to a more perfect human liberty. It does seem that very path has forked off, now, from the USA--and that the USA has no further direct improvements to make, rather will present a fertile source of examples for the next on how things can get off-path, and how, even, to avoid them.

    The when, how, what, and where of liberty's next ascension, I do not know. I do know that the decline and fall of the United States was predominantly achieved internally by sociological propaganda--from which fact the amorphous next should draw the salutary (and not unknown) conclusion that for a Republic to persist, it must be populated by a truly well-educated citizenry, and that credentialism is no substitute for education.

    Not to attempt to steal a thread, but perhaps others would offer explanations of their positions, as well as diagnoses as to what went wrong here in the US.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Depends on one's answer to this question: What is the USA?

    To me, merely another modifying polity on the long and toilsome road towards that leads inexorable, none-the-less, to a more perfect human liberty. It does seem that very path has forked off, now, from the USA--and that the USA has no further direct improvements to make, rather will present a fertile source of examples for the next on how things can get off-path, and how, even, to avoid them.

    The when, how, what, and where of liberty's next ascension, I do not know. I do know that the decline and fall of the United States was predominantly achieved internally by sociological propaganda--from which fact the amorphous next should draw the salutary (and not unknown) conclusion that for a Republic to persist, it must be populated by a truly well-educated citizenry, and that credentialism is no substitute for education.

    Not to attempt to steal a thread, but perhaps others would offer explanations of their positions, as well as diagnoses as to what went wrong here in the US.
    Was the creation of the USA really a step in the direction of more perfect human liberty? Or would remaining without a federal government subsequent to secession from Britain, or possibly even remaining as British colonies, have been better?

  15. #13
    Will it be the end of the US as you thought of it after four years of pelosi - schumer - harris - biden ? Probably . Too late to do much about it now . While you may wish for something different the majority does not .Take care of your own the best you can and prepare as you can for the worst .

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Will it be the end of the US as you thought of it after four years of pelosi - schumer - harris - biden ? Probably . Too late to do much about it now . While you may wish for something different the majority does not .Take care of your own the best you can and prepare as you can for the worst .
    Got any ideas on why whatever it is you think is going to happen didn't happen with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama-Biden?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Got any ideas on why whatever it is you think is going to happen didn't happen with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama-Biden?
    i expect it to be worse . i would expect the end of on line ammo and gun sales , more wars , more spending , more printing , more taxing , more debt , weakening dollar , more jobs overseas and stock market corrections.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    more jobs overseas
    In your eyes this is a bad thing?



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  20. #17
    has no effect on me but i'm not looking for a job . High unemployment , slow growth though are no bonus for citizens or tax revenues to apply against the growing debt . The actual decline will be good for my businesses probably but you never know . As long as I can pay my property taxes I'm good and if not i have plenty of ammo. I'm not expecting anyone to bother me .
    Last edited by oyarde; 01-19-2021 at 08:55 AM.

  21. #18
    The USA has been dead for a long time.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    In your eyes this is a bad thing?
    Sometimes I wonder if you are deliberately obtuse, or simply have Asperger's Syndrome.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if you are deliberately obtuse, or simply have Asperger's Syndrome.
    It's neither of those. Perhaps I'm obtuse, but not deliberately.

    Really though, is more jobs oversees somehow bad for anybody at all? Are there people somewhere who gain by other countries having high unemployment rates? Is the thinking here that there are only so many jobs to go around, so that if they have more jobs over there that leaves fewer jobs for us or something?

    If my thinking along these lines makes me obtuse, then every free market proponent, including Ron Paul, is obtuse too.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It's neither of those. Perhaps I'm obtuse, but not deliberately.

    Really though, is more jobs oversees somehow bad for anybody at all? Are there people somewhere who gain by other countries having high unemployment rates? Is the thinking here that there are only so many jobs to go around, so that if they have more jobs over there that leaves fewer jobs for us or something?

    If my thinking along these lines makes me obtuse, then every free market proponent, including Ron Paul, is obtuse too.
    Did you sleep all 8 years of Obama?
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It's neither of those. Perhaps I'm obtuse, but not deliberately.

    Really though, is more jobs oversees somehow bad for anybody at all? Are there people somewhere who gain by other countries having high unemployment rates? Is the thinking here that there are only so many jobs to go around, so that if they have more jobs over there that leaves fewer jobs for us or something?

    If my thinking along these lines makes me obtuse, then every free market proponent, including Ron Paul, is obtuse too.
    Yeah. Appeal to Ron Paul.

    If we actually had a "free market" here, then jobs would not be lost to overseas interests. No one gives a rat's ass about foreign unemployment.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Did you sleep all 8 years of Obama?
    No why? Did we suffer some problem resulting from too many people in other countries having jobs?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Yeah. Appeal to Ron Paul.

    If we actually had a "free market" here, then jobs would not be lost to overseas interests. No one gives a rat's ass about foreign unemployment.
    I don't pretend we have a free market here. I just advocate one. Do you?

    And if no one cares about foreign unemployment, then what is your point? That's the topic I asked about that you thought meant I was either obtuse or had Aspergers.

    Speaking for myself though, I do care at least a little about foreign unemployment. Generally speaking, when their economies are better off, it translates to benefits for ours. Don't you agree?
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-19-2021 at 09:51 AM.



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  29. #25

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Was the creation of the USA really a step in the direction of more perfect human liberty? Or would remaining without a federal government subsequent to secession from Britain, or possibly even remaining as British colonies, have been better?
    Yes. An unassailable and immutable bill of rights (American liberty--ostensible as it has proven to be) is none-the-less superior, if merely in aims, to rights that are granted exclusively from tradition and past concessions, as is the case with "English" liberty, that are admittedly mutable. The feasibility of secession is questionable without some level of federation. Did the realization of human liberty in, say, Zimbabwe improve by Rhodesia's status as a colony? South Africa? There is no reason to assume that it would have been any different here.

  31. #27
    No, it's not.

    But it is the end of "America First" movement that was funded by a globalist neoconservative who had been funding social liberal politicians for decades and sadly just passed away. "Netanyahu Republicans" for lack of better term will probably never again come back in power,
    A new era ahead for GOP, very likely it will revert back to "God, Family, Country" model. Recent "USA, USA, USA" chants by pro MAGA crowd (that entered the Capitol building few days ago and thus greatly angered MAGA leader) do mark end of a consequential era in US political history.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I don't pretend we have a free market here. I just advocate one. Do you?

    And if no one cares about foreign unemployment, then what is your point? That's the topic I asked about that you thought meant I was either obtuse or had Aspergers.

    Speaking for myself though, I do care at least a little about foreign unemployment. Generally speaking, when their economies are better off, it translates to benefits for ours. Don't you agree?
    "Socialism in one country." "Free market in one country."
    We've seen how a socialist country can scalp even a relatively free market. Seems that free markets, paradoxically, need to exclude the participation of socialist foreign governments.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Yes. An unassailable and immutable bill of rights (American liberty--ostensible as it has proven to be) is none-the-less superior, if merely in aims, to rights that are granted exclusively from tradition and past concessions, as is the case with "English" liberty, that are admittedly mutable. The feasibility of secession is questionable without some level of federation. Did the realization of human liberty in, say, Zimbabwe improve by Rhodesia's status as a colony? South Africa? There is no reason to assume that it would have been any different here.
    In what sense do you see the Bill of Rights as unassailable and immutable, unless just a theoretical sense?

    Now the divine law of justice itself, on which the principles behind the Bill of Rights are based, is unassailable and immutable. But this would be so regardless of how the boundaries around tax jurisdictions are drawn on the globe. The Bill of Rights themselves, on the other hand, are manmade laws that are no less susceptible to manipulations of politicians and judges than manmade English laws were. And if anything, I would posit that the very concept of common law we inherited from our British pedigree has a better philosophical underpinning in the unassailable and immutable divine law of justice than the constitutional amendments that were written and ratified by politicians we call the Bill of Rights do.

    Also, the colonies did have "some level of federation" when they broke from from Britain. They were joined together under the Articles of Confederation. And they didn't ratify the Constitution until well after their independence from Britain was already complete. Theoretically, they could have gone on existing without the creation of a powerful centralized federal government to rule over them, such as they created when they become the *United* States of America.

    However, I think British colonies in fact often had a great deal of liberty and independence. Consider Hong Kong. I think the American colonies, especially given the culture of their population, had potential to be relatively free as well, had they remained colonies, perhaps more free than what they very rapidly degraded into after they had replaced that one tyrant 3,000 miles away for the 3,000 tyrants one mile away. The enlightenment ideas that are enshrined in the founding documents didn't depend on those documents for their strength or validity.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-19-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    We've seen how a socialist country can scalp even a relatively free market. Seems that free markets, paradoxically, need to exclude the participation of socialist foreign governments.
    When have we seen that?

    And even to the extent that that does happen, I don't think it follows that we would benefit from keeping that socialist country poor, such that improvements in their economy would make the situation worse.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-19-2021 at 10:32 AM.

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