Never Give Up on Jesus's message of love. Never.

[Anti Federalist]

How do you propose to stop these "malicious men," BSWPaulsen? (Pre-emptive violence puts your ideology in the same realm as governments.)

It does not.

The clear message of political violence across the board is simple: "Do what we want, or we will hurt you".

The only person that has a pass on that concept, that can use it with moral authority, is the person who only wants one thing to be done:

Leave me alone.

To engage in violence to stop exterior forces from harming you, your loved ones or molesting your property is justified.

"There is a time for hate, and there is a time for war."

Tell me how hate and strife will help you accomplish your goals. (Or help anyone, for that matter!)

Hate is brought to us by our enemies.

Strife is caused by that conflict.

War decides who will rule, politics by other means.

[Anti Federalist]

I absolutely agree. I see posters here today that for years I've seen wish each other and all mankind peace on numerous occasions, now practically salivating to spill the blood of those they say can't wait to get a rope around their necks!

Such as?

[BSWPaulsen]

How do you propose to stop these "malicious men," BSWPaulsen? (Pre-emptive violence puts your ideology in the same realm as governments.)

Hanging them for their crimes works wonders.

You do when you forego your principles to stop it.

That does not even rise to the level of sophistry and is just flatly stupid. You do not become a Marxist by stopping Marxism.

"Tough guys" like to appear tough by disregarding simple -- yet important -- concepts like love.

"There is a time for hate, and there is a time for war."

Men, or what you are disparaging as "tough guys", love their families and hate those that would destroy them.

Tell me how hate and strife will help you accomplish your goals. (Or help anyone, for that matter!)

Hate helps motivate one toward the destruction of their enemies and enables perseverance in the presence of strife. Humanity would not be capable of hatred if it did not have a useful purpose to serve.

[Proph]

It does not.

The clear message of political violence across the board is simple: "Do what we want, or we will hurt you".

The only person that has a pass on that concept, that can use it with moral authority, is the person who only wants one thing to be done:

Leave me alone.

To engage in violence to stop exterior forces from harming you, your loved ones or molesting your property is justified.



Hate is brought to us by our enemies.

Strife is caused by that conflict.

War decides who will rule, politics by other means.

About the only thing you can control in this life is how you respond to whatever is thrown at you. (But, violence begets violence and exacerbates strife.)

God rules! (Quit waiting for some final apocalyptic war, and live your life.)

The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.

Will a day come when the race will detect the funniness of these juvenilities and laugh at them--and by laughing at them destroy them? For your race, in its poverty, has unquestionably one really effective weapon--laughter. Power, Money, Persuasion, Supplication, Persecution--these can lift at a colossal humbug,--push it a little-- crowd it a little--weaken it a little, century by century: but only Laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of Laughter nothing can stand.

[BSWPaulsen]

About the only thing you can control in this life is how you respond to whatever is thrown at you. (But, violence begets violence and exacerbates strife.)

Humans are fully capable of directly influencing exactly what gets "thrown at you". There is no requirement they lead a purely reactive life.

No, violence does not necessarily beget more violence. As human history demonstrates, war will exist among a people at one time and peace at another, and this renders your statement an objective falsehood.

[BSWPaulsen]

Taken from the reputation comment:

You talk about hanging people, and claim I'm the sophist? (How much disregard for human life do you have?)

You are a sophist due to your poor usage of logic. The fact you equate hanging people with sophistry indicates your grasp of logic is tenuous at best and nonexistent at worst.

I will not apologize for thinking hanging those that would harm my family is a good thing. Similarly, I would shoot home invaders. Deal with it.

[Proph]

Humans are fully capable of directly influencing exactly what gets "thrown at you". There is no requirement they lead a purely reactive life.

No, violence does not necessarily beget more violence. As human history demonstrates, war will exist among a people at one time and peace at another, and this renders your statement an objective falsehood.

At all times there is peace in some places and war in others. (I'd conjecture that those who seek peace are more peaceful!)

You're determined to continue in your conceit, unfortunately.

[belian78]

Bleating about truth while employing awful logic in defense of your cause is pathetic.



The only purpose a "true Christian" of your ilk serves is to end up persecuted and in an early grave at the hands of malicious men. Your kind of "true Christian" will also get your loved ones persecuted and killed at the hands of those same men due to your sheer ineffectiveness. Your tepid existence is sustained entirely by hard men not content to allow malicious men to do as they please due to some misbegotten and thoroughly dangerous interpretation of love.

Finally, those that are unwilling or incapable of dividing humanity based on their actions can lay claim to neither knowledge or wisdom. They are psychological eunuchs.

Firstly, you know nothing of me or my ilk so you can shut your trap on that front. Secondly, I don't consider myself a Christian I merely brought that into the conversation because many here consider themselves to be. And finally, do not mistake my call for love for passivity. Anyone that threatens my life or of one I love, they will not have a good day. That doesn't mean I won't regret it and hurt for the rest of my days for taking a light from this world, but in nature the way is to live.

[belian78]

About the only thing you can control in this life is how you respond to whatever is thrown at you. (But, violence begets violence and exacerbates strife.)

God rules! (Quit waiting for some final apocalyptic war, and live your life.)

This is just about the exact conclusions I have came to as well.

[BSWPaulsen]

At all times there is peace in some places and war in others. (I'd conjecture that those who seek peace are more peaceful!)

Your first statement does nothing at all to support your awful argument that violence begets violence.

Your conjecture is ignorant. Those who seek peace fight to defend it or die by the sword of those that are not peaceful.

[Proph]

Taken from the reputation comment:



You are a sophist due to your poor usage of logic. The fact you equate hanging people with sophistry indicates your grasp of logic is tenuous at best and nonexistent at worst.

I will not apologize for thinking hanging those that would harm my family is a good thing. Similarly, I would shoot home invaders. Deal with it.

I equate it with sophistry, because of the ease with which you say -- type -- it. (A lot of steps happen between now and your desired, stated goal; and I doubt you've thought much of it through at all, starting with messages like this.)

The people harming you believe they are helping. Hurting them won't help anyone, and will only cause more fear and hatred.

But, you don't care. (You're no better than they are! [No worse, either, but certainly no better!])

[Anti Federalist]

About the only thing you can control in this life is how you respond to whatever is thrown at you. (But, violence begets violence and exacerbates strife.)

God rules! (Quit waiting for some final apocalyptic war, and live your life.)

So, do nothing to those who oppress me, or wish me dead, and have the power and authority to do so, but offer them kind words and forgiveness.

Make no effort to confront tyranny but leave it all in God's hands to deal with.

That's why Christianity is losing followers and it's churches closing down daily and the only worldly battle it wishes to engage in is how to embrace and empower homosexuals and pedophiles.

[Anti Federalist]

I equate it with sophistry, because of the ease with which you say -- type -- it. (A lot of steps happen between now and your desired, stated goal; and I doubt you've thought much of it through at all, starting with messages like this.)

The people harming you believe they are helping. Hurting them won't help anyone, and will only cause more fear and hatred.

But, you don't care. (You're no better than they are! [No worse, either, but certainly no better!])

No, they do not believe that.

We are a cancer, a virus, a malignancy to be exterminated...that is them in their own words.

Even Christ whipped the money changers.

[Proph]

So, do nothing to those who oppress me, or wish me dead, and have the power and authority to do so, but offer them kind words and forgiveness.

Make no effort to confront tyranny but leave it all in God's hands to deal with.

That's why Christianity is losing followers and it's churches closing down daily and the only worldly battle it wishes to engage in is how to embrace and empower homosexuals and pedophiles.

Who said that? Don't use violence. (Except in [immediate] defense?]

Technology has granted more means than ever to peacefully retaliate -- if not outright avoid -- oppressors, yet there are still Luddites on forums like this legitimizing the very oppression they claim to want to stop with their calls for the gallows.

[BSWPaulsen]

Firstly, you know nothing of me or my ilk so you can shut your trap on that front.

You have revealed more than enough about your ilk with your statements. I am not going to be quiet when people like you are attempting to pass off categorical nonsense as truth.

Secondly, I don't consider myself a Christian I merely brought that into the conversation because many here consider themselves to be. And finally, do not mistake my call for love for passivity. Anyone that threatens my life or of one I love, they will not have a good day. That doesn't mean I won't regret it and hurt for the rest of my days for taking a light from this world, but in nature the way is to live.

Virtue signaling about the hurt and regret you would have over defending your own is disgusting.

[BSWPaulsen]

I equate it with sophistry, because of the ease with which you say -- type -- it. (A lot of steps happen between now and your desired, stated goal; and I doubt you've thought much of it through at all, starting with messages like this.)

That is not what sophistry is, and at this point it is clear you are either ignorant of what it constitutes or being willfully disingenuous.

The people harming you believe they are helping. Hurting them won't help anyone, and will only cause more fear and hatred.

You should never make the mistake of claiming to speak for others. You do not know what any of those individuals believe. The only thing there is to go by is their words and actions. If what they are doing is a problem for me, then it is a problem that must be dealt with regardless of their intentions.

Destroying the enemy does not cause more "fear and hatred". War is followed by peace.

But, you don't care. (You're no better than they are! [No worse, either, but certainly no better!])

I have no interest in equivocating myself with them. That is a pointless endeavor best left to impotent charlatans slated for destruction.

[Proph]

No, they do not believe that.

We are a cancer, a virus, a malignancy to be exterminated...that is them in their own words.

Even Christ whipped the money changers.

The heart of the problem is collectivism. (And here, I always thought it was taxation!)

You're worried about the identity politics about go to into full swing with Biden's presidency. (Don't use Theire currency! [And don't make prose-persecution easy by posting inflammatory rhetoric about hanging politicians!])

Threats don't benefit anyone, and if you're guilty of the same actions, then you won't have the high-ground when they do it to you again.

[BSWPaulsen]

Threats don't benefit anyone, and if you're guilty of the same actions, then you won't have the high-ground when they do it to you again.

Oh hell. This is too rich.

Hey, Anti Federalist, how's that moral superiority been working out for us to this point?

[Proph]

That is not what sophistry is, and at this point it is clear you are either ignorant of what it constitutes or being willfully disingenuous.



You should never make the mistake of claiming to speak for others. You do not know what any of those individuals believe. The only thing there is to go by is their words and actions. If what they are doing is a problem for me, then it is a problem that must be dealt with regardless of their intentions.

Destroying the enemy does not cause more "fear and hatred". War is followed by peace.



I have no interest in equivocating myself with them. That is a pointless endeavor best left to impotent charlatans slated for destruction.

Sophists are less dangerous than you, if you really believe what you write.

There will always be war, only the enemy changes.

Glad you found a friend, though! (Keep each other out of trouble.)

[BSWPaulsen]

Sophists are less dangerous than you, if you really believe what you write.

Sophists are not dangerous on account of the falsehoods they perpetuate, and the truth is often dangerous, so I will take that as a compliment.

There will always be war, only the enemy changes.

Irrelevant. Those individuals experiencing war change over time and invalidates your earlier falsehood about violence begetting more violence.

[tfurrh]

I wish Sola Fide could've seen this thread....then derailed it.

[tfurrh]

Right after Jesus tells us to love enemies he also says not to cast pearls before swine. And all that was after first saying repent.

[phill4paul]

I wish Sola Fide could've seen this thread....then derailed it.

Bwahahaha!

[oyarde]

I wish Sola Fide could've seen this thread....then derailed it.

Ya , I'm taking Kiwi for my foxhole . Danke gets Sola .

[oyarde]

Right after Jesus tells us to love enemies he also says not to cast pearls before swine. And all that was after first saying repent.

I just take that as to repent a little after I get rid of my enemies . Seems reasonable enough .

[phill4paul]

Onward to Valhalla!

[pcosmar]

Onward to Valhalla!

I already live with two women that keep me like a pet..

Bring it.

[phill4paul]

I already live with two women that keep me like a pet..

Bring it.

A much needed LMAO!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to pcosmar again.

[Proph]

Hanging them for their crimes works wonders.

You should never make the mistake of claiming to speak for others. You do not know what any of those individuals believe. The only thing there is to go by is their words and actions. If what they are doing is a problem for me, then it is a problem that must be dealt with regardless of their intentions.

Presumably, you live alone? I mean, otherwise, you're essentially speaking for them. If you encourage the gallows -- threatening people -- are you responsible for any retaliation suffered by those around you for your words? ("Of course not! They started it!" says the sophist.)

That does not even rise to the level of sophistry and is just flatly stupid. You do not become a Marxist by stopping Marxism.

You become a Marxist when you use Marxist means to achieve your goal. (In this case, offensive, retaliatory -- preemptive -- violence.)

Men, or what you are disparaging as "tough guys", love their families and hate those that would destroy them.

Hate helps motivate one toward the destruction of their enemies and enables perseverance in the presence of strife. Humanity would not be capable of hatred if it did not have a useful purpose to serve.

"Tough guys" encourage violence. (Because they can handle it, everyone else can too!)

How does threatening anyone help, rather than exacerbate? (It's easy to denigrate ignorant opposition as "enemies," but if they believe their cause is righteous, your hatred serves as fuel.)

That is not what sophistry is, and at this point it is clear you are either ignorant of what it constitutes or being willfully disingenuous.

Sophists often end up exchanging positions by the end of the discussion. (You, BSWPaulsen, seem intent on violence!)

Destroying the enemy does not cause more "fear and hatred". War is followed by peace.

You become "the enemy." (And, the peace is only temporary!)

I have no interest in equivocating myself with them. That is a pointless endeavor best left to impotent charlatans slated for destruction.

That's the great hypocrisy though, isn't it? (You become what you hate.)

Sophists are not dangerous on account of the falsehoods they perpetuate, and the truth is often dangerous, so I will take that as a compliment.

Lies are often more dangerous, and I don't trust anyone trumpeting themselves as such.

Irrelevant. Those individuals experiencing war change over time and invalidates your earlier falsehood about violence begetting more violence.

Has war changed you? (Then, what's your excuse?)

Those experiencing war probably just want peace, regardless of which tyrant wins. (But, no! It has to be your sandbox for justice!)

[BSWPaulsen]

Presumably, you live alone? I mean, otherwise, you're essentially speaking for them. If you encourage the gallows -- threatening people -- are you responsible for any retaliation suffered by those around you for your words? ("Of course not! They started it!" says the sophist.)

Threatening the gallows in response to crimes committed and equivocating it with random violence against the people I live with is the domain of the intellectually bankrupt.

You become a Marxist when you use Marxist means to achieve your goal. (In this case, offensive, retaliatory -- preemptive -- violence.)

In one line you have managed to be wrong twice. Firstly, you become a Marxist when you adopt it as your personal philosophy, so you are wrong on that front. Secondly, retaliatory violence does not belong in the same category as offensive or preemptive violence.

"Tough guys" encourage violence. (Because they can handle it, everyone else can too!)

"Tough guys" use violence when it is appropriate to the occasion at hand.

How does threatening anyone help, rather than exacerbate? (It's easy to denigrate ignorant opposition as "enemies," but if they believe their cause is righteous, your hatred serves as fuel.)

Diametrically opposed ideologies typically come to violence. It does not matter whether rhetoric fuels their side or not.

Sophists often end up exchanging positions by the end of the discussion. (You, BSWPaulsen, seem intent on violence!)

No position of mine has changed, and you still appear to be wholly ignorant of what sophistry is and is not.

You become "the enemy." (And, the peace is only temporary!)

No, you do not become "the enemy" when the war is over. That is categorically false and wholly ignorant of human history.

That's the great hypocrisy though, isn't it? (You become what you hate.)

As has been discussed previously, the idea that you become what you hate is completely and demonstrably false.

Lies are often more dangerous, and I don't trust anyone trumpeting themselves as such.

Good for you.

Has war changed you? (Then, what's your excuse?)

Those experiencing war probably just want peace, regardless of which tyrant wins. (But, no! It has to be your sandbox for justice!)

If peace if the most important thing to a person, then they deserve every form of tyranny they encounter.